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Are you saying that Atmos and Spatial Audio are snake oil, no different than ordinary stereo headphones? If so, seems like Eno would be very low on the list of

Are you saying that Atmos and Spatial Audio are snake oil, no different than ordinary stereo headphones? If so, seems like Eno would be very low on the list of offenders--though I don't buy it.

piva00 3y ago
For music it's pretty much snake oil. Benn Jordan has a good take on it [0]. [0] https://youtu.be/5Dw3aKbw5Wo https://youtu.be/5Dw3aKbw5Wo
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  That's a great video. If I recall from watching it when the video came out - Atmos is much more of a marketing thing. Converting old stereo tracks to Atmos is pure snake oil, and from a technical perspective even when you know what you are doing it's hard to get an Atmos stream connected to an Atmos player connected to Atmos speakers so you can easily end up with the system falling back to stereo. Even when you get it working, the technical benefits are questionable and again you have the issue that most music in existence was authored for stereo, and trying to modify that audio to produce some kind of effect on Atmos is going to be arbitrarily messing with a musician's intent and probably produce a worse result. It is easy to hear the technical claims and think "okay that makes sense" but what I like about the video is that Benn Jordan explores the actual implementation as a regular consumer, finds complexity in deployment, finally gets it working and then talks about the musical merits as a music producer and musician. I believe he also finds Atmos versions of his own tracks which have been created by the streaming service, and talks about how basically they are not an improvement.
- harry8 3y ago
  Wow, knew next to nothing about atmos before today. He does a good job, and he really didn't miss. I like him.
harry8 3y ago
I'm saying that if you want to make 3D soundscapes, we've had that tech for many decades. Headphones work for this. But I'll continue and say headphones /will/ also be superior for that purpose to anything using speakers. If you want to try it, get a couple of microphones and put them in a styrophoam mannequin head where the ears would go. Stick some hair on, a nose. Use it to record the left and right channel as you wander around somewhere with some noise sources. Listen to the playback using stereo headphones. It's a very cool, low-tech thing to do. I think I did it as a kid with a cassette recorder. Are you saying any of that is wrong? That whatever Atmos is will get the mix to your left and right ear better than headphones to achieve a 3d sound?
- jcpst 3y ago
  I have an idea. Let’s describe binaural recording, but then not mention it by name. Let’s also say that all of the specialists and engineers that designed atmos didn’t really create anything different and weren’t aware they could just make binaural recordings. Here’s something that’s a big deal- when you mix a stereo recording, you can pan the audio tracks left or right. When you work with something like atmos or a surround system, you have control of where that sounds sits in a spacial field, which then gets played through those cans on the left and right side of the head. It’s different.
  - harry8 3y ago
    Is that what it is called? Binaural? Like bi="2" and aural="relating to the ear or the sense of hearing." First I've heard the term is today, I guess it makes sense as it will only work with 2 ears, just like stereo. But yeah check out the power of my ignorance - everyone understands exactly what I'm talking about and nobody is gate-keeping with jargon. Cool huh? Not by design but that worked well. So Atmos, never said anything about it other than if you want to make 3d soundscapes as Eno claims, he could have done this anytime in the past 4 decades at least. Wikipedia: "Following the release of Atmos for the cinema market, a variety of consumer technologies have been released under the Atmos brand, using in-ceiling and up-firing speakers." -- Now that sounds like tech using speakers to make sound to me but maybe you know better and can correct wikipedia on the point? Wikipedia really relies on experts to correct it to be good. Headphones work better for 3d sound than speakers and have for decades. IMHO Eno would be well aware of this and could have made 3d soundscape albums or versions anytime before now. And it's a great idea, I love it. And enjoyed doing it as as a kid too.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Are you saying that Atmos and Spatial Audio are snake oil, no different than ordinary stereo headphones? If so, seems like Eno would be very low on the list of offenders--though I don't buy it.

piva00 3y ago

For music it's pretty much snake oil. Benn Jordan has a good take on it [0]. [0] https://youtu.be/5Dw3aKbw5Wo https://youtu.be/5Dw3aKbw5Wo

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
That's a great video. If I recall from watching it when the video came out - Atmos is much more of a marketing thing. Converting old stereo tracks to Atmos is pure snake oil, and from a technical perspective even when you know what you are doing it's hard to get an Atmos stream connected to an Atmos player connected to Atmos speakers so you can easily end up with the system falling back to stereo. Even when you get it working, the technical benefits are questionable and again you have the issue that most music in existence was authored for stereo, and trying to modify that audio to produce some kind of effect on Atmos is going to be arbitrarily messing with a musician's intent and probably produce a worse result. It is easy to hear the technical claims and think "okay that makes sense" but what I like about the video is that Benn Jordan explores the actual implementation as a regular consumer, finds complexity in deployment, finally gets it working and then talks about the musical merits as a music producer and musician. I believe he also finds Atmos versions of his own tracks which have been created by the streaming service, and talks about how basically they are not an improvement.
harry8 3y ago
Wow, knew next to nothing about atmos before today. He does a good job, and he really didn't miss. I like him.

harry8 3y ago

I'm saying that if you want to make 3D soundscapes, we've had that tech for many decades. Headphones work for this. But I'll continue and say headphones /will/ also be superior for that purpose to anything using speakers. If you want to try it, get a couple of microphones and put them in a styrophoam mannequin head where the ears would go. Stick some hair on, a nose. Use it to record the left and right channel as you wander around somewhere with some noise sources. Listen to the playback using stereo headphones. It's a very cool, low-tech thing to do. I think I did it as a kid with a cassette recorder. Are you saying any of that is wrong? That whatever Atmos is will get the mix to your left and right ear better than headphones to achieve a 3d sound?

jcpst 3y ago
I have an idea. Let’s describe binaural recording, but then not mention it by name. Let’s also say that all of the specialists and engineers that designed atmos didn’t really create anything different and weren’t aware they could just make binaural recordings. Here’s something that’s a big deal- when you mix a stereo recording, you can pan the audio tracks left or right. When you work with something like atmos or a surround system, you have control of where that sounds sits in a spacial field, which then gets played through those cans on the left and right side of the head. It’s different.
- harry8 3y ago
  Is that what it is called? Binaural? Like bi="2" and aural="relating to the ear or the sense of hearing." First I've heard the term is today, I guess it makes sense as it will only work with 2 ears, just like stereo. But yeah check out the power of my ignorance - everyone understands exactly what I'm talking about and nobody is gate-keeping with jargon. Cool huh? Not by design but that worked well. So Atmos, never said anything about it other than if you want to make 3d soundscapes as Eno claims, he could have done this anytime in the past 4 decades at least. Wikipedia: "Following the release of Atmos for the cinema market, a variety of consumer technologies have been released under the Atmos brand, using in-ceiling and up-firing speakers." -- Now that sounds like tech using speakers to make sound to me but maybe you know better and can correct wikipedia on the point? Wikipedia really relies on experts to correct it to be good. Headphones work better for 3d sound than speakers and have for decades. IMHO Eno would be well aware of this and could have made 3d soundscape albums or versions anytime before now. And it's a great idea, I love it. And enjoyed doing it as as a kid too.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]