5 ms·

Same, but I'm pretty happy about it. I want my friends to share similar values and this is a good filter for that.

by computerfriend 3y ago

mortehu 3y ago
Wow, and this is despite the fact that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and not monetized?
- ElFitz 3y ago
  I’d be interested to know what, if anything, Meta does with WhatsApp metadata.
  - dguest 3y ago
    I'd be interested to know too, the social graphs they can build must be mesmerizing to browse through.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    How does Meta make money? That is your answer.
    - ElFitz 3y ago
      We can suppose endlessly and make all the assumptions we want. I am more interested in facts.
      - sixstringtheory 3y ago
        Here’s a fact: Meta grossed $117 billion in 2022. Almost as much as a major car manufacturer. They’re doing things with that data. It’s a scary amount of power.
        ElFitz 3y ago
        Hence my curiosity regarding the specifics.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  It is an extraordinary expectation that a piece of software under that ownership will not collect data.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    It's also an extraordinary expectation that your friends will use the messaging system you dictate.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      If I tell a friend "I am not going to use WhatsApp. But you can call me, email me, text me, use Signal, use Matrix, knock on my door..." and this friend refuses to keep in touch, who is the one "dictating" the messaging system?
      - harshalizee 3y ago
        You. If 20 of your friend's are using Whatsapp to communicate just fine, and you demand they change their mode of communication to suit your needs. I'm starting to see why the trope of techies are anti social is so prevalent. Some of you really are absolutely socially inept.
        rglullis 3y ago
        I'm not asking them to change their mode of communication with others. I'm just saying that I'm not going to join something that I believe to be harmful out of peer pressure. > Some of you really are absolutely socially inept. So if someone tells you "I'm sorry, I am not available at this channel, can we arrange some other method?" and you refuse to accomodate you take the other as socially inept? It seems like you are projecting. Hard.
        mdp2021 3y ago
        This is madness, I will say it explicitly, spelt-out. There exist systems which may violate your privacy, and you think that a possible demand to use them from any third party would be "fair", aproblematic?! Good normalcy is that if some acquaintance put as a condition any controversial constraint, such as destructive behaviour ("binge drinking" etc.), irresponsible behaviour, degrading behaviour (that spyware is part of this latter) - the reply is simply "No". And that would be antisocial behaviour, "No, I will not get tattooed (etc.) just because you would like that"?! Children have replaced Men in this world. Edit: oh, and by the way: behaviour that would stick to the framework of proper Society would be «[anti-]social»?!?!?! That is a dire reversal terms, and it shows the (satanic) perversity these """societies""" have reached.
- rglullis 3y ago
  - They don't need your contact list to still build your contact graph. - They still collect things like your location, your call history, etc. In Brazil it's quite common for people to use WhatsApp to call their doctors. This means that Facebook can know what type of health issues you have just by checking if you are calling/texting a specialist. - They are still owned by Facebook and they take whatever data they can to feed the Borg. - I can not prove it, but I am convinced that they scan the video stream in the device.
  - distcs 3y ago
    > I can not prove it, but I am convinced that they scan the video stream in the device. You can't prove it, alright. But do you mind sharing why you are convinced they scan the video stream?
    - rglullis 3y ago
      In a public forum, I do mind it. Sorry. It's nothing really embarrassing or wrong, but I worry that it might be taken out of context.
      - distcs 3y ago
        Ok. that's fair. thanks for taking the time to respond. appreciate it.
    - qwery 3y ago
      Why wouldn't you assume they do? Sorry if that sounds argumentative, it's not my intent. As I understand it, their software processes everything you send to/through them. (And it's easy to imagine reasons why they would be interested in doing so)
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Taking your first three points as true, the trade is you get free global multi-way instant messaging, including pictures and video/audio clips, and video calling, for no cost other than minimal data costs. Lots of people are currently willing to make that trade, at least until a competitor comes along that offers something better.
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  I recently started using WhatsApp regularly because it's the only convenient end-to-end encrypted messaging app I know. The only thing they seem to be getting out of it is some metadata and the opportunity to sell services to businesses. Seems like an acceptable compromise to me. Previously I used Matrix/Element but never got it to work reliably with my friends (decryption issues, session verification obsession). And Signal has no web app. So WhatsApp it is for now.
badcppdev 3y ago
Can you tell me in words the value (V1) or values that you're filtering for with this life choice? And whether there are other values (Vall) that you hold and would like your friends to hold. And talk to me about the correlation between V1 and Vall. Because my opinion is that my friends willingness (or preference) to use a non secure messaging app owned by a giant tech corp has very very very low correlation with whether I'd like them to be a friend.
- nl 3y ago
  I agree with this completely. I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur. "Everyone I know hates WhatsApp/Facebook/whatever" says the person who refuses to communicate via those platforms.
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    > I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur No it isn't. You'd be surprised in the variety of people that you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. Just because you only maintain relationships with people who are not so glued to WhatsApp that they won't communicate through any other means, does not mean you have created a bubble for yourself.
    - kalleboo 3y ago
      So do you just call random phone numbers or something?
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        They might walk somewhere and talk to some of the people they see on the way. They might do something when they get there and talk to people who are doing the same thing (or who just happen to be there).
        kalleboo 3y ago
emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sanderjd 3y ago
I want friends with a diverse set of viewpoints and values, within a pretty broad window.

Same, but I'm pretty happy about it. I want my friends to share similar values and this is a good filter for that.

mortehu 3y ago

Wow, and this is despite the fact that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and not monetized?

ElFitz 3y ago
I’d be interested to know what, if anything, Meta does with WhatsApp metadata.
- dguest 3y ago
  I'd be interested to know too, the social graphs they can build must be mesmerizing to browse through.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  How does Meta make money? That is your answer.
  - ElFitz 3y ago
    We can suppose endlessly and make all the assumptions we want. I am more interested in facts.
    - sixstringtheory 3y ago
      Here’s a fact: Meta grossed $117 billion in 2022. Almost as much as a major car manufacturer. They’re doing things with that data. It’s a scary amount of power.
      - ElFitz 3y ago
        Hence my curiosity regarding the specifics.
mdp2021 3y ago
It is an extraordinary expectation that a piece of software under that ownership will not collect data.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  It's also an extraordinary expectation that your friends will use the messaging system you dictate.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    If I tell a friend "I am not going to use WhatsApp. But you can call me, email me, text me, use Signal, use Matrix, knock on my door..." and this friend refuses to keep in touch, who is the one "dictating" the messaging system?
    - harshalizee 3y ago
      You. If 20 of your friend's are using Whatsapp to communicate just fine, and you demand they change their mode of communication to suit your needs. I'm starting to see why the trope of techies are anti social is so prevalent. Some of you really are absolutely socially inept.
      - rglullis 3y ago
        I'm not asking them to change their mode of communication with others. I'm just saying that I'm not going to join something that I believe to be harmful out of peer pressure. > Some of you really are absolutely socially inept. So if someone tells you "I'm sorry, I am not available at this channel, can we arrange some other method?" and you refuse to accomodate you take the other as socially inept? It seems like you are projecting. Hard.
      - mdp2021 3y ago
        This is madness, I will say it explicitly, spelt-out. There exist systems which may violate your privacy, and you think that a possible demand to use them from any third party would be "fair", aproblematic?! Good normalcy is that if some acquaintance put as a condition any controversial constraint, such as destructive behaviour ("binge drinking" etc.), irresponsible behaviour, degrading behaviour (that spyware is part of this latter) - the reply is simply "No". And that would be antisocial behaviour, "No, I will not get tattooed (etc.) just because you would like that"?! Children have replaced Men in this world. Edit: oh, and by the way: behaviour that would stick to the framework of proper Society would be «[anti-]social»?!?!?! That is a dire reversal terms, and it shows the (satanic) perversity these """societies""" have reached.
rglullis 3y ago
- They don't need your contact list to still build your contact graph. - They still collect things like your location, your call history, etc. In Brazil it's quite common for people to use WhatsApp to call their doctors. This means that Facebook can know what type of health issues you have just by checking if you are calling/texting a specialist. - They are still owned by Facebook and they take whatever data they can to feed the Borg. - I can not prove it, but I am convinced that they scan the video stream in the device.
- distcs 3y ago
  > I can not prove it, but I am convinced that they scan the video stream in the device. You can't prove it, alright. But do you mind sharing why you are convinced they scan the video stream?
  - rglullis 3y ago
    In a public forum, I do mind it. Sorry. It's nothing really embarrassing or wrong, but I worry that it might be taken out of context.
    - distcs 3y ago
      Ok. that's fair. thanks for taking the time to respond. appreciate it.
  - qwery 3y ago
    Why wouldn't you assume they do? Sorry if that sounds argumentative, it's not my intent. As I understand it, their software processes everything you send to/through them. (And it's easy to imagine reasons why they would be interested in doing so)
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Taking your first three points as true, the trade is you get free global multi-way instant messaging, including pictures and video/audio clips, and video calling, for no cost other than minimal data costs. Lots of people are currently willing to make that trade, at least until a competitor comes along that offers something better.
fauigerzigerk 3y ago
I recently started using WhatsApp regularly because it's the only convenient end-to-end encrypted messaging app I know. The only thing they seem to be getting out of it is some metadata and the opportunity to sell services to businesses. Seems like an acceptable compromise to me. Previously I used Matrix/Element but never got it to work reliably with my friends (decryption issues, session verification obsession). And Signal has no web app. So WhatsApp it is for now.

badcppdev 3y ago

Can you tell me in words the value (V1) or values that you're filtering for with this life choice? And whether there are other values (Vall) that you hold and would like your friends to hold. And talk to me about the correlation between V1 and Vall. Because my opinion is that my friends willingness (or preference) to use a non secure messaging app owned by a giant tech corp has very very very low correlation with whether I'd like them to be a friend.

nl 3y ago
I agree with this completely. I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur. "Everyone I know hates WhatsApp/Facebook/whatever" says the person who refuses to communicate via those platforms.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  > I'd also point out that this is exactly how bubbles occur No it isn't. You'd be surprised in the variety of people that you meet when you don't use algorithmic systems to do so. Just because you only maintain relationships with people who are not so glued to WhatsApp that they won't communicate through any other means, does not mean you have created a bubble for yourself.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    So do you just call random phone numbers or something?
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      They might walk somewhere and talk to some of the people they see on the way. They might do something when they get there and talk to people who are doing the same thing (or who just happen to be there).
      - kalleboo 3y ago

emptyfile 3y ago

[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

sanderjd 3y ago

I want friends with a diverse set of viewpoints and values, within a pretty broad window.