3 ms·

The page isn’t clear on if the info has to be shown or can be shown. I get doing more to verify developers (ignoring what I think of DUNS). But acting as an i

by MBCook 3y ago

The page isn’t clear on if the info has to be shown or can be shown. I get doing more to verify developers (ignoring what I think of DUNS). But acting as an individual developer if I were to think of creating an app for Android and saw that I had to publicly post my phone number that would be an absolute dead stop to development.

kccqzy 3y ago
Just create a virtual phone number (say Google Voice) and put that up.
- a1o 3y ago
  Google Voice is dead, isn't it?
  - fencepost 3y ago
    Not dead, but certainly looks pretty abandoned.
- MBCook 3y ago
  So just to list list an app I need to sign up for an additional phone number. Why? So people can call me? For what? Tech support? To ask if I exist? I’m not answering that phone number. Im not signing up for it. People in Hacker News complain left and right about all of Apple‘s policies and the hoops they make you jump through and how you have to pay $100 a year. I have an app on the App Store. I don’t have to post my phone number and I don’t have to pay for a second one to ignore.
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    I don't understand. You are paying $100 a year for the App Store. And yet you are unwilling to pay for the existence for a phone number that costs less than $100? People on Hacker News rightly complain about Apple's store. But you are applying this double standard here. If you want to complain, complain better.
MrZander 3y ago
If you view the "Full Policy" link, it does seem to state that it must be shown. "where applicable" is vague though... Before you submit your app, you must: Accurately provide your developer account information, including the following details: * Legal name and address * D-U-N-S number, if registering as an organization * Contact email address and phone number * Developer email address and phone number shown on Google Play where applicable * Payment methods where applicable * Google payment profile linked to your developer account
- jprete 3y ago
  I have no special knowledge of this, but I think the natural interpretation is that “developer email and phone number” means contact info for a business publishing the app.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    I agree, my worry is what if I don’t have a company? Then do they consider me the company and decide to post my information? Surely not. But it needs clarification.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
Minimally, for one who wants to keep a personal number private, this will raise the barrier to entry with an ongoing cost for a separate number. Still, it’s a win for less technical users -- who ostensibly have never installed an alternative store -- considering they’ll be less likely to recognize scammy apps like the flashlights of old.
- MBCook 3y ago
  But Google can confirm that stuff without display it to the end user. That’s the role the intermediary should play.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Yeah, I agree with that too; it would be preferable if the privacy concern was “only” that it has to be sent to Google and not be displayed publicly. I think there is another point that it eases support contact for users to developers. But I disagree with that, I think. The developers should be able to decide for themselves how to provide that information, as well as what to provide. But then that has issues considering developers who might choose “send a letter to this PO box”, so there still has to be some verification that it’s not “too” inconvenient to the end user. From that angle, Google might prefer to dictate these terms. I see that Google likes to be heavy-handed (and is being so), which I don’t like to see, but this might actually be a positive for someone other than Google (or their business partners), which I do like to see. That being said, I’m not sure if the positive outweighs the negative. I also suspect Google’s intentions (to say the least) and consider that they really like the extra phone numbers they’ll get people to cough up. It’s certainly interesting to think about.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      Mandating a support site or an email or something like that makes total sense to me. It’s publishing real world addresses or phone numbers that really worries me. Either you have to give up your privacy and possibly be in danger or pay extra to avoid it by buying a phone number or a PO Box somewhere.
flakiness 3y ago
In the article, there is a screenshot listing the phone number in the "App support" section.
- nicolas_17 3y ago
  https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/13628312 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... Individuals: "Google will display your legal name, your country (as per your legal address), and developer email address on Google Play. If you decide to monetize on Google Play then Google will display your full address." Organizations: "To help improve transparency and user safety on Google Play, Google will display your legal name, legal address, developer email address, and developer phone number on Google Play."
  - bdw5204 3y ago
    Displaying full home address is especially dangerous. There's a reason why people pay for WHOIS privacy services to keep that private. Crazy people will use that information to show up at your home and harass you or even commit violence against you. Presumably you could use a PO box but like paying for a second phone number that's another cost to keep small developers out of the Play Store. I imagine most parents won't want their teenager who made an app publishing their phone number and home address on the internet.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      Considering one of the fundamental points of a curated application store is end-user security, demanding that software publishers display their contact information is one of the most basic means of establishing and maintaining that security. If the publisher takes money from their end-users, now more accurately their customers, it is an absolute requirement that their street or mailing address be also displayed for further security and liability purposes. Wouldn't you want to know exactly where your money is going? Wouldn't your bank? Wouldn't your accountant? Wouldn't your tax collectors? I agree publishing your home street address for all to see isn't ideal, but that is why many people have separate street and mailing addresses and why the wiser folks also run their own business to publish their products under to separate commercial liabilities from their personal liabilities.
Dalewyn 3y ago
1. As a customer, knowing I can call you goes a long way towards establishing your legitimacy in this day and age of overflowing junk devs and junkware. It's a way of demonstrating and establishing liability, FSVO liability. 2. If you don't want your personal phone number published, which is perfectly justifiable, provide your business phone number. Don't own a business? Go and register one at your local government office. It's probably better for you to publish software under a business instead of your personal name anyway.
- colanderman 3y ago
  2 -- what? No. I'm not a business, I'm a hobbyist. I'm developing a thing I want to share for free with the world. I don't care if it's pseudonymous and I can't build a brand with it. But I want my network not to have to jump through hoops to install it.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    A business is a legal entity, a way to separate certain liabilities from your personal name. If you don't want to sell something, that's fine, but that is tangent to owning a business or not. What you want to do is publish your software without divulging your personal information. The proper way to do that is run your own business (eg: "Colanderman, LLC") and use that to satisfy public information requirements. Note, if I'm misunderstanding you as to your desires then I do apologize. The overarching subject of discussion here is Google Play Store demanding phone numbers and other such information be publicly displayed, so I'm conversing with regards to how to satisfy that properly without divulging your own personal information.
    - colanderman 3y ago
      I publish all sorts of things without divulging personal information. I'm publishing text on this site right now. I get that certain legal things require publicly associating a legal entity with them, but Google Play Store historically hasn't been, and it's entrenched itself as an effective gatekeeper for software deployed on most mobile phones. Changing their policy adds a frustrating and needless barrier for hobbyist developers. (Remember that registering an LLC entails a yearly cost in many jurisdictions. It's not free, and I can't afford to pay it for something that's not a money maker.)

by MBCook 3y ago

kccqzy 3y ago

Just create a virtual phone number (say Google Voice) and put that up.

a1o 3y ago
Google Voice is dead, isn't it?
- fencepost 3y ago
  Not dead, but certainly looks pretty abandoned.
MBCook 3y ago
So just to list list an app I need to sign up for an additional phone number. Why? So people can call me? For what? Tech support? To ask if I exist? I’m not answering that phone number. Im not signing up for it. People in Hacker News complain left and right about all of Apple‘s policies and the hoops they make you jump through and how you have to pay $100 a year. I have an app on the App Store. I don’t have to post my phone number and I don’t have to pay for a second one to ignore.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  I don't understand. You are paying $100 a year for the App Store. And yet you are unwilling to pay for the existence for a phone number that costs less than $100? People on Hacker News rightly complain about Apple's store. But you are applying this double standard here. If you want to complain, complain better.

MrZander 3y ago

If you view the "Full Policy" link, it does seem to state that it must be shown. "where applicable" is vague though... Before you submit your app, you must: Accurately provide your developer account information, including the following details: * Legal name and address * D-U-N-S number, if registering as an organization * Contact email address and phone number * Developer email address and phone number shown on Google Play where applicable * Payment methods where applicable * Google payment profile linked to your developer account

jprete 3y ago
I have no special knowledge of this, but I think the natural interpretation is that “developer email and phone number” means contact info for a business publishing the app.
- MBCook 3y ago
  I agree, my worry is what if I don’t have a company? Then do they consider me the company and decide to post my information? Surely not. But it needs clarification.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

Minimally, for one who wants to keep a personal number private, this will raise the barrier to entry with an ongoing cost for a separate number. Still, it’s a win for less technical users -- who ostensibly have never installed an alternative store -- considering they’ll be less likely to recognize scammy apps like the flashlights of old.

MBCook 3y ago
But Google can confirm that stuff without display it to the end user. That’s the role the intermediary should play.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree with that too; it would be preferable if the privacy concern was “only” that it has to be sent to Google and not be displayed publicly. I think there is another point that it eases support contact for users to developers. But I disagree with that, I think. The developers should be able to decide for themselves how to provide that information, as well as what to provide. But then that has issues considering developers who might choose “send a letter to this PO box”, so there still has to be some verification that it’s not “too” inconvenient to the end user. From that angle, Google might prefer to dictate these terms. I see that Google likes to be heavy-handed (and is being so), which I don’t like to see, but this might actually be a positive for someone other than Google (or their business partners), which I do like to see. That being said, I’m not sure if the positive outweighs the negative. I also suspect Google’s intentions (to say the least) and consider that they really like the extra phone numbers they’ll get people to cough up. It’s certainly interesting to think about.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Mandating a support site or an email or something like that makes total sense to me. It’s publishing real world addresses or phone numbers that really worries me. Either you have to give up your privacy and possibly be in danger or pay extra to avoid it by buying a phone number or a PO Box somewhere.

flakiness 3y ago

In the article, there is a screenshot listing the phone number in the "App support" section.

nicolas_17 3y ago
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/13628312 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... Individuals: "Google will display your legal name, your country (as per your legal address), and developer email address on Google Play. If you decide to monetize on Google Play then Google will display your full address." Organizations: "To help improve transparency and user safety on Google Play, Google will display your legal name, legal address, developer email address, and developer phone number on Google Play."
- bdw5204 3y ago
  Displaying full home address is especially dangerous. There's a reason why people pay for WHOIS privacy services to keep that private. Crazy people will use that information to show up at your home and harass you or even commit violence against you. Presumably you could use a PO box but like paying for a second phone number that's another cost to keep small developers out of the Play Store. I imagine most parents won't want their teenager who made an app publishing their phone number and home address on the internet.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Considering one of the fundamental points of a curated application store is end-user security, demanding that software publishers display their contact information is one of the most basic means of establishing and maintaining that security. If the publisher takes money from their end-users, now more accurately their customers, it is an absolute requirement that their street or mailing address be also displayed for further security and liability purposes. Wouldn't you want to know exactly where your money is going? Wouldn't your bank? Wouldn't your accountant? Wouldn't your tax collectors? I agree publishing your home street address for all to see isn't ideal, but that is why many people have separate street and mailing addresses and why the wiser folks also run their own business to publish their products under to separate commercial liabilities from their personal liabilities.

Dalewyn 3y ago

1. As a customer, knowing I can call you goes a long way towards establishing your legitimacy in this day and age of overflowing junk devs and junkware. It's a way of demonstrating and establishing liability, FSVO liability. 2. If you don't want your personal phone number published, which is perfectly justifiable, provide your business phone number. Don't own a business? Go and register one at your local government office. It's probably better for you to publish software under a business instead of your personal name anyway.

colanderman 3y ago
2 -- what? No. I'm not a business, I'm a hobbyist. I'm developing a thing I want to share for free with the world. I don't care if it's pseudonymous and I can't build a brand with it. But I want my network not to have to jump through hoops to install it.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  A business is a legal entity, a way to separate certain liabilities from your personal name. If you don't want to sell something, that's fine, but that is tangent to owning a business or not. What you want to do is publish your software without divulging your personal information. The proper way to do that is run your own business (eg: "Colanderman, LLC") and use that to satisfy public information requirements. Note, if I'm misunderstanding you as to your desires then I do apologize. The overarching subject of discussion here is Google Play Store demanding phone numbers and other such information be publicly displayed, so I'm conversing with regards to how to satisfy that properly without divulging your own personal information.
  - colanderman 3y ago
    I publish all sorts of things without divulging personal information. I'm publishing text on this site right now. I get that certain legal things require publicly associating a legal entity with them, but Google Play Store historically hasn't been, and it's entrenched itself as an effective gatekeeper for software deployed on most mobile phones. Changing their policy adds a frustrating and needless barrier for hobbyist developers. (Remember that registering an LLC entails a yearly cost in many jurisdictions. It's not free, and I can't afford to pay it for something that's not a money maker.)