11 ms·

This should be the reason why these sites should no longer exist. The IRS should have this as a built-in service. Or better yet, return-free filing like most ot

This should be the reason why these sites should no longer exist. The IRS should have this as a built-in service. Or better yet, return-free filing like most other large economy countries.

ta988 3y ago
It would be easier if the tax code was simplified, oh wait the tax-prep companies are also lobbying against that. Maybe we should dismantle them, take their money away and use that to pay lawyers and tax specialists to simplify the tax code and create a nice and easy filing interface.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  That is a huge part of it, but I've heard one of the other major barriers are people who are just plain anti-tax since they think anything more centralized would just give the government an excuse to sneak in new taxes.
  - starcraft2wol 3y ago
    I am somewhat sympathetic to the argument you are describing. Imagine if income tax was not automatically deducted from your paycheck, but required you to save and physically send money to the IRS (like most 1099 contractors have to do). I think the overall feeling about tax for the bottom 60% of earners would be a little different, whereas now they see getting back some forced savings as a little reward. The government is highly incentivized to automate and disguise that activity further.
    - landemva 3y ago
      There was no employer withholding originally. People wrote a check each year, which made the amounts very visible to each person. Employer withholding keeps it quiet and low-key so few resist the takings. "Current Tax Payment Act of 1943" https://lawcat.berkeley.edu/record/191355 https://lawcat.berkeley.edu/record/191355
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    That would be a really regressive change in terms of who pays and how much they pay. There are also very simple tax systems that are not regressive, like the UK or most of Europe's systems. Just eliminate most deductions and the ones you keep, decouple from taxes. Then 90% of employees can just have their tax deducted at source and not file anything. Like the UK and European systems. All of the big ones are just automated in most places (here in the UK, investment income is taxed at source, allowances for kids are done automatically based on birth record and the tax authority automatically tell employers rates including for those with multiple jobs)
    - landemva 3y ago
      Having lived and worked in Europe, I submitted yearly tax returns to various countries. The German payroll taxes were particularly troublesome to understand. And the countries had high sales taxes with VAT which causes more paperwork and encourages companies to vertically integrate.
      - LatteLazy 3y ago
        Vat is specifically designed NOT to encourage vertical intergration. That's why it is structured the way it is and not paid by companies. I can't comment on the exact details of the German tax system. Here in the UK, I've done 4 tax returns in 22 years of working. All were because I was contracting via a limited company so there was no other way for HMRC to know what was earning. What was the complexity around the German system? I understand they are federal (with state as well as local and federal taxes)...
- landemva 3y ago
  Yes simlified taxes - repeal the personal income tax and replace with consumption-based sales tax. No more W2 withholding, no more individual fed/state filing, no more deduction games, no need for tax prep sites. Maybe the sales tax would be zero rate for uncooked food at grocery stores.
  - mint2 3y ago
    So enact a hugely regressive tax that hits poor people the hardest as a percent of income, while lets rich people accumulate obscene wealth tax free? That’s what funding everything with sales tax does.
    - landemva 3y ago
      Poor people don't have mortgage interest deduction and other tax deduction acrobatics, so poor people are harmed today. And removal of paycheck W2 withholding would be a take home pay increase. The tax prep sites and government paper pushers would have to find something else to do for work. The corporate income tax could remain, if you like.
      - thrashh 3y ago
        That has nothing to do with the deductions they get now? If W2 withholding was removed, people who have more take home pay then go into debt when taxes were due.
        landemva 3y ago
        To clarify, I suggest remove the personal income tax so there is no need for W2 withholding. Replace with a sales tax, with basic necessities having zero rate sales tax.
      - mint2 3y ago
        Poor people are harmed by the loopholes not the inherent principles, so instead of fixing the loopholes the proposal is to move a plan that inherently hurts poor people, no loop holes needed. Wow what a great plan.
- ryaneager 3y ago
  Let’s do that with utility companies and ISPs while we’re at it. Make it better for everyone.
- Natsu 3y ago
  I don't want the tax code simplified, I want them to send me a tax bill and for that to be the end of the story for those of us not running a business.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    We can do both of those things only if we mandate a lot more financial data sharing with the government.
    - jononomo 3y ago
      All financial data should be shared with the government. Also, the government should have access to your ID and social security number and address.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        Easier said than done. Given the depth and breadth of the tax code and the types of information that might be relevant, I don't see how it could be automated as-is without violating the 4th amendment.
        jononomo 3y ago
        Where does automation come into this?
    - aiisjustanif 3y ago
      Why anymore they already have a copy of everything my work, brokerages, and banks have.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        W2s and 1099s are common, but they are a very small part of what someone could have on their 1040. If, as proposed above, we'd want to automate it without simplifying the tax code, there is way more information required. You'd need to know nearly every exchange of value that someone makes and why they did it. And they'd need to more closely track where people live, travel, work, etc.
- hnburnsy 3y ago
  Won't happen Congress derives much of its power from punishng and rewarding via the tax code.
starcraft2wol 3y ago
> return-free filing like most other large economy countries. Taxes in the US are not objective. The IRS doesn't have enough information about you to determine how much you need to pay.
- brazzledazzle 3y ago
  This is effectively false for the vast majority of tax payers. Tax preparation services can still exist for the relatively small number of people that require it.
  - starcraft2wol 3y ago
    > This is effectively false for the vast majority of tax payers If you are imagining W2 workers with no business activity, children, inheritance, donations, property, or investments, I think this is actually a tiny portion.
    - tsbischof 3y ago
      So collect the data? In Germany it is standard to classify workers based on marital and child status[0] [0] https://neotax.eu/en/blog/tax-classes-steuerklassen-in-germany https://neotax.eu/en/blog/tax-classes-steuerklassen-in-germa...
    - cloverich 3y ago
      Children and property are easily handled by the IRS; people with more sophisticated needs (inheritance, meaningful donations, investments) could still hire a professional to adjust what the IRS calculates. That's effectively what's happening now anyways, its just the IRS doesn't let you take their calculation at face value, you have to file your own and see if it matches. Instead they could just send you "This is what we calculated" and you can do nothing (probably 90% of people) or file as we do today for the special cases you mentioned.
      - starcraft2wol 3y ago
johnea 3y ago
I keep reading these articles. They say that tax sites "shared" or "gave" user data via active pixels, but is that really true? Don't these companies receive money to host the pixels? Didn't these companies actually sell user data? "Giving" and "sharing" are not the same as "selling", yet not one article I've read indicated whether the tax prep compaies received payment for the user data. Does anyone know?
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  My Occam's razor take would be that Google Analytics (and whatever Facebook have) are running on the sites and this is how financial information is being gathered. A generous explanation is that the tax sites were inadvertently offering up this data as a result of the whole analytics buy-in. But you would expect a site dealing with tax info would not be that stupid/naive to allow 3rd party code on their sites without knowing exactly what the repercussions of that are. I could just be blowing smoke out of my ass though.
  - johnea 3y ago
    Well, your intuition was good. Apparently blowing ass smoke was exactly the strategy one company pursued when questioned about the pixels: ...a spokesperson for Ramsey Solutions, said in an email that the company “implemented the Meta Pixel to deliver a more personalized customer experience.” “We did NOT know and were never notified that personal tax information was being collected by Facebook from the Pixel,” Of course, "a more personalized customer experience". Well duh, everybody needs that! "the whole analytics buy-in" is really the issue isn't it? The internet giants are making billions in a surveillance economy, that in the US is a blatant violation of the constitution's 4th amendment. But, nobody really cares about that do they? Well, except the 2nd amendment, because if we aren't armed to the teeth the libtards are coming to take away our burgers! We do live in interesting times...

This should be the reason why these sites should no longer exist. The IRS should have this as a built-in service. Or better yet, return-free filing like most other large economy countries.

ta988 3y ago

It would be easier if the tax code was simplified, oh wait the tax-prep companies are also lobbying against that. Maybe we should dismantle them, take their money away and use that to pay lawyers and tax specialists to simplify the tax code and create a nice and easy filing interface.

TheCleric 3y ago
That is a huge part of it, but I've heard one of the other major barriers are people who are just plain anti-tax since they think anything more centralized would just give the government an excuse to sneak in new taxes.
- starcraft2wol 3y ago
  I am somewhat sympathetic to the argument you are describing. Imagine if income tax was not automatically deducted from your paycheck, but required you to save and physically send money to the IRS (like most 1099 contractors have to do). I think the overall feeling about tax for the bottom 60% of earners would be a little different, whereas now they see getting back some forced savings as a little reward. The government is highly incentivized to automate and disguise that activity further.
  - landemva 3y ago
    There was no employer withholding originally. People wrote a check each year, which made the amounts very visible to each person. Employer withholding keeps it quiet and low-key so few resist the takings. "Current Tax Payment Act of 1943" https://lawcat.berkeley.edu/record/191355 https://lawcat.berkeley.edu/record/191355
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  That would be a really regressive change in terms of who pays and how much they pay. There are also very simple tax systems that are not regressive, like the UK or most of Europe's systems. Just eliminate most deductions and the ones you keep, decouple from taxes. Then 90% of employees can just have their tax deducted at source and not file anything. Like the UK and European systems. All of the big ones are just automated in most places (here in the UK, investment income is taxed at source, allowances for kids are done automatically based on birth record and the tax authority automatically tell employers rates including for those with multiple jobs)
  - landemva 3y ago
    Having lived and worked in Europe, I submitted yearly tax returns to various countries. The German payroll taxes were particularly troublesome to understand. And the countries had high sales taxes with VAT which causes more paperwork and encourages companies to vertically integrate.
    - LatteLazy 3y ago
      Vat is specifically designed NOT to encourage vertical intergration. That's why it is structured the way it is and not paid by companies. I can't comment on the exact details of the German tax system. Here in the UK, I've done 4 tax returns in 22 years of working. All were because I was contracting via a limited company so there was no other way for HMRC to know what was earning. What was the complexity around the German system? I understand they are federal (with state as well as local and federal taxes)...
landemva 3y ago
Yes simlified taxes - repeal the personal income tax and replace with consumption-based sales tax. No more W2 withholding, no more individual fed/state filing, no more deduction games, no need for tax prep sites. Maybe the sales tax would be zero rate for uncooked food at grocery stores.
- mint2 3y ago
  So enact a hugely regressive tax that hits poor people the hardest as a percent of income, while lets rich people accumulate obscene wealth tax free? That’s what funding everything with sales tax does.
  - landemva 3y ago
    Poor people don't have mortgage interest deduction and other tax deduction acrobatics, so poor people are harmed today. And removal of paycheck W2 withholding would be a take home pay increase. The tax prep sites and government paper pushers would have to find something else to do for work. The corporate income tax could remain, if you like.
    - thrashh 3y ago
      That has nothing to do with the deductions they get now? If W2 withholding was removed, people who have more take home pay then go into debt when taxes were due.
      - landemva 3y ago
        To clarify, I suggest remove the personal income tax so there is no need for W2 withholding. Replace with a sales tax, with basic necessities having zero rate sales tax.
    - mint2 3y ago
      Poor people are harmed by the loopholes not the inherent principles, so instead of fixing the loopholes the proposal is to move a plan that inherently hurts poor people, no loop holes needed. Wow what a great plan.
ryaneager 3y ago
Let’s do that with utility companies and ISPs while we’re at it. Make it better for everyone.
Natsu 3y ago
I don't want the tax code simplified, I want them to send me a tax bill and for that to be the end of the story for those of us not running a business.
- kube-system 3y ago
  We can do both of those things only if we mandate a lot more financial data sharing with the government.
  - jononomo 3y ago
    All financial data should be shared with the government. Also, the government should have access to your ID and social security number and address.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      Easier said than done. Given the depth and breadth of the tax code and the types of information that might be relevant, I don't see how it could be automated as-is without violating the 4th amendment.
      - jononomo 3y ago
        Where does automation come into this?
  - aiisjustanif 3y ago
    Why anymore they already have a copy of everything my work, brokerages, and banks have.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      W2s and 1099s are common, but they are a very small part of what someone could have on their 1040. If, as proposed above, we'd want to automate it without simplifying the tax code, there is way more information required. You'd need to know nearly every exchange of value that someone makes and why they did it. And they'd need to more closely track where people live, travel, work, etc.
hnburnsy 3y ago
Won't happen Congress derives much of its power from punishng and rewarding via the tax code.

starcraft2wol 3y ago

> return-free filing like most other large economy countries. Taxes in the US are not objective. The IRS doesn't have enough information about you to determine how much you need to pay.

brazzledazzle 3y ago
This is effectively false for the vast majority of tax payers. Tax preparation services can still exist for the relatively small number of people that require it.
- starcraft2wol 3y ago
  > This is effectively false for the vast majority of tax payers If you are imagining W2 workers with no business activity, children, inheritance, donations, property, or investments, I think this is actually a tiny portion.
  - tsbischof 3y ago
    So collect the data? In Germany it is standard to classify workers based on marital and child status[0] [0] https://neotax.eu/en/blog/tax-classes-steuerklassen-in-germany https://neotax.eu/en/blog/tax-classes-steuerklassen-in-germa...
  - cloverich 3y ago
    Children and property are easily handled by the IRS; people with more sophisticated needs (inheritance, meaningful donations, investments) could still hire a professional to adjust what the IRS calculates. That's effectively what's happening now anyways, its just the IRS doesn't let you take their calculation at face value, you have to file your own and see if it matches. Instead they could just send you "This is what we calculated" and you can do nothing (probably 90% of people) or file as we do today for the special cases you mentioned.
    - starcraft2wol 3y ago

johnea 3y ago

I keep reading these articles. They say that tax sites "shared" or "gave" user data via active pixels, but is that really true? Don't these companies receive money to host the pixels? Didn't these companies actually sell user data? "Giving" and "sharing" are not the same as "selling", yet not one article I've read indicated whether the tax prep compaies received payment for the user data. Does anyone know?

JKCalhoun 3y ago
My Occam's razor take would be that Google Analytics (and whatever Facebook have) are running on the sites and this is how financial information is being gathered. A generous explanation is that the tax sites were inadvertently offering up this data as a result of the whole analytics buy-in. But you would expect a site dealing with tax info would not be that stupid/naive to allow 3rd party code on their sites without knowing exactly what the repercussions of that are. I could just be blowing smoke out of my ass though.
- johnea 3y ago
  Well, your intuition was good. Apparently blowing ass smoke was exactly the strategy one company pursued when questioned about the pixels: ...a spokesperson for Ramsey Solutions, said in an email that the company “implemented the Meta Pixel to deliver a more personalized customer experience.” “We did NOT know and were never notified that personal tax information was being collected by Facebook from the Pixel,” Of course, "a more personalized customer experience". Well duh, everybody needs that! "the whole analytics buy-in" is really the issue isn't it? The internet giants are making billions in a surveillance economy, that in the US is a blatant violation of the constitution's 4th amendment. But, nobody really cares about that do they? Well, except the 2nd amendment, because if we aren't armed to the teeth the libtards are coming to take away our burgers! We do live in interesting times...