7 ms·

In the 1990s, even as a software developer, I never answered emails after working hours. Why? Because we didn’t have access to the office mail server outside th

by ttul 3y ago

In the 1990s, even as a software developer, I never answered emails after working hours. Why? Because we didn’t have access to the office mail server outside the office. It was physically impossible to work from home. Add to this the fact that I didn’t have a cell phone or a pager, so when I left the office, nobody could get in touch with me even if they wanted to. On reflection, the separation of home and work was so natural that everyone took it for granted. Time moved more slowly. You felt more free because you could just disappear for an hour by going for a drive or a walk. We don’t realize what we have lost.

readthenotes1 3y ago
In the late '80s, my coworkers would work at night by answering emails (proprietary network) and looking through code on hardware supplied by the employer.
ghaff 3y ago
There's a flip side to that though. It also meant that, when I was "in the office," I pretty much needed to be IN THE OFFICE. I couldn't really disappear during the workday on a regular workday by going for a walk or being available at home for this that or the other thing without making specific arrangements. I had the flexibility to do that from time to time but it wasn't a casual I'll be in my home office while the contractor is doing stuff. It's a tradeoff but, for me, not a bad one overall. No one expects me to jump into action at 9 at night but if I'm watching the TV and can solve someone's problem in 5 minutes I can do so--if I feel like it.
- commandlinefan 3y ago
  > when I was "in the office," I pretty much needed to be IN THE OFFICE Well, we're getting back to that anyway... they're pretty much demanding that we all drive 45 minutes to sit at a hoteling spot that we reserved ahead of time in a noisy open office so that we can get on zoom calls with our remote coworkers all day (and be asked to "please mute because your background noise is very distracting") - and then drive home and still be available "after hours". Glad I spent years of my life getting an advanced degree for this, I guess.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Well, some people are. I've just gone into the office when it made sense for a couple decades now. It does make sense to go in most days for people doing certain types of work, e.g. when they need access to equipment, but one of the (few) positive outcomes to the pandemic that I see is that a lot of routine meetings now default to virtual at least in my circles.
- sheepybloke 3y ago
  I agree. I feel a lot more OK to take time to run errands or grab lunch offsite because I know if someone needs me, I can just answer on Slack. Similarly, I can work from a coffee shop or other location and know that they can reach me if needed.
lumost 3y ago
I'm honestly surprised that more companies haven't invested in broader vacation policies. My experience has been that the constant "on" state wears you down. The only way to get to "off" is to be OOTO officially for a week+. Add in parental responsibilities and you really don't have any headspace for yourself. Would love to have 5-8 weeks per year, that would let me take at least 1 week's worth of time per quarter to recharge from the constant 24/7 rush.
- ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
  >Add in parental responsibilities Out of curiosity, how many of your coworkers have kids? I have 3, and I've always found it a bit ominous that even when I'm on large teams (8+) I'm typically still the only person with kids. So far: 1. job 1, team of 8, only 1 other IC had kids 2. job 2, team of 10, nobody else had kids 3. current job, team of 8, nobody else has kids. If you expand it to the suborganization we're in, you get ~16 people and only one other person has kids. And it's not like these teams are mostly college new grads or anything, it's usually people like me in their 30's. I always wonder how much of a disadvantage it is that other people get to clock out of work, enjoy an evening, sleep through the night, and then wake up and go to work. Whereas a parent is going to clock out of work and clock in to parenting, and then when it's kid bedtime, you finally get 2-3 hours to fit in personal time that's usually still not "you" time but is you spending time with your partner. I'd never trade my kids for my career, and I find the time I spend with them incredibly fulfilling, but it's definitely extra load. And I do depend on being good at my job to help feed them and stuff. And I did opt into this, so it's hard to say it's "unfair". But I feel like our society doesn't need more reasons not to have kids given fertility is already below replacement rate.
  - bbbobbb 3y ago
    Fertility is definitely not below replacement rate. Maybe in western countries. You find it hard to say it's unfair but you seem to hint to it. I don't think it is in the slightest. Also you sound like a software developer from the US so you likely can afford to work say 80% and "recoup" some of that free time.
nonameiguess 3y ago
It's still like this in some limited cases. My brother-in-law is a glazier. He clearly needs to be on-site to do this. Work can't follow him home. My wife works in software just like I do, but she's worked exclusively on classified projects for 20 years, so work can't follow her home because she can't legally receive any of the relevant data at home. Work phone and work e-mail are on airgapped networks not accessible from home.

by ttul 3y ago

readthenotes1 3y ago

In the late '80s, my coworkers would work at night by answering emails (proprietary network) and looking through code on hardware supplied by the employer.

ghaff 3y ago

There's a flip side to that though. It also meant that, when I was "in the office," I pretty much needed to be IN THE OFFICE. I couldn't really disappear during the workday on a regular workday by going for a walk or being available at home for this that or the other thing without making specific arrangements. I had the flexibility to do that from time to time but it wasn't a casual I'll be in my home office while the contractor is doing stuff. It's a tradeoff but, for me, not a bad one overall. No one expects me to jump into action at 9 at night but if I'm watching the TV and can solve someone's problem in 5 minutes I can do so--if I feel like it.

commandlinefan 3y ago
> when I was "in the office," I pretty much needed to be IN THE OFFICE Well, we're getting back to that anyway... they're pretty much demanding that we all drive 45 minutes to sit at a hoteling spot that we reserved ahead of time in a noisy open office so that we can get on zoom calls with our remote coworkers all day (and be asked to "please mute because your background noise is very distracting") - and then drive home and still be available "after hours". Glad I spent years of my life getting an advanced degree for this, I guess.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Well, some people are. I've just gone into the office when it made sense for a couple decades now. It does make sense to go in most days for people doing certain types of work, e.g. when they need access to equipment, but one of the (few) positive outcomes to the pandemic that I see is that a lot of routine meetings now default to virtual at least in my circles.
sheepybloke 3y ago
I agree. I feel a lot more OK to take time to run errands or grab lunch offsite because I know if someone needs me, I can just answer on Slack. Similarly, I can work from a coffee shop or other location and know that they can reach me if needed.

lumost 3y ago

I'm honestly surprised that more companies haven't invested in broader vacation policies. My experience has been that the constant "on" state wears you down. The only way to get to "off" is to be OOTO officially for a week+. Add in parental responsibilities and you really don't have any headspace for yourself. Would love to have 5-8 weeks per year, that would let me take at least 1 week's worth of time per quarter to recharge from the constant 24/7 rush.

ye-olde-sysrq 3y ago
>Add in parental responsibilities Out of curiosity, how many of your coworkers have kids? I have 3, and I've always found it a bit ominous that even when I'm on large teams (8+) I'm typically still the only person with kids. So far: 1. job 1, team of 8, only 1 other IC had kids 2. job 2, team of 10, nobody else had kids 3. current job, team of 8, nobody else has kids. If you expand it to the suborganization we're in, you get ~16 people and only one other person has kids. And it's not like these teams are mostly college new grads or anything, it's usually people like me in their 30's. I always wonder how much of a disadvantage it is that other people get to clock out of work, enjoy an evening, sleep through the night, and then wake up and go to work. Whereas a parent is going to clock out of work and clock in to parenting, and then when it's kid bedtime, you finally get 2-3 hours to fit in personal time that's usually still not "you" time but is you spending time with your partner. I'd never trade my kids for my career, and I find the time I spend with them incredibly fulfilling, but it's definitely extra load. And I do depend on being good at my job to help feed them and stuff. And I did opt into this, so it's hard to say it's "unfair". But I feel like our society doesn't need more reasons not to have kids given fertility is already below replacement rate.
- bbbobbb 3y ago
  Fertility is definitely not below replacement rate. Maybe in western countries. You find it hard to say it's unfair but you seem to hint to it. I don't think it is in the slightest. Also you sound like a software developer from the US so you likely can afford to work say 80% and "recoup" some of that free time.

nonameiguess 3y ago

It's still like this in some limited cases. My brother-in-law is a glazier. He clearly needs to be on-site to do this. Work can't follow him home. My wife works in software just like I do, but she's worked exclusively on classified projects for 20 years, so work can't follow her home because she can't legally receive any of the relevant data at home. Work phone and work e-mail are on airgapped networks not accessible from home.