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Can you tell me in words the value (V1) or values that you're filtering for with this life choice? And whether there are other values (Vall) that you hold and

Can you tell me in words the value (V1) or values that you're filtering for with this life choice? And whether there are other values (Vall) that you hold and would like your friends to hold. And talk to me about the correlation between V1 and Vall. Because my opinion is that my friends willingness (or preference) to use a non secure messaging app owned by a giant tech corp has very very very low correlation with whether I'd like them to be a friend.

nl 3y ago
I agree with this completely. I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur. "Everyone I know hates WhatsApp/Facebook/whatever" says the person who refuses to communicate via those platforms.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  > I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur No it isn't. You'd be surprised in the variety of people that you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. Just because you only maintain relationships with people who are not so glued to WhatsApp that they won't communicate through any other means, does not mean you have created a bubble for yourself.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    So do you just call random phone numbers or something?
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      They might walk somewhere and talk to some of the people they see on the way. They might do something when they get there and talk to people who are doing the same thing (or who just happen to be there).
      - kalleboo 3y ago
        People who use WhatsApp also go places, do things and talk to people. They don't sit at home alone in their room on WhatsApp 24/7. That's what Hacker News is for.
        Zambyte 3y ago
        Then guess what? You might not find yourself in a bubble if you stop using WhatsApp. Which... is exactly what I said before.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        > People who use WhatsApp also go places, do things and talk to people. I'm sure that is true. I was suggesting alternative ideas to calling random phone numbers as a means of getting out of one's "bubble".
  - twelve40 3y ago
    i use whatsapp to call my grandma and my aunt among other people, because that's what they use. Actually, my parents too, now that i think about it, they fall back to whatsapp all the time. How in tf is that an "algorithmic people-meeting system"??? did it pick a grandma for me according to some algorithm?
    - Zambyte 3y ago
      > think about it, they fall back to whatsapp all the time. How in tf is that an "algorithmic people-meeting system"??? It isn't. Nor did I say it was. The person I replied to said that not using WhatsApp is how social bubbles are formed. It isn't. That's what I was refuting.
  - nl 3y ago
    Actually it is. It's true you are always able to avoid bubbles, and nothing I say precludes that ability. However, information bubbles are a function of friction and defaults. If communication lessens with a people who don't share a particular view (ie, that Whatsapp has to be avoided) then that friction lessens exposure to that viewpoint, forming a bubble. > you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. AFAIK there is no algorithmic system on Whatsapp to meet people.
Aeolun 3y ago
I think it’s a negative correlation. I’m fairly likely to like people that realize a FB monopoly on communication isn’t a good thing.
- oblio 3y ago
  Or you just exclude all non-ideologues and most non-techies that don't give a crap. Which I guess is a useful filter if you want to be surrounded by techies and ideologues.
  - twelve40 3y ago
    Most non-techies don't give a crap indeed. Maybe these people haven't traveled much at all. When you are in the middle of a non-US city, you're trying to get the keys to your stay and the night is falling, you fire up that one messenger you're not supposed to use because zuck bad, and figure out the key situation in 1 second. Then you lecture your newfound "whatsapp bubble friend" who brought you the keys about how low and unethical it is of them to use whatsapp.
ljm 3y ago
This is a useful thing to consider when using social media or, say, dating apps in general, come to think of it. Like you, the choice of messaging app is quite beside the point (except FB Messenger being out of the question for reasons I'll explain). So, I still use a combination of WhatsApp, Signal and Skype. If a friendship depended on me having a Twitter/FB/TikTok/Instagram profile though, I'm more likely to let that fade away. Similarly with dating: it'd be a dealbreaker to have to maintain a social media presence or find someone solely through Tinder or Bumble or whatever. I enjoy life more without social media in it, and without tech companies gatekeeping human connection through a mobile app. Some things just have to stay offline for the sake of me and my mental health.

nl 3y ago

I agree with this completely. I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur. "Everyone I know hates WhatsApp/Facebook/whatever" says the person who refuses to communicate via those platforms.

Zambyte 3y ago
> I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur No it isn't. You'd be surprised in the variety of people that you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. Just because you only maintain relationships with people who are not so glued to WhatsApp that they won't communicate through any other means, does not mean you have created a bubble for yourself.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  So do you just call random phone numbers or something?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    They might walk somewhere and talk to some of the people they see on the way. They might do something when they get there and talk to people who are doing the same thing (or who just happen to be there).
    - kalleboo 3y ago
      People who use WhatsApp also go places, do things and talk to people. They don't sit at home alone in their room on WhatsApp 24/7. That's what Hacker News is for.
      - Zambyte 3y ago
        Then guess what? You might not find yourself in a bubble if you stop using WhatsApp. Which... is exactly what I said before.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        > People who use WhatsApp also go places, do things and talk to people. I'm sure that is true. I was suggesting alternative ideas to calling random phone numbers as a means of getting out of one's "bubble".
- twelve40 3y ago
  i use whatsapp to call my grandma and my aunt among other people, because that's what they use. Actually, my parents too, now that i think about it, they fall back to whatsapp all the time. How in tf is that an "algorithmic people-meeting system"??? did it pick a grandma for me according to some algorithm?
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    > think about it, they fall back to whatsapp all the time. How in tf is that an "algorithmic people-meeting system"??? It isn't. Nor did I say it was. The person I replied to said that not using WhatsApp is how social bubbles are formed. It isn't. That's what I was refuting.
- nl 3y ago
  Actually it is. It's true you are always able to avoid bubbles, and nothing I say precludes that ability. However, information bubbles are a function of friction and defaults. If communication lessens with a people who don't share a particular view (ie, that Whatsapp has to be avoided) then that friction lessens exposure to that viewpoint, forming a bubble. > you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. AFAIK there is no algorithmic system on Whatsapp to meet people.

Aeolun 3y ago

I think it’s a negative correlation. I’m fairly likely to like people that realize a FB monopoly on communication isn’t a good thing.

oblio 3y ago
Or you just exclude all non-ideologues and most non-techies that don't give a crap. Which I guess is a useful filter if you want to be surrounded by techies and ideologues.
- twelve40 3y ago
  Most non-techies don't give a crap indeed. Maybe these people haven't traveled much at all. When you are in the middle of a non-US city, you're trying to get the keys to your stay and the night is falling, you fire up that one messenger you're not supposed to use because zuck bad, and figure out the key situation in 1 second. Then you lecture your newfound "whatsapp bubble friend" who brought you the keys about how low and unethical it is of them to use whatsapp.

ljm 3y ago

This is a useful thing to consider when using social media or, say, dating apps in general, come to think of it. Like you, the choice of messaging app is quite beside the point (except FB Messenger being out of the question for reasons I'll explain). So, I still use a combination of WhatsApp, Signal and Skype. If a friendship depended on me having a Twitter/FB/TikTok/Instagram profile though, I'm more likely to let that fade away. Similarly with dating: it'd be a dealbreaker to have to maintain a social media presence or find someone solely through Tinder or Bumble or whatever. I enjoy life more without social media in it, and without tech companies gatekeeping human connection through a mobile app. Some things just have to stay offline for the sake of me and my mental health.