4 ms·

Macs have excellent hardware, but obsolete software equivalent to what Windows and Linux had years ago. I wonder about how well Linux runs on the latest Mac har

Macs have excellent hardware, but obsolete software equivalent to what Windows and Linux had years ago. I wonder about how well Linux runs on the latest Mac hardware...

Banditoz 3y ago
It's becoming a thing: https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/
moolcool 3y ago
What is obsolete about Mac software? It seems like much of Windows' evolution since 7 is just ads and janky telemetry features which nobody wants.
- nortonham 3y ago
  every windows after 7 is awful. ads and random ui changes.
- felipetrz 3y ago
  MacOS is still stuck in the 90s skeuomorphic design bs, and prevents users from changing any aspect of the UI to achieve a minimum of comfort and productivity. The UI is buggy, pop-up windows steal focus all the time, window management is pretty much nonexistent, there are slow animations with laggy focus changes. It may be fine for a soft user who just uses a browser, but trying to do any serious work on a mac is a nightmare compared to a modern tiling WM on linux.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    For any "serious work" you'd spend 90% of the time in a terminal anyway, so that's not much of an issue tbh (ok, admittedly that's a very coder-centric perspective).
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      Those talking about "serious" work are usually gatekeepers. Perhaps the revenue my code generates isn't "serious", but I'm happy to sit down at any Mac with Visual Studio Code and drag and drop my way to the bank instead of spending hours getting my dotfiles to artisanal perfection.
    - felipetrz 3y ago
      You'd at least have to switch between your terminal and a browser window, which already hits macos' horrible focus bugs when window switching.
      - flohofwoe 3y ago
        True, except that the weird Alt-Tabbing behaviour on Mac is not a bug, but it's supposed to work that way (it switches between applications - even applications that don't have any windows open). I don't like that behaviour either, but technically it's not a bug even if it feels like that when coming from other desktop environments.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    Is it? I don't see anything on my desktop I'd consider skeumorphic. Perhaps I'm privileged, but to me using multiple monitors each with a full focus, and swipe gestures to move between desktops, is as useful as any tiling WM.
- arsome 3y ago
  WSL
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    WSL always seemed to me like Microsoft's admission of being late to POSIX.
- glimshe 3y ago
  As a daily Mac and Windows user... I could write a large article, and when people ask me this, I always say a different thing - because there are too many. So there it is today's: Leave my screen real estate alone, please get rid of this annoying menu bar that gets in the way when I'm trying to use the mouse to switch tabs in the application. This is UI thinking from the 1980s. It's very easy to misclick the tab because of the fine control skills required to avoid the menu bar. I don't want full screen because of my multi-monitor setup. Interestingly, speaking of multimonitor... Connecting my M2 to my gaming monitor... Windows syncs with the monitor in 3 seconds, the Mac takes 10 seconds.
flohofwoe 3y ago
With homebrew or a similar package manager that's not really an issue though? I'm pretty much on the bleeding edge of software versions for all my coder needs on my M1 Mac.
bdcravens 3y ago
Perhaps we are using different parts of the OS, but I find myself using my Mac intuitively in ways that would require some third-party utilities or digging around in the Control Panel. For example, throwing a browser window up on a mid-range smart TV using AirPlay without plugging in any cables. Reading my text messages on the desktop. Even copy and paste in the terminal without having to use an extra modifier key.
otikik 3y ago
If "modern" software is "having updates about the Kardasians on my start menu" then I'd rather have "obsolete" software.
- glimshe 3y ago
  Most people are interested (by definition) in pop culture. My mom, an "average user", loves these little updates. That's actually why I mentioned Linux and Windows, they serve different parts of the spectrum a lot better (hardcore vs average) user. You can see, right there in your statement, the problem with Macs: they cater to a wealthy coastal technology elite that believes they know better than everybody else.
  - otikik 3y ago
    In agree in that there is someone on this thread who believes they know better than everybody else.

Macs have excellent hardware, but obsolete software equivalent to what Windows and Linux had years ago. I wonder about how well Linux runs on the latest Mac hardware...

Banditoz 3y ago

It's becoming a thing: https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/

moolcool 3y ago

What is obsolete about Mac software? It seems like much of Windows' evolution since 7 is just ads and janky telemetry features which nobody wants.

nortonham 3y ago
every windows after 7 is awful. ads and random ui changes.
felipetrz 3y ago
MacOS is still stuck in the 90s skeuomorphic design bs, and prevents users from changing any aspect of the UI to achieve a minimum of comfort and productivity. The UI is buggy, pop-up windows steal focus all the time, window management is pretty much nonexistent, there are slow animations with laggy focus changes. It may be fine for a soft user who just uses a browser, but trying to do any serious work on a mac is a nightmare compared to a modern tiling WM on linux.
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  For any "serious work" you'd spend 90% of the time in a terminal anyway, so that's not much of an issue tbh (ok, admittedly that's a very coder-centric perspective).
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    Those talking about "serious" work are usually gatekeepers. Perhaps the revenue my code generates isn't "serious", but I'm happy to sit down at any Mac with Visual Studio Code and drag and drop my way to the bank instead of spending hours getting my dotfiles to artisanal perfection.
  - felipetrz 3y ago
    You'd at least have to switch between your terminal and a browser window, which already hits macos' horrible focus bugs when window switching.
    - flohofwoe 3y ago
      True, except that the weird Alt-Tabbing behaviour on Mac is not a bug, but it's supposed to work that way (it switches between applications - even applications that don't have any windows open). I don't like that behaviour either, but technically it's not a bug even if it feels like that when coming from other desktop environments.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  Is it? I don't see anything on my desktop I'd consider skeumorphic. Perhaps I'm privileged, but to me using multiple monitors each with a full focus, and swipe gestures to move between desktops, is as useful as any tiling WM.
arsome 3y ago
WSL
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  WSL always seemed to me like Microsoft's admission of being late to POSIX.
glimshe 3y ago
As a daily Mac and Windows user... I could write a large article, and when people ask me this, I always say a different thing - because there are too many. So there it is today's: Leave my screen real estate alone, please get rid of this annoying menu bar that gets in the way when I'm trying to use the mouse to switch tabs in the application. This is UI thinking from the 1980s. It's very easy to misclick the tab because of the fine control skills required to avoid the menu bar. I don't want full screen because of my multi-monitor setup. Interestingly, speaking of multimonitor... Connecting my M2 to my gaming monitor... Windows syncs with the monitor in 3 seconds, the Mac takes 10 seconds.

flohofwoe 3y ago

With homebrew or a similar package manager that's not really an issue though? I'm pretty much on the bleeding edge of software versions for all my coder needs on my M1 Mac.

bdcravens 3y ago

Perhaps we are using different parts of the OS, but I find myself using my Mac intuitively in ways that would require some third-party utilities or digging around in the Control Panel. For example, throwing a browser window up on a mid-range smart TV using AirPlay without plugging in any cables. Reading my text messages on the desktop. Even copy and paste in the terminal without having to use an extra modifier key.

otikik 3y ago

If "modern" software is "having updates about the Kardasians on my start menu" then I'd rather have "obsolete" software.

glimshe 3y ago
Most people are interested (by definition) in pop culture. My mom, an "average user", loves these little updates. That's actually why I mentioned Linux and Windows, they serve different parts of the spectrum a lot better (hardcore vs average) user. You can see, right there in your statement, the problem with Macs: they cater to a wealthy coastal technology elite that believes they know better than everybody else.
- otikik 3y ago
  In agree in that there is someone on this thread who believes they know better than everybody else.