8 ms·

The actual benchmark: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/spectralnorm.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/ben

The actual benchmark: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/spectralnorm.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... EDIT: fwiw, classic Fortran is twice as fast as java :P As is Rust, but that's less funny to me

zelphirkalt 3y ago
Interesting, what is "Chapel"? Will need to look that up. EDIT: seems to be https://chapel-lang.org/ https://chapel-lang.org/
- yread 3y ago
  It is very fast and very memory efficient apparently
thumbuddy 3y ago
Fortran is a beast. People crap on it all the time yet use it often millions of times a day without realizing it.
- chii 3y ago
  > People crap on it all the time only clueless people looking for clout online!
- skissane 3y ago
  > Fortran is a beast. People crap on it all the time I think most of the people who "crap on" Fortran, when they say "Fortran", mean FORTRAN 77, not Fortran 2018
- smcl 3y ago
  I don't think Fortran gets beaten up that much, it's just sort of ... ignored
  - Xenoamorphous 3y ago
    There are only two kinds of languages...
- ilyt 3y ago
  use in what ? I severely doubt anything I do touches fortran millions times a day unless it's google search that runs on it.
  - is_true 3y ago
    Your weather report
    - ilyt 3y ago
      I don't use that million times a day. Maybe once a week
  - dylanowen 3y ago
    The banking system.
    - colejohnson66 3y ago
      I thought banks used COBOL?
      - dylanowen 3y ago
        I bet you're right and that I'm misremembering. I learned about it in the context of fronting mainframes with graphql so I wasn't thinking too much about the backend language.
      - skissane 3y ago
        > I thought banks used COBOL? Banks have all kinds of random legacy crap written in all kinds of random languages. While COBOL is a lot more common, I guarantee you there are plenty of banks with bits of Fortran in their code bases. It is particularly found in older code for economic modelling, etc Back in the old days, a lot of apps were written in Fortran that would never be written in that today. I used to work for a university where the application used to determine whether a student had met the graduation requirements for their degree was written in Fortran. Why Fortran? It was a manual process, then one of the professors offered to automate it for them, and he wrote the app in Fortran, because that was the language he was most comfortable with. And 30 years later they were still running it (although they finally replaced it with a COTS package when I worked there) I once worked with an insurance company for whom a key business application was written in Turbo Pascal for DOS. They wrote it back in the 1980s when everyone had DOS machines. By the 2010s they were still running it in a VM. For all I know they are still doing that today
- xioxox 3y ago
  As a Fortran user, it's pretty awful for string handling. It's fine for numerics. However, there's a lack of libraries for non-numeric stuff (e.g. data structures). The free compilers are buggy, too.
hmaarrfk 3y ago
Thanks for this link. They also seemed to have avoided libraries like numpy. In my mind, python made it possible to hardware optimize with libraries like numpy quite easily. Avoiding it is a mistake. I'll try to see if I have time to play the game myself and throw my attempt in there.
- davidgrenier 3y ago
  But isn't what makes numpy efficient written in C?
  - phoe-krk 3y ago
    Everything that makes Python efficient is written in C or C++ or the like. Python in these situations is just a glue language (with an optional interactive layer) that makes using these libraries more feasible.
  - btschaegg 3y ago
    Well, the Java source uses threads. Guess how that's implemented. FWIW if python provides an abstraction that keeps the code readable while keeping the efficiencies of C, I think that should count for python, not against it.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      I mean.. threads are implemented by the OS, I don’t really see the equivalency here.
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  If your web service runs with numpy, excellent.
  - prirun 3y ago
    A web service is not typically compute-bound, so it's doubtful a Python web app is going to use 38x more energy than a Java web app.
igouy 3y ago
No, this is "the actual benchmark" — "Source: Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages, SLE’17" and google finds — https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/paperSLE.pdf https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/pap...

zelphirkalt 3y ago

Interesting, what is "Chapel"? Will need to look that up. EDIT: seems to be https://chapel-lang.org/ https://chapel-lang.org/

yread 3y ago
It is very fast and very memory efficient apparently

thumbuddy 3y ago

Fortran is a beast. People crap on it all the time yet use it often millions of times a day without realizing it.

chii 3y ago
> People crap on it all the time only clueless people looking for clout online!
skissane 3y ago
> Fortran is a beast. People crap on it all the time I think most of the people who "crap on" Fortran, when they say "Fortran", mean FORTRAN 77, not Fortran 2018
smcl 3y ago
I don't think Fortran gets beaten up that much, it's just sort of ... ignored
- Xenoamorphous 3y ago
  There are only two kinds of languages...
ilyt 3y ago
use in what ? I severely doubt anything I do touches fortran millions times a day unless it's google search that runs on it.
- is_true 3y ago
  Your weather report
  - ilyt 3y ago
    I don't use that million times a day. Maybe once a week
- dylanowen 3y ago
  The banking system.
  - colejohnson66 3y ago
    I thought banks used COBOL?
    - dylanowen 3y ago
      I bet you're right and that I'm misremembering. I learned about it in the context of fronting mainframes with graphql so I wasn't thinking too much about the backend language.
    - skissane 3y ago
      > I thought banks used COBOL? Banks have all kinds of random legacy crap written in all kinds of random languages. While COBOL is a lot more common, I guarantee you there are plenty of banks with bits of Fortran in their code bases. It is particularly found in older code for economic modelling, etc Back in the old days, a lot of apps were written in Fortran that would never be written in that today. I used to work for a university where the application used to determine whether a student had met the graduation requirements for their degree was written in Fortran. Why Fortran? It was a manual process, then one of the professors offered to automate it for them, and he wrote the app in Fortran, because that was the language he was most comfortable with. And 30 years later they were still running it (although they finally replaced it with a COTS package when I worked there) I once worked with an insurance company for whom a key business application was written in Turbo Pascal for DOS. They wrote it back in the 1980s when everyone had DOS machines. By the 2010s they were still running it in a VM. For all I know they are still doing that today
xioxox 3y ago
As a Fortran user, it's pretty awful for string handling. It's fine for numerics. However, there's a lack of libraries for non-numeric stuff (e.g. data structures). The free compilers are buggy, too.

hmaarrfk 3y ago

Thanks for this link. They also seemed to have avoided libraries like numpy. In my mind, python made it possible to hardware optimize with libraries like numpy quite easily. Avoiding it is a mistake. I'll try to see if I have time to play the game myself and throw my attempt in there.

davidgrenier 3y ago
But isn't what makes numpy efficient written in C?
- phoe-krk 3y ago
  Everything that makes Python efficient is written in C or C++ or the like. Python in these situations is just a glue language (with an optional interactive layer) that makes using these libraries more feasible.
- btschaegg 3y ago
  Well, the Java source uses threads. Guess how that's implemented. FWIW if python provides an abstraction that keeps the code readable while keeping the efficiencies of C, I think that should count for python, not against it.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    I mean.. threads are implemented by the OS, I don’t really see the equivalency here.
KingOfCoders 3y ago
If your web service runs with numpy, excellent.
- prirun 3y ago
  A web service is not typically compute-bound, so it's doubtful a Python web app is going to use 38x more energy than a Java web app.

igouy 3y ago

No, this is "the actual benchmark" — "Source: Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages, SLE’17" and google finds — https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/paperSLE.pdf https://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/pap...