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>Don't rely on proprietary infrastructure you have no control over for essential public functionality. This. Love him or hate him, it doesn't matter- surely ev
by damnesian 3y ago
>Don't rely on proprietary infrastructure you have no control over for essential public functionality.
This. Love him or hate him, it doesn't matter- surely everyone can now agree Musk's personal, totally idiosyncratic treatment of the platform has rendered it completely useless for anything beyond pure vanity.
A public-owned twitter-type platform is the answer, imho.
We have publicly funded tv and radio- I think they have done a great job for what they are- what kid hasn't been improved by exposure to Mr. Rogers or Sesame Street?- but we live online now. It's time for a publicly-owned messaging system, whether that be federated or otherwise.
- tedivm 3y agoI publicly owned twitter platform is complicated and presents a lot of problems. I think the federated model has a lot of appeal here, as it allows governments to broadcast alerts out without requiring them to take on a large platform (and moderation responsibilities, which are really complicated for a government).
- zerodensity 3y agoWhat problems do you see with a publicly owned twitter variant?
- my123 3y agoIn an international world, which govt should operate it becomes a complicated matter.
- ebiester 3y agoEach government should own one. It doesn't have to be federated to be useful.
- Chabsff 3y agoA large social platform simply cannot survive without constant moderation that goes beyond strict application of the law. You need some form of community standards in place. A government agency governing what is acceptable speech is a bad idea.
- flir 3y agoSounds like it would work in pretty much every country except America.
- imwillofficial 3y agoAh yes, the world, long known for its lockstep dance of harmony.
- intrasight 3y agoWhy would such a twitter variant need moderation? We're talking about a government notification system. Only people posting would be government officials.
- Chabsff 3y agoA pure one-way notification system is not a "twitter variant", but a completely different beast altogether. The draw of the twitter-like approach is that the government messages are a portion of an existing stream of communication that people are already using/consuming.
- intrasight 3y agoThe article is about governments using twitter to send notifications. Lots - perhaps most - use twitter exclusively this way.
- viraptor 3y agoIf you're saying Twitter variant, that implies a social network using text+image communication. If you want a notification system instead, there are much better and usable ways to implement that. See https://www.emergency.vic.gov.au/respond/ https://www.emergency.vic.gov.au/respond/ for example.
- johaugum 3y ago> We're talking about a government notification system. This exists, and is called Wireless Emergency Alerts. Every phone sold in the U.S. today supports this out of the box.
- ncallaway 3y agoThe problem where a platform that is truly bound by the first amendment would lose in the marketplace, because most people don’t want to be on a platform where Nazis can post as much as they want. Platforms that censor are going to win in the marketplace, because that’s what most people want in a discussion platform.
- ineedasername 3y agoI don't see any social network as a good answer in the context of this story. What's needed is robust public alert & notification infrastructure.
- ryukafalz 3y agoYeah, I think federated is the right answer. You don't need to run a public platform, but you can run the infrastructure for government staff and announcements while still reaching the broader network.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoOnce a week my phone buzzes with some sort of child-alert, abduction and/or storm warnings. How is what's needed in this case any different?
- delecti 3y agoThose are very annoying and usually useless, so many people turn them off (everyone I know does). And if you miss one for any of the many reasons that could occur in an emergency, I wouldn't know where to go to seek out those alerts.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoIt's not possible to turn off alerts of the highest authority, "Presidential alerts", without turning off the phone. All basemodem and smartphone manufacturers selling in North America hardcode this into the black box part of the firmware. (Which is part of the approval process and why you'll never be able to buy a 'fully unlocked' phone.) For example in Ontario, every alert is sent out at this authority.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoSo for that we blame...Twitter?
- delecti 3y agoWhere in my comment did I mention twitter, or imply anything about it? I was just saying that the automated phone alerts aren't a great fit for something like wildfire evacuation instructions. At the very least they shouldn't be the only avenue for that information. Twitter was fantastic for that kind of thing though.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoYou didn't. But the topic is public notifications and Twitter. You seemed to imply the alternative to Twitter isn't effective, within a thread that starts with Twitter isn't effective.
- londons_explore 3y agoMost governments already have that... it's called a website. Turns out they used twitter because that's where the users were.
- ghaff 3y agoPretty much. So you use a website and for people who don't use it that's their problem. My town also (used to have?) has an automatic phone system but I don't really pick up random calls and don't have a landline now so that's useless.
- ineedasername 3y ago>for people who don't use it that's their problem You're evacuating, driving along a highway, and during the course of your trip the available evacuation routes change. A website is useless here. The context of the conversation is emergency situations, that has to be taken into account when thinking about the required public notification infrastructure.
- ghaff 3y agoBut what is reliably useful at that point? Radio maybe? I'm not sure how Twitter or a Twitter clone is any more useful than a website. Phone alerts are probably the best choice at that point assuming you don't have them turned off.
- bombcar 3y agoTwitter can’t be better than a website because Twitter IS a website! What Twitter was is better than Facebook, the main other governmental alert platform.
- amrocha 3y agoHow is it useless? You're in traffic, you check Twitter on your phone, you change your plans. I can't subscribe to an RSS feed on a phone by default
- wizofaus 3y agoSurely SMS is more than sufficient as an emergency broadcast system. Which is one reason the increasing number of SMS spam/phishing messages is more than just a nuisance, it's seriously eroding trust in the system. I know people now that basically assume every SMS not from a known contact is spam. Governments should have a vested interest in actually doing something concrete to tackle it, I'm not even sure why it's so hard to solve.
- seventhson 3y agoWe already have an emergency messaging system called Amber Alert. Just generalize that infrastructure a bit and you're halfway there.
- zodester 3y ago+1, this system should be improved with a topic based subscription so individuals can opt-in/out of lower level alerts, but keep the ability for local governments to blast everyone in an area for emergencies
- namibj 3y agoThat's already the case.
- criddell 3y agoI really hope they don't do this. I already turned off those alerts because there are too many of them.
- irrational 3y agoWhy are so many children being abducted where you live?
- criddell 3y agoDo you know of a better source for adrenochrome?
- macksd 3y agoIn some places the system is overused and alerts get issued in custody disputes, claims of abuse, etc. It doesn't always mean abducted by a predator or stranger and that's part of the problem.
- gottorf 3y ago> It doesn't always mean abducted by a predator or stranger The overwhelming majority -- over 90% -- of children being abducted are taken by family[0], usually as a part of a custody dispute. [0]: https://safeatlast.co/blog/child-abduction-statistics/ https://safeatlast.co/blog/child-abduction-statistics/
- criddell 3y ago> A public-owned twitter-type platform is the answer, imho. I don't think this could work. Private companies like Twitter can enforce limitations on content that the a government run platform couldn't enforce due to the first amendment.
- kdmccormick 3y agoCan't speak for GP, but when I read that, I imagined a platform exclusively for official communications from government and municipal officials. The .gov / .gov.xx version of Twitter, if you will. If it federated with Mastadon (or was a Mastadon instance) then others could seamlessly pull those official comms into their feed without having to ever navigate to the platform. Or, for those of us that don't care to have a centralized feed, we could just go to the instance directly for government comms. No more of this "get nagged by twitter ads while I try to read updates from my local government".
- ghaff 3y agoAnd I wouldn't bother to have such a site active on my laptop or phone any more than I would a website absent some emergency--in which case the website works as well as anything. And the government has no reliable way to push info out to me nor do I want it to have same--though maybe that's a US thing.
- seszett 3y agoWell for now I don't bother having Twitter open on my laptop just in case my government would want to tell me something, so I don't see how this would be much different. The main difference I see though is that since Mastodon provides RSS feeds, I could at least follow the feed of my country's emergency services without needing a specialised app.
- ghaff 3y agoRSS feeds are definitely an alternative but now you've covered ~1% (if that) of the population. I used to be an avid RSS consumer and even I don't really use it much any longer.
- politician 3y agoWhich public though? Twitter may be a private company, but it has an international presence. A publicly-owned system would have to be owned by the public of a particular country or state, leading to problems with differences between who pays and who benefits.
- pwndByDeath 3y agoFunny I thought twitter was just an exhibitionism platform from the first day. My suggestion is to establish a tweeters anonymous?
- londons_explore 3y ago> surely everyone can now agree Musk's [...] treatment of the platform has rendered it completely useless [...]. I haven't actually noticed much change there. Sure, people seem to be angry about all kinds of things, but that's the normal over on twitter. The core functionality of 'post tweet' and 'see tweets others have posted' seems unaffected for me and every user I follow. I don't really see what everyone is angry about. "User XYZ did X controversial action and got banned for it" is of no interest to me, partly because I am not interested in User XYZ, and partly because the sorts of things I use twitter for don't revolve around seeing the spread of whatever the next activist thing is.
- mynameisvlad 3y agoDid you even bother to read the article? The one which describes exactly what the problem is? Just because you haven’t hit the limit does not mean the limit does not exist nor that it’s harming the platform.
- londons_explore 3y agoI kinda like there being a limit. I don't follow a user to be able to spam me with a million tweets. If you have more than ~10 things to say in a day, then sign up for another account and put links - ie. "CaliGov: wildfires around San Francisco. For more info follow @CaliWildfires2023". Obviously there should be some UI to show you when you're getting near the limit, but I expect thats coming.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago> I don't follow a user to be able to spam me with a million tweets. Sure, but this is not your run-of-the-mill user. This is essentially an emergency broadcast service. Most people would follow the account with the desire to see "a million tweets" if those are relevant to the thing they are broadcasting. In fact, the absence of such tweets due to a limit is probably more harmful than the number of tweets that did go out. > If you have more than ~10 things to say in a day, then sign up for another account and put links - ie. "CaliGov: wildfires around San Francisco. For more info follow @CaliWildfires2023". That's absurd and spammy for no reason other than to get around a restriction that shouldn't exist for these accounts. And would hit the exact same limits. It's not like they used up their tweets spamming about irrelevant details. > Obviously there should be some UI to show you when you're getting near the limit, but I expect thats coming. That's putting a lot of hope into promises that haven't even been made.
- MSFT_Edging 3y agoMusk essentially got upset that everyone on twitter didn't love him, so he bought the toy and broke it so others couldn't play with it. His changes to the site were optimized for maximum praise for himself. He destroyed the verification system that was intended to avoid public figures from being impersonated. Now it's simply people who have bad posts, now getting more attention to their bad posts. Hateful individuals can now pay 8 dollars to prioritize their hateful posts under their targets' tweets. Terrible, awful, spoiled little man.
- jamal-kumar 3y agoI think everyone is looking forward to Mark absolutely pulverizing him. Even friends I talk to who don't even care about or are involved in tech want to see this happen. Weird thing to challenge a guy who's been training way hard for a few years now to an actual fight.
- sublinear 3y ago> Weird thing to challenge a guy who's been training way hard for a few years now to an actual fight. Musk has a substantial physical advantage over Zuckerberg that training can't overcome. If they were professional fighters they wouldn't even be in the same class.
- ryanwaggoner 3y agoYes, if they were both professionals, but they aren’t, so training can absolutely overcome the differences between them. Or do you really think no one has ever beaten a less skilled fighter who weighed 35 pounds more?
- throw47474777j 3y ago> that training can't overcome. This can't be a serious claim.
- MSFT_Edging 3y agoOnly so much a physical size can do when you basically sit around all day retweeting memes. I've seen enough street fight videos to know a small guy with training can easily take down a big guy with hubris.
- drewcoo 3y ago> what kid hasn't been improved by exposure to Mr. Rogers or Sesame Street? Mister Rogers is dead. Sesame Street (CTW) is now a company that markets toys to kids, the same behavior that was alarming when the culprits were Transformers and G.I. Joe back in the 80s. Today we also have a largely corporate-captured government. The trend is to privatize everything, allegedly because of "efficiency." However rose-tinted your view of history is, this ain't then.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago> Mister Rogers is dead. I think that's a matter of perpsective, considering that Mr. Rogers was a faithful Presbyterian minister. Mr. Rogers was like the father I didn't have, and he changed me profoundly in my childhood by his direct and candid engagement with the camera, as if I really was a special person that he deeply cared about (and it was true.) Mr. Rogers left a legacy that continues to change me and other people, especially those of us who grew up under his wing. There are lovely films made, and some of my favorite YouTubers love to sing his songs. I miss him, and he's still very much alive in our hearts, and in the miracle of television recordings. https://youtu.be/YIV9E2bUS5M https://youtu.be/YIV9E2bUS5M
- zodester 3y agoReliable and fast push notifications from trusted accounts are the critical piece of infrastructure that needs a public option. Something less than the existing emergency alert systems that allows for individuals to subscribe to and is easier for local governments to onboard to.
- MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago> surely everyone can now agree Musk's personal, totally idiosyncratic treatment of the platform has rendered it completely useless for anything beyond pure vanity We can? Functionally none of the controversial changes have been any inconvenience to me. It's been more of a self-fulfilling prophecy as far as I can tell: people declare each change to be the end of Twitter, and the resulting firestorm of tweets about Twitter's changes is actually what degrades the experience of using the product.
- amrocha 3y agoThis article is literally about a government agency that couldn't communicate emergency fire evacuation because they were rate limited, due to the idiotic changes made by musk. That can only mean Twitter can't be relied on for anything other than vanity.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago[dead]