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Thunderbird 115 “Supernova”
- voytec 3y ago"Thunderbird 115" [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113 - 567p, 339c, 3d ago
- kuon 3y agoIs caldav and cardav native yet?
- laweijfmvo 3y agoor Exchange support?
- corndoge 3y agoI've been using caldav and carddav in Thunderbird for over a year, and I don't believe I installed any plugins for it - I'm tempted to say yes? What prompts the question?
- kuon 3y agoLast time I tried I had to install external address book extension and calendar and it did not integrate that well (auto completion not working properly...).
- mxuribe 3y agoSo, i just nuked and paved my current machine, and just before i did i know for a fact that caldav worked flawlessly on Thunderbird version 91...And, CardDav? Meh, not so great. And neither caldav nor carddav required me to add/install any extensions; so, really, i see it as progress. As soon as i'm done with other elements of my new machine install here, i will see how a newer version of thunderbird handles caldav and cardav...But, my point is, at least caldav used to work really, really nicely and smoothly on older versions of thunderbird. (Caveat: this is with Zoho as calendar/caldav provider...so no idea about trying to use Google calendar or other cal. providers.)
- dsissitka 3y agoSome more discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113
- johnea 3y agoOh man... What have they f'kd up this time 8-/ I think we can count out expecting all IMAP folders to automatically download...
- softirq 3y agoEh, just going to stick with mutt.
- johnea 3y agoI've considered it. What do you use for IMAP download?
- SoftTalker 3y agoI use fetchmail, and I use notmuch for indexing my mail.
- johnea 3y agoI'm familiar w/ fetchmail, but notmuch is new to me. Thanks for the details SoftTalker!
- username135 3y agoI'm digging Brave on mobile. I really like the simplified view they offer when you go to a site. It removes all the noise and just lets you read content.
- jerrysievert 3y agoIsn’t brave a browser vs thunderbird being an email client?
- Bawoosette 3y agoTo be fair, I associate Brave more with its search engine than its browser, but as far as I know it does not have an email client.
- johnea 3y agoAlways amazing how the HN social scoring works... This comment isn't even about a mail reader, much less thunderbird, and yet it's at the top of the comments...
- userbinator 3y agoDid you post this in the wrong thread?
- jraph 3y agoIt looks like an IMoB (Irrelevant Mention of Brave). They are shockingly common. Yesterday there was one in the NewPipe thread, from someone who was supposedly afraid Brave could be taken down by a DMCA request.
- housemusicfan 3y agoBecause when I think of what I need in an email client, I think "beautiful" not "functional". It's a tool not a work of art. I use it to get work done not stare at it in awe. UX people have killed application software. I need basic tools to work, not make me excited to use them. When I pick up a screwdriver, I don't do it for the experience. Ugh. You know what's a beautiful email client to me? Netscape Communicator 4.x
- plibither8 3y agoI think that's an exceptionally reductive and cynical take, without providing any real reasons for the hate, or how this update will reduce your usability of the application.
- margalabargala 3y agoTangibly, "beautiful" UX is code for "rounded corners and lots of useless buffer space in between the informative elements". This is visible in the screenshots in the link. Things are further apart, less dense, and therefore more "beautiful". I agree that OP's take is reductive and cynical. I would add that in this case, as in essentially every other case where this is done, it is also accurate.
- ticviking 3y agoThe guys down at the shop aren't talkin about how pretty the snap on tools are. Make it work. Make it easy to work with. Then make it pretty.
- itishappy 3y ago> The guys down at the shop aren't talkin about how pretty the snap on tools are. Got a new diamond turning lathe in the machine shop about a month ago, whew lad. Warehouse got a vertical stacker and started giving tours, lol. Our glass shop keeps the MRF machine so clean the repair techs claim we must not use it. > Make it work. Make it easy to work with. Then make it pretty. Any specific usability issues in mind about this 19 year old email client?
- barbariangrunge 3y agoWhat's the advantage of thunderbird over the built in apple apps? Better privacy?
- paulryanrogers 3y agoFor me, extensions and a consistent experience when I need to work on different platforms
- lucb1e 3y agoProbably Thunderbird has more features than Apple's typical "think different and do it, eh, our way only", but not sure Thunderbird was meant to specifically have advantages over the macOS email program. I expect both do what it says on the tin and it's a matter of preference and what you're used to: if you come from Linux, odds are you didn't pirate macOS email program and emulated it, so you're used to Thunderbird already. Or if you want to have the same client on your work PC as well, you can install Thunderbird anywhere.
- crossroadsguy 3y agoHere’s one big advantage - I can send from any email on my domain by setting that email address in a second by just clicking on “from” field and I don’t even have “add” this permanently in setting somewhere. Try doing that in Mail.app.
- alaskamiller 3y agoI don't get it. On first boot my iCloud email is already setup, I add my other three email accounts (2 gmail, 1 self rolled). In the Mail compose window I have a dropdown that lets me choose any of the accounts to reply. I can also use Apple's new hide my email option.
- marcodiego 3y agoSincere doubt: what percentage of users still use a "mail reader"? Hasn't most of the "end-user" base switched to web alternatives?
- wetpaws 3y agoWeb alternatives are so horrible right now, I would not be surprised more folks are migrating back
- lolinder 3y agoFastmail's web UI is as good as ever.
- the__alchemist 3y agoFastmail won't load your messages if you don't have internet; I think Fastmail users should be especially in need of a client/local storage.
- BenFranklin100 3y agoYep. That’s a reason why I use Thunderbird.
- luuurker 3y agoIn the context of the two comments above yours, that doesn't invalidate what their point. I've been using a web/online only client for a few years and agree with the parent comment. Fastmail's web UI works better for me than Gmail or Outlook.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoI like Protonmail’s.
- lucb1e 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll I use an email client because I don't want to deploy PGP keys to the server -- then there's no point. It's interesting though: on mobile, everyone wants a client application. On desktop, people wonder why bother with client software when we have a browser. "Reddit for Desktop"? Hah, doesn't even exist! But "Reddit is Fun" for Android? People died on that hill.
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoIt looks like the Outlook I am required to use at work. I disabled Thunderbird Autoupdate when I learned this was coming down the pike a couple of days ago on HN.
- TheRealPomax 3y agoTo quote the release post: > Card View emulates a mobile interface list with multi-line support, offering a more comfortable appearance to reduce cognitive burden. (And because we want Supernova to feel familiar for veteran users, the legacy “Table” view is still available.) So what's the problem? Just keep using the view you prefer.
- thesuitonym 3y agoOh thank goodness. I love the look of Thunderbird, and was dreading this change. I hope there are options to retain the same density on the email list.
- TheRealPomax 3y agoSame; I've always hated the Apple Mail look, and have no need for it in my life, or my Thunderbird.
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoOk, I missed that then. Thanks for the correction.
- relyks 3y agoAs soon as the Conversations add-on is updated (it makes Gmail-like threads in Thunderbird), I'm upgrading
- dcchambers 3y agoOh wow you just reminded me threaded emails weren't commonplace until Gmail and I'm having horrible flashbacks.
- mcny 3y agoIt is so easy to forget how things used to be terrible before. Like an email chain that keeps adding Re in the subject line > Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re:
- guerrilla 3y agoWhat? Threaded emails were present back in Eudora and were always in Evolution and Thunderbird, no? Weren't they even on newsgroup readers?
- boastful_inaba 3y agoPresent in specialist clients like Eudora, perhaps, but I think for mass-market users that only touched webmail and Outlook the introduction of threading in Gmail must have seemed heavenly.
- freetanga 3y agoEudora was -the mass-market-client back in Win 3.1 (along with Trumpet TCP/IP package)
- dcchambers 3y agoI never said Gmail invented threaded emails, just that it brought threaded emails to the masses. Outlook and almost all webmail didn't have threading support at the time.
- silisili 3y agoI really love the new view. I'm glad they finally adopted the Outlook/Evolution layout, as I've always found it easier to reason about. I'd been using Evolution as a result, but this is tempting. Anyone know what the Thunderbird -> MS Exchange or OWA story is these days?
- corndoge 3y agoOwl is still the best option as far as I am aware. https://www.beonex.com/owl/ https://www.beonex.com/owl/
- parker_mountain 3y agoThe site is not clear, but if it's server-side, it's a non-starter for pretty much everyone. Do you know where it runs?
- irregularfire29 3y agoIt's a client-side extension for Thunderbird. It works extremely well, in my experience.
- keeglin 3y agoIt's client-side, and works very well for email. It used to be that email notifications through Thunderbird waited until your next email refresh interval, but I noticed they are coming in at the same rate as the Outlook clients after the last update to Owl. Calendaring through Lightning is incomplete and experimental. In the "spaces" vertical toolbar on the left, Owl has added a Teams button recently, as well. It opens the Teams O365 app in a tab in Thunderbird, which I really like. I haven't had a chance to check if any meeting or audio features work there.
- dotancohen 3y agoI've used Owl with Thunderbird to connect to Exchange in the past, I'll vouch for it as well.
- cs702 3y agoWhat I and many others would like is seamless synchronization of calendars and contacts with Gmail, Outlook, and other accounts. Alas, seamless synchronization with calendars and contacts managed by others is really hard -- and boring. Improving design and responsiveness is so much easier -- and much more exciting! So, all the development effort has gone into... improving design and responsiveness.
- jameson71 3y agoLuckily this is open source software. Be the change you want to see in the world!
- lucb1e 3y agoWe've been using that at work in Thunderbird since forever. What is it that you're missing?
- abdullahkhalids 3y agoIt's possible to have read only access to Outlook Calendars from Thunderbird. But you couldn't accept event invites or create new events. At least at my previous work, which I left last summer.
- lucb1e 3y agoI apparently don't get event invites from Outlook Calendars then. All the invites that I get in Thunderbird from colleagues (on Thunderbird) and customer (no idea what they use) seem to work fine. Does Outlook not use the caldav standard that everyone else uses? Which clients do work with that then, only Outlook itself? Gotta be annoying if anyone in the company uses, say, an Android or iOS device
- abdullahkhalids 3y agoWhat I mean is that if you have an Outlook account, and you want to use Thunderbird for it, you will need to sync your Outlook calendar with Thunderbird. Outlook uses Exchange ActiveSync instead of CalDav/CardDav for this syncing. The way to give Thunderbird these capabilities are by installing these two connected addons [1, 2]. At least till June 2022, I could see meeting invites from colleagues in Thunderbird. I would also see the translucent event in the calendar in Thunderbird. But accepting the invite would not work [2]. Also creating and sending Outlook calendar events from within Thunderbird didn't work. So, I always had to open the web Calendar to do these things. Thunderbird was only good for meeting reminders. There is a new major release of the addon since then, so it is possible that the bug is fixed. > I apparently don't get event invites from Outlook Calendars then Obviously if your email/calendar account is something else, then you have no problem. If someone sends an invite to my gmail, from their outlook, I can accept it fine from within Thunderbird, because Thunderbird/gmail are communicating using Caldav (I think). > Which clients do work with that then, only Outlook itself? I will use Thunderbird as much as possible till it is pried from my cold dead hands! [1] https://github.com/jobisoft/TbSync/ https://github.com/jobisoft/TbSync/ [2] https://github.com/jobisoft/EAS-4-TbSync/wiki/About:-Provider-for-Exchange-ActiveSync https://github.com/jobisoft/EAS-4-TbSync/wiki/About:-Provide...
- Yhippa 3y agoI'm pretty happy with the web clients but just downloaded this to give it a shot. I was surprised to see that in the initial account onboarding they ask for a password. Then once I entered that information it let me log into my provider by a wrapped page (not the system browser) which looked a bit out of date to me. This never used to bother me back in the day. When I used these tools, I'd happily give my credentials up but I'm very suspicious of this way of registering my account. I suppose it's open source but the juice isn't worth the squeeze compared to the web clients. The main thing that makes the web clients work for me is search against decades of emails.
- lucb1e 3y agoThe latter works fine (and offline) for me in Thunderbird. Just tried with a folder that has 7500 messages (2013 till today) and listening to the clock ticking in the background: completes in exactly one second, as near as I can tell. Searching all folders at once (four big folders are 32k emails together, I don't know the total) takes ~0.3 seconds to come up with "no results", 1 second to find the only result ("umpteen" was my first guess at which query might yield a single hit :D), or 2 seconds on a generic query to find 713 results (and populate a list of 384 involved senders sorted by frequency, a timeline of volume by year, which folders those results can be found in, which mailing list it was sent to if any, etc.). This is on a then-mid-range laptop from 2018.
- ranger207 3y agoThat sounds like an OAuth authentication flow? Not a lot Thunderbird can do about that unfortunately
- FounderBurr 3y agoI have zero interest in these feature hiding, information density reducing ‘upgrades’. Nice hamburger menu, real innovation.
- lucb1e 3y agoFound the not-Thunderbird user. The hamburger menu was introduced about ten years ago I'd wager. Maybe you'd like to make your own free(dom/beer) email client and see what positive responses people post there? :)
- 000ooo000 3y agoWhat's your point? People aren't required to build something equivalent before they're allowed to have critical feedback.
- luuurker 3y agoIsn't the parent comment complaining about the upgrade and mentions the hamburger menu as one of the "innovations"? The hamburger menu was already there, it's not new. That's the point, I think.
- okanat 3y agoMaybe they are not a Thunderbird user but I am. You can still disable the hamburger menu in the older versions. If they are removing the menu bars entirely I will stop using Thunderbird. What's the point of using a desktop app if you don't get the nice features and dense UI of the desktop apps.
- paddim8 3y agoThis layout displays information way more efficiently. It makes absolutely no sense to have the email content panel below the email list, because emails don't have that aspect ratio, so you either end up with super zoomed in emails or huge empty borders. Makes no sense. With this, the available space is used more efficiently, and differing font sizes are used to differentiate between different types of text and how important it is. That's more ergonomic as well.
- schwank 3y agoWell my previous Mint LTS install just went out of support so guess I'll be rebuilding and might be able to try Supernova. I hate the message list pane on the left but IIRC in the prerelease press they said you could swap the layout, so I'm hoping that remains true. I've been a happy a happy Thunderbird user for many years with no desire to move to webmail. Glad to see it getting some love!
- jchw 3y agoI said this already I think but I am really looking forward to when they are able to ship Firefox sync support in Thunderbird. It has been deferred a couple of times due to issues but at least for me, account sync is even more useful for Thunderbird than it would be for Firefox.
- cottsak 3y agowat! thunderbird is still a thing :o
- Naac 3y agoDoes clicking on "New Message" still create a new window instead of letting the new message be composed in a tab? That's the one "feature" I've been waiting on that just seems to be stuck in limbo. Looks like the bug is still open: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=449299
- autoexec 3y agoideally you'd be able to do either. I much prefer new windows when opening existing messages or writing new ones, but I wouldn't assume that works best for everyone else
- carlotte 3y ago[dead]
- 1attice 3y agoI admit that there is an element of, "but I chose an obscure and challenging linux variant, waaah why isn't it supported" here, but (a) there's currently no flatpak and (b) when, for goodness sakes, will major linux projects begin packaging for Nix/NixOS as a matter of course? It's not hard, and the benefits go far outside merely supporting Nix, as e.g. a flake.nix file would allow this project to generate docker images, and appImage images, as basically afterthoughts. (See e.g. https://github.com/matthewbauer/nix-bundle https://github.com/matthewbauer/nix-bundle.) Nix flake support would also provide a perfectly reproducible build environment, which can help clarify dependencies, and thus help the project build achieve idempotence, but I'll save the full shill for some github issue. In fact, I'm inclined to roll up my shirtsleeves and help make this real, at least for Thunderbird. PS. there is also the fact that the Thunderbird provided downloadable tar.bz2 is not usable under nix, which makes this problem more pressing. PPS. Yes, I know about steam-run. Which, btw, works here. All the same, weird that I have to go get some random steam-related thing to make thunderbird happy, right? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/522822/different-methods-to-run-a-non-nixos-executable-on-nixos https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/522822/different-me...
- trackofalljades 3y agoDoes anyone know how to make the interface fonts bigger? Not the message composition font, but like, the font for the message list and all the controls? It's really, really, really small on a Retina display and I'm not a teenage gamer anymore.
- RRWagner 3y agoI posted that as a feature request 13 yrs ago. (ID 570442) following on bug ID 471231 from 15 yrs ago. It seems to be intractable.
- promiseofbeans 3y agoI think there's a control to make it larger in the menu in the top right
- dugite-code 3y agoClick the Hamburger menu and adjust the font size there. For some reason this isn't in the settings menu. Also select the middle density option. I find that helps
- shmerl 3y agoDoes it support XDG base directory specification on Linux? Firefox still didn't get there.
- rickstanley 3y agoIf you're talking about the file picker or desktop environment related defaults, you can just go to about:config and set "widget.use-xdg-desktop-portal" to true and/or "widget.use-xdg-desktop-portal.file-picker" to 1. Unfortunately not enabled by default
- shmerl 3y agoI'm talking about Firefox for example creating $HOME/.mozilla since it's not using XDG base directory spec fully (it does use it for cache for example). See https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-...
- dugite-code 3y agoIf you're encountering the horrible Microsoft proprietary TNEF/winmail.dat issue the Lookout plugin is looking for help updating to a webextension: https://github.com/TB-throwback/LookOut-fix-version https://github.com/TB-throwback/LookOut-fix-version
- cpill 3y agoI don't understand what the vision is of thunderbird? where in the market do they see themselves? managing emails on local disk is a nightmare I abandoned as soon as Gmail came out as I could access my mail from any machine and upgrading laptops didn't mean shuffling gigs of emails across. the only thing I've used TB for in the last 10years was to delete all the large attachments in my Gmail. I also dabbled in trying to get secure end-to-end encryption going but it was a struggle and I quickly forgot how it worked, just started using protonmail instead.
- bradrn 3y agoThunderbird is a mail client, just like the desktop version of Microsoft Outlook. Emails don’t have to be stored locally — I use Thunderbird with two Gmail accounts and it works great.
- BenFranklin100 3y agoAs bradrn already mentioned, Thunderbird is an email client. It integrates well with many online email offerings. I use it with Fastmail. Works great. Also many like the ability to access an maintain offline copies. I’m not a gmail user, but I know one can download a backup of 90 days easily, but I have over 25 years of emails and attachments from various accounts through the years which runs over 100GB. Thunderbird handles this. My major complaint is Thunderbird search is poor.
- thesuitonym 3y agoThunderbird is free software made by volunteers, as such, it doesn't need to fit anywhere in any market. People like it. You don't have to, and that's fine. For me, I like it because browsers are a huge mess of surveillance and ad targeting--even Firefox. Not to mention the speed. Even on a fast computer, loading a browser, then opening Gmail is not a quick process. By contrast, Thunderbird opens fairly quickly (Not like notepad on a Windows NT device, but for a modern application, it's pretty fast). Finally, IMAP has been around since 1986, why would you shuffle gigabytes of email across multiple devices? Inb4 you still need to download with imap. I know, but a good IMAP client only downloads the folder you're currently looking at, then syncs it back to the server, no "shuffling" required.
- nubinetwork 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113
- seltzered_ 3y agoPrevious discussion from a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664113
- yetanother12345 3y ago> Our fastest ... ever Last time I installed Thunderbird seems to have been in the 00's sometime[0]. Since then I have used the same install, only updating it, and moving/cloning to other units. Back then PCs were s-l-o-w but Thunderbird was _fast_. Moreso than Outlook/Outlook Express in startup as well as operation. Then, speed deteriorated bit by bit over the years. Due to feature creep, I suppose (in other news; also UX in several subtle ways that all add up). I do not believe that the claim of "Fastest ... ever" is credible, and I have reason to believe that speed on an 13yo X86 unit still running 32bit[1] will not be impressive. Still, if speed is improved even slightly I'd welcome that. [0] Datestamp of earliest email in a random folder is December of 1999 - 23 years ago. But then the earliest emails were imported from another email client into Thunderbird. In any case I started using Thunderbird as a very early adopter, mostly due to their very convincing Firebird product (I was in Tech then, too). [1] The unit I prefer using for anything that does not require Windows or other ressource hogs (eg. browsing like now). Yes it's _that_ old. It's Linux, so no problem.
- orbital-decay 3y ago>Last time I installed Thunderbird was in December of 1999 - 23 years ago Surely that can't be right unless you had a time machine, as it was released in 2004, being based on Phoenix/Firefox.
- 111111IIIIIII 3y agoI've always thought of a time machine as being capable of traversing time but not rearranging it.
- johnchristopher 3y agoIt existed before that and was called Minotaur, which was a work to separate the mail client from the Mozilla suite. Thunderbird wasn't written from scratch from Phoenix or firebird. But it benefited of all the improvements made to common code used by Phoenix if memory serves right.
- grey_earthling 3y ago
- totallywrong 3y agoTime to install Thunderbird again, I'm not even sure why I stopped using it but always liked it. Kudos to the team.
- rambojohnson 3y agoan email client. fascinating.
- KingLancelot 3y ago[dead]
- trog 3y agoIf like me you're wondering when this will be released via the in-application auto-update mechanism, the bottom of the article states: > As with any major release, we sometimes become aware of corner cases after significant public testing. The Thunderbird team will wait to enable automatic updates until we’re confident no such issues exist. So if you want it now you have to download the new installer, you can't just do what I was doing and continually check for a new version and hope it turns up in the next few hours :)
- stOneskull 3y agoi have about 50 email addresses. thunderbird handles it ok at the moment but i'm a bit worried the new update won't. fingers crossed..
- pantulis 3y agoIsolated data point: I have a couple of accounts, some of them have more than 50k messages. I noticed Thunderbird's auto-update wouldn't trigger so I manually installed the macOS .dmg with no issues. The previous Thunderbird profile was loaded as usual (with the folders on an external disk) I have to say that the new look and feel is definitely better but it looked much nicer in the screenshots, I don't know why, I don't think it's a technical thing, perhaps my own expectations.
- iakov 3y agoIt definitely looks better on the screenshots! I thought it was me, but I've noticed other people writing about this too. Maybe the design was not translated well to the code, some subtle things like proportions and distance between elements being off.
- Night_Thastus 3y agoI suspect it could also be some old user settings that are messing with it. Perhaps a fresh install would not have that problem. The new defaults may play nicer with the new design.
- heavyset_go 3y agoI'd start using email clients again if there was a way to use 2FA or passkeys for authentication.
- jmmv 3y agoI haven't tried Thunderbird in a while, but Windows Mail, Apple Mail, and even Evolution support OAuth, which takes you through the 2FA flow of, at least, GMail and Outlook.com.
- heavyset_go 3y agoNice, thanks for letting me know. It's been years since I seriously looked into this.
- ipcress_file 3y agoWow. After years of being irritated by the inconsistent font sizes in incoming emails in Thunderbird (and using Claws-mail instead), I downloaded this new version and finally figured out how to set it up properly (which was likely always possible). You have to set the default font size, then go into "Advanced" and set the same size for 'Latin,' 'Other Writing Systems,' and any other languages you use. After using Claws-mail for years, I doubt I'll change, but at least the option is there.
- zamalek 3y agoI really hope to see a priority inbox with Thunderbird at some point, I'd love to switch over but email is completely unmanageable these days without it.
- denysonique 3y agoIn my opinion it still lacks some basic modern UI/UX stuff. For instance the calendar does not implement a click and drag event creation mechanism. The message preview view is only limited to the senders name and message title, there is no option to have one or two additional lines of text with the message content as preview. The calendar also does not allow scrolling the weekly view by one day (instead of the whole week) at a time.
- globular-toast 3y ago> The calendar also does not allow scrolling the weekly view by one day (instead of the whole week) at a time. Interesting. How would this work? Are you suggesting a grid of arbitrary dimensions with today always top left or in the middle? Thus deemphasising the existence of weeks (and weekends)? Thunderbird remains the only calendar I'm aware of with a "multi-week" that disregards the utterly useless concept of a month.
- globular-toast 3y agoSorry, reread the post and you said the weekly view. So it's similar to my complaint about monthly views. You want to see n days ahead and m days behind, where m,n >= 0 and are your choice. I have no idea why electronic calendars remain stuck in the emulated paper calendar paradigm.
- chetangoti 3y agoFew weeks ago I tried Thunderbird with IMAP account which has ~300k emails. It was painfully slow just to load emails list and view email. Let alone navigate the folders I want all the emails downloaded for offline search. I guess I would give this a try again and see how it goes. Meanwhile, I have been using eM client since a week and it is very prompt to view list, navigate folders, search and all. With eM client, I have read people complaining about mandatory forced updates even with the paid license.
- fbn79 3y agoCan I suggest you to give a try to Betterbird (https://www.betterbird.eu/ https://www.betterbird.eu/)? Betterbird is a fine-tuned version of Mozilla Thunderbird, with addition bug Fixes and optimizations.
- zelphirkalt 3y agoOne thing I miss in Thunderbird is automatic labelling of e-mails. Way back I used to use Opera's e-mail client, which I think was called M2. It had bayesian learning for labelling. You would label e-mail and then it would learn from that and label new e-mails itself quite reliably after some training. Then you could build filters for. In Tb one can tag e-mails, but I have yet so see a good way to have it learn this and automatically label e-mails. Assigning tags is still somewhat cumbersome via the context menu or the tags bar, which unfortunately disappears when selecting multiple e-mails.
- Koffiepoeder 3y agoYou can create manual automation rules through the 'filters' functionality though [0]. It's not automatic/bayesian based, but after some tinkering I manage to use it quite effectively. [0]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-...
- zelphirkalt 3y agoI know those and sometimes use filters, but am too lazy to manually create filters for all my tags. Also one issue is, that the filters can only either be "or" or "and" filters. One cannot make some conditions "or" and the result of those "and" with another condition. Except if you utilize several layers of folders, having filters working on different layers. At that point it becomes a whole algorithm.
- yobbo 3y ago"Bayesian" in this context most likely means naive bayes; which assumes occurrences of all words are independent of each other. The "score" of each label ends up being something like the product of all relative word frequencies, multiplied by the probability of the label itself: p(L) * p(W|L) / p(W). But this would be super-effective if header fields like sender addresses and subject lines were somehow used as separate features, and you wanted to label based on that.
- 3y ago
- pmlnr 3y agoI used Thunderbird a lot when I was still on Windows, around 2007, and loved it, both for email and as my RSS reader. By the time I moved to linux somewhere in 2009 it started to feel... stuck. I needed calendaring, and Lightning barely worked with caldav. The contact management system in Thunderbird was always bad, but when trying to integrate with carddav (with SoGo at that point) at best it was problematic. Then the whole Thunderbird project seemed abandoned at one point, only to pick up Firefox's new engine and layout ideas which killed off a lot of plugins. I moved to Evolution, and for linux, I don't think there's a smoother option out there with the same level of features. Unlike Thunderbird it finds my carddav & caldav server from PTR records and configures the whole thing correctly, working, with one "Collection Account", plus it never had the 2GB file size issue I hit with Thunderbird that made my life quite miserable in 2009. Anyhow: congratulation, it's a lot of work, and the team can now close a feature request that was open since the beginning of time (wide view), but I'm done jumping from software to software as long as the current one works as expected; for me, that's Gnome Evolution.
- 47nil 3y agoAnd yet it looks outdated in its UI and UX, not to mention slow in MacOS I was a huge supporter of both Firefox and thunderbird in the early 00s but their UI/UX became so bad and so old (not to mention insecure) that forced me to go safari and Apple Mail. Both not great, but def much better than the Mozilla offerings. I wish they just rewrite the app from zero, with a modern architecture and UI, and supporting modern hardware.
- pachico 3y agoMaybe someone can help me out. I am always wondering if I should use Thunderbird considering I only use Gmail, both as in private and at work. I fear the integration with calendar won't be the same but I'm considering it. Can someone tell me good reasons to switch?
- jessyco 3y agoYou can try it out without any harm. Is having your own copy of your mail local important to you? Have you ever thought of switching email providers, maybe having a client that you're used to like Thunderbird would make the provider matter a lot less.
- pachico 3y agoGood questions. No, I don't need a local copy and I'm quite ok with Gmail at the moment. I was thinking about using Thunderbird to interact with Gmail, in reality.
- Macha 3y agoI use thunderbird because the interface is better for bulk managing email than the webapps from either gmail (my previous provider, and my employer's current provider) or fastmail (my current provider). For work, the real threaded view is a big improvement over the gmail UI collapsing it into linear conversations. Calendar integration is there and is mostly "fine". I won't say it's competitive with google calendar as it exists today, but my needs of calendar are less than my needs of mail.
- pachico 3y agoThanks a lot!
- asadotzler 3y agoEver want to scroll through search results when the list is longer than 100? In Thunderbird I can search 200,000 messages, get 10,000 results and scroll the messages immediately and instantaneously from top to bottom. The same exercise in Gmail's web interface takes 4.6 days to complete.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoI welcome the UI change, but given that, appart from the terrible search, thunderbird has been working very well so far, I'm not going to risk upgrading one of my most important business software to something that changes so many things. It will be buggy and slow for a few versions, and likely incompatible with addons. I'll update in a few years.
- korginator 3y agoBeen using the Mozilla suite for email since the late 1990's and migrated to Thunderbird some time in 2003-2004 if I recall. I've never really bothered with speed or understood why it was a concern with a POP/IMAP email client, and that's never been a reason for me to use it. Migration of my mails from Mozilla to thunderbird was trivial since they used the same mbox format. I've moved my thunderbird profile after that from Linux to Windows to Mac, across nearly 20 years, with no problems. I will continue to use Thunderbird for the simple reason that it just works on all the common OS'es and it's easy to move your profile across them.
- WhyNotHugo 3y agoThere's some really messed up padding when you use a menubar -- instead of being aligned with the hamburger menu, it's shifted BELOW it, resulting in huge amounts of empty space in both bars https://bug1843292.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=9343713 https://bug1843292.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=9343... I suspect this is a result of the menubar being less trendy (and maybe not even taken into account when designing/testing). Edit: using 'compact' and 'default' densities, text gets cropped all over the place (e.g.: in email subjects, email FROM, etc). Only density "relaxed" seems to work. There's a lot of graphical quirks all over the place. Honestly, this feels very rushed and in beta-like state. Edit2: if the window is narrow enough, the bar from the menulist overflows into the email and renders overlapped. If I click on an thread with multiple messages, the reading pane shows a preview of each message, but clicking on them doesn't open them. Double clicking on the thread on the list opens each message in a new tab. There doesn't seem to be any obvious way to open a single message from a thread.
- ertt 3y ago[flagged]
- rbanffy 3y agoIt mildly annoys me the two default choices for e-mail clients on Linux have feature overlaps with my Gnome environment. I already have a calendar app that's part of the desktop. Is there a simple e-mail client that doesn't have its own calendar, but integrates with Gnome's?
- tristan957 3y agoGeary or elementary's Mail?
- rbanffy 3y agoI liked Geary, but couldn't make it do the dual pane (message list, message content).
- demiourgos 3y agoNew design is too cluttered and way less comfortable to work with mail then it was in 102. It's a big step back for me. The unused space on top is... well a big mistake.