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Lol no. This is a wholly disingeneous move. "[SuSe] ... announced it is forking publicly available Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and will develop and maintai

Lol no. This is a wholly disingeneous move. "[SuSe] ... announced it is forking publicly available Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and will develop and maintain a RHEL-compatible distribution available to all without restrictions." How will they confirm that their fork is compatible? Probably using RedHat supplied UBI docker/container images. So they're just becoming another add-no-value clone. Wow, give whoever came up with this idea a nobel peace prize. Instead they could focus on their own offerings which add value/different value propositions than just being a clone of RHEL. I can't believe folks would be okay with companies coming in and undercutting your validation work -- even if you see RHEL as anachronistic and obsolete in teh world of containers and such it still has value for some folks for its RHEL-ness -- and then coming in and selling clones undercutting support and other licensing/revenue streams to pay for the QA/R&D/devel, etc.

piaste 3y ago
Well, nobody's stopping IBM from retaliating by offering a SUSE clone :)
- gigatexal 3y ago
  Funny but how does that help the community or businesses adopt Linux really?
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    Is that a trick question? Multiple suppliers of binary compatible releases; no fragmentation whatsoever, just more supply. How could that not help?
pgeorgi 3y ago
> How will they confirm that they're fork is compatible? The only thing they need to ensure right now is that their stable release remains compatible to existing RHEL. Everything needed for that is around. Going forward, maybe "RHEL v+1 compatible" doesn't even matter anymore (to quote that press release: "CIQ is thrilled to collaborate with SUSE on advancing an open enterprise Linux standard.") RHEL became the defacto "Enterprise Linux" because everybody willingly handed them the control over the direction Enterprise Linux takes (including, but not limited to, by merely repackaging their work). As long as that new community system (Rocky intends to work with SUSE according to that article) remains RHEL9.2 compatible, they might be able to force IBM to adopt the community's idea of an Enterprise Linux for future RHEL releases. Keeping some "RHEL9.2 mode" around indefinitely (next to a further developed platform for contemporary workloads) is relatively simple with containers and the like. IBM might have just killed the one thing that kept RedHat dominant in that space: the goodwill of nearly everybody else to let RedHat lead and not rock the boat too much themselves.
- gigatexal 3y ago
  I’m not saying it’s the best business model just saying that all these companies are undercutting RedHat out of spite/business. Oh well. RedHat should take this opportunity to pivot and do something else. Holding on to licensing is dying especially in the world of clones.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    pivot to what? i may be completely wrong on this (and i hope i am wrong) but i have the impression that licensing is the only thing really profitable in the corporate world. i believe support only works if it is combined with licensing because the margins are much lower otherwise. red hat could not pay for all the engineers they have now on support contracts alone.
    - gigatexal 3y ago
      Could be. It very well could be that the whole RH model dies with the success of clones. I was more-or-less just spitballing. But what are they to do? I guess double down? And try to increase their value add but then if it comes from software quality or their QA/validation that goes into making RHEL the clones will get it for free too
      - em-bee 3y ago
        i don't think the clones themselves are the problem, but the commercial support available for clones is taking away business from red hat, and that is where the conflict lies. in a way it is actually a similar problem with amazon and the like offering commercial support for databases. that is an inherent problem in the FOSS model. on one hand it is great that anyone can offer support for any FOSS software, but when big companies offer that support without giving back to the projects themselves they are undermining the sustainability of the projects. but i don't have a clue how to solve that, other than everyone just being more considerate and not take advantage of the developers.
        3y ago
GlacierFox 3y ago
Totally agree, that was my first impression after reading. If anything, it seems antagonistic and petty. I mean, why would you not just focus on your own product rather than put resources towards this strange 'Look we're helping! Red Hat Bad!' stance that offers no value to anyone.
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  SUSE has customers with mixed-distro deployments that were supported by SUSE Liberty Linux. Those customers might have had questions about what happens now. This seems to be one part of the answer.
hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
RedHat also built their business on the backs of other peoples work, sure they make contributions back but I’m sure they’re minuscule when compared to profit. They read, understood and accepted licences for the products they on-sell and are now throwing their toys out of the pram when the free market does what it was always inevitably going to do with their in-house tech.
- ossusermivami 3y ago
  > but I’m sure they’re minuscule when compared to profit. how can you be so sure? Do you have insights on Red Hat finance we don't know about?
  - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
    [dead]
  - ZiiS 3y ago
    They were publically traded till 2019 so thier finances were known. Having said that RH have and do contribute huge amounts.

piaste 3y ago

Well, nobody's stopping IBM from retaliating by offering a SUSE clone :)

gigatexal 3y ago
Funny but how does that help the community or businesses adopt Linux really?
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  Is that a trick question? Multiple suppliers of binary compatible releases; no fragmentation whatsoever, just more supply. How could that not help?

pgeorgi 3y ago

> How will they confirm that they're fork is compatible? The only thing they need to ensure right now is that their stable release remains compatible to existing RHEL. Everything needed for that is around. Going forward, maybe "RHEL v+1 compatible" doesn't even matter anymore (to quote that press release: "CIQ is thrilled to collaborate with SUSE on advancing an open enterprise Linux standard.") RHEL became the defacto "Enterprise Linux" because everybody willingly handed them the control over the direction Enterprise Linux takes (including, but not limited to, by merely repackaging their work). As long as that new community system (Rocky intends to work with SUSE according to that article) remains RHEL9.2 compatible, they might be able to force IBM to adopt the community's idea of an Enterprise Linux for future RHEL releases. Keeping some "RHEL9.2 mode" around indefinitely (next to a further developed platform for contemporary workloads) is relatively simple with containers and the like. IBM might have just killed the one thing that kept RedHat dominant in that space: the goodwill of nearly everybody else to let RedHat lead and not rock the boat too much themselves.

gigatexal 3y ago
I’m not saying it’s the best business model just saying that all these companies are undercutting RedHat out of spite/business. Oh well. RedHat should take this opportunity to pivot and do something else. Holding on to licensing is dying especially in the world of clones.
- em-bee 3y ago
  pivot to what? i may be completely wrong on this (and i hope i am wrong) but i have the impression that licensing is the only thing really profitable in the corporate world. i believe support only works if it is combined with licensing because the margins are much lower otherwise. red hat could not pay for all the engineers they have now on support contracts alone.
  - gigatexal 3y ago
    Could be. It very well could be that the whole RH model dies with the success of clones. I was more-or-less just spitballing. But what are they to do? I guess double down? And try to increase their value add but then if it comes from software quality or their QA/validation that goes into making RHEL the clones will get it for free too
    - em-bee 3y ago
      i don't think the clones themselves are the problem, but the commercial support available for clones is taking away business from red hat, and that is where the conflict lies. in a way it is actually a similar problem with amazon and the like offering commercial support for databases. that is an inherent problem in the FOSS model. on one hand it is great that anyone can offer support for any FOSS software, but when big companies offer that support without giving back to the projects themselves they are undermining the sustainability of the projects. but i don't have a clue how to solve that, other than everyone just being more considerate and not take advantage of the developers.
      - 3y ago

GlacierFox 3y ago

Totally agree, that was my first impression after reading. If anything, it seems antagonistic and petty. I mean, why would you not just focus on your own product rather than put resources towards this strange 'Look we're helping! Red Hat Bad!' stance that offers no value to anyone.

pgeorgi 3y ago
SUSE has customers with mixed-distro deployments that were supported by SUSE Liberty Linux. Those customers might have had questions about what happens now. This seems to be one part of the answer.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago

RedHat also built their business on the backs of other peoples work, sure they make contributions back but I’m sure they’re minuscule when compared to profit. They read, understood and accepted licences for the products they on-sell and are now throwing their toys out of the pram when the free market does what it was always inevitably going to do with their in-house tech.

ossusermivami 3y ago
> but I’m sure they’re minuscule when compared to profit. how can you be so sure? Do you have insights on Red Hat finance we don't know about?
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  [dead]
- ZiiS 3y ago
  They were publically traded till 2019 so thier finances were known. Having said that RH have and do contribute huge amounts.