3 ms·

How so? A big motivating factor to be successful for most people is to set themselves apart financially from the masses. Edit: And of course, what would be the

How so? A big motivating factor to be successful for most people is to set themselves apart financially from the masses. Edit: And of course, what would be the motivating factor for someone to give their best possible work, if the other 12 guys in their position get paid the same for less quality work?

TigeriusKirk 3y ago
Because many of those who excel in terms of merit now are those with the resources to support them while they perfect their craft. Money from something other than their craft is paying the bills while they gain their merit. UBI gives that to everyone, giving everyone a shot at developing their merit.
8note 3y ago
The ubi is a minimum for everyone, rather than a maximum. The merit comes from people being able to take risks that otherwise only the wealthy could do
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  If you thought the rent is too damn high now, imagine what it’ll look like after everyone is getting free money.
npteljes 3y ago
1. "How so?" UBI doesn't mean you can't earn more, this is not communism. 2. "what would be the motivating factor" They don't, UBI is not communism. And what you say is already true at many places, and the world is still turning. The motivating factor, with UBI, is the same without it: to achieve more. UBI would just let you not fall into homelessness and / or under the poverty threshold.
- nradov 3y ago
  How much would taxes have to increase in order to provide a UBI that would keep everyone above the poverty threshold? Have you actually done the math on this?
  - npteljes 3y ago
    I don't think straight-up UBI would work, in the current systems. I think it would just make every affected good that much more expensive. A similar thing happened recently in Hungary with housing prices, when the government basically put subsidy into people's pockets. And the market just ate the subsidy. I really do like the idea of a country keeping all of its citizens above the poverty line though. If UBI isn't the way, then some other way - maybe providing goods and meals instead of money? Taking a page from the Sikh's book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  > UBI would just let you not fall into homelessness and / or under the poverty threshold. How do you figure? Why wouldn’t landlords, businesses, etc just adjust their prices based on the UBI amount. They’ll be happy to collect more money courtesy of the taxpayers.
  - npteljes 3y ago
    Yeah, I don't think straight-up UBI would work in our current systems, because the market for the basic goods would absorb it, as you say (and as we experienced many times in history). I do think that it would have no negative effect of motivation though.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Why wouldn’t landlords, businesses, etc just adjust their prices based on the UBI amount. The same reason why they don’t capture all income now: “landlords, businesses, etc.” aren’t one single monopolistic entity, there is price competition in markets for necessities that aren't regulated public utilities. There may at times be (natural or artificial) supply constraints in one or anothet market, but those are (1) separate issues from UBI, and (2) natural poison points which create political pressure for resolution.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> A big motivating factor to be successful for most people is to set themselves apart financially from the masses. UBI isn’t “no one gets paid on top of UBI for value delivered”. UBI does nothing to limit that motivation.

TigeriusKirk 3y ago

Because many of those who excel in terms of merit now are those with the resources to support them while they perfect their craft. Money from something other than their craft is paying the bills while they gain their merit. UBI gives that to everyone, giving everyone a shot at developing their merit.

8note 3y ago

The ubi is a minimum for everyone, rather than a maximum. The merit comes from people being able to take risks that otherwise only the wealthy could do

lotsoweiners 3y ago
If you thought the rent is too damn high now, imagine what it’ll look like after everyone is getting free money.

npteljes 3y ago

1. "How so?" UBI doesn't mean you can't earn more, this is not communism. 2. "what would be the motivating factor" They don't, UBI is not communism. And what you say is already true at many places, and the world is still turning. The motivating factor, with UBI, is the same without it: to achieve more. UBI would just let you not fall into homelessness and / or under the poverty threshold.

nradov 3y ago
How much would taxes have to increase in order to provide a UBI that would keep everyone above the poverty threshold? Have you actually done the math on this?
- npteljes 3y ago
  I don't think straight-up UBI would work, in the current systems. I think it would just make every affected good that much more expensive. A similar thing happened recently in Hungary with housing prices, when the government basically put subsidy into people's pockets. And the market just ate the subsidy. I really do like the idea of a country keeping all of its citizens above the poverty line though. If UBI isn't the way, then some other way - maybe providing goods and meals instead of money? Taking a page from the Sikh's book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
lotsoweiners 3y ago
> UBI would just let you not fall into homelessness and / or under the poverty threshold. How do you figure? Why wouldn’t landlords, businesses, etc just adjust their prices based on the UBI amount. They’ll be happy to collect more money courtesy of the taxpayers.
- npteljes 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't think straight-up UBI would work in our current systems, because the market for the basic goods would absorb it, as you say (and as we experienced many times in history). I do think that it would have no negative effect of motivation though.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Why wouldn’t landlords, businesses, etc just adjust their prices based on the UBI amount. The same reason why they don’t capture all income now: “landlords, businesses, etc.” aren’t one single monopolistic entity, there is price competition in markets for necessities that aren't regulated public utilities. There may at times be (natural or artificial) supply constraints in one or anothet market, but those are (1) separate issues from UBI, and (2) natural poison points which create political pressure for resolution.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> A big motivating factor to be successful for most people is to set themselves apart financially from the masses. UBI isn’t “no one gets paid on top of UBI for value delivered”. UBI does nothing to limit that motivation.