4 ms·

Crazy idea, but how about the gov just gives kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to grants and scholarships, rather than credit.

by rhplus 3y ago

Workaccount2 3y ago
There already is tons of that. The issue is the "full range of schools" part. You can be from a family with a 400 credit score and combined income of $45k, and get loans to go to a $50k/yr university. If the government is going to step in and provide direct funding, it will almost certainly only apply towards community colleges followed by local state schools.
itake 3y ago
How is that different from the current system? People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding. Kids from ideal backgrounds don’t take out loans. If you’re saying schools get a blank check via grants and scholarships, then I’m not seeing how that fixes the issue. This problem feels super similar to the Us health care system. Those with blank checks for pre-negotiated prices (have health insurance), pay low healthcare costs, and those without pay insane prices. Overall everyone is paying insane prices. Can you explain your reasoning more?
- skrtskrt 3y ago
  > People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. I applied to college in 2011 with a household income of like 95k, with an older sibling already in college, and most "financial aid" packages from state universities added up to between $60k-$160k total debt for four years. Going out of state to places like Ohio State, Maryland, etc. was already $50k/year back then. This was inclusive of significant amounts of merit-based scholarships. Most (all?) schools do not allow you to stack merit scholarships with need-based grants. If you earn a merit-based scholarship, they reduce your need-based aid by that exact amount.
  - itake 3y ago
    I am still not understanding how offering blank checks to more people (mid-income) will fix the problem of sky rocketing tuition. Assuming this is a Supply vs Demand problem, blank checks to more people will increase the demand for the services, but does not modify supply or competition for the demand. Increasing demand with static supply will keep tuition increasing.
    - skrtskrt 3y ago
      I didn't say to give blank checks. I'm just saying that the idea that there's nearly enough need-based aid to cover gaps is a load of BS.
  - tekknik 3y ago
    > It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. Because the government has determined that you or your parents make enough to pay for school on your own should you prioritize it financially. The low income people could not. For reference, my families household income was near $25k/yr and I got the first two years covered by a Pell. For $95k/yr you could certainly afford college.
    - skrtskrt 3y ago
      Edit: nevermind. Saw the rest of your comments it's all bad faith BS about how the affordable education = government coercion. But also, somehow you went to school for $5 a year. No. For 95k a year for a four-person household you certainly could not afford to send two children to universities that were $50-70k/year - which was the price of standard state universities at the time. Not without going into significant debt. My parents scrimped and saved for decades and commuted hours every day to teach in higher-paying school districts while living in a low-cost-of-living areas and I was awarded all kinds of academic scholarships and I still had to go into debt and work all the way through college. And they were lucky enough to be working when the school districts would still give yearly raises, which has all dried up now. The financial aid calculations that determine "ability to pay" are just bullshit to make you take out loans.
algoatecorn 3y ago
They do though. I was a Pell Grant recipient. All I did was fill out the FAFSA and the grant was automatically applied. That got me through community college debt free. When I transferred to a 4-year, I once again filled out the FAFSA and was eligible for an interest-free loan which covered the difference between tuition and my Pell Grant.
- grumple 3y ago
  Pell grants are tiny though. Really, the current grant system doesn't work. We should tell the universities they must provide needs-based grants on their own and prohibit using ability to pay during admissions - or they don't receive federal grants. This way they aren't incentivized to continue to bloat costs (as happens now), since now the school is responsible for the costs.
  - nsvd 3y ago
    The tuition for my university (state school) is about $7,000 per year which is coincidentally close to the maximum you can receive through the pell grant.
    - grumple 3y ago
      What university? In PA, Penn State's in state tuition and fees come to almost 20k and out of state is almost twice that: https://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/ https://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/
      - tekknik 3y ago
        Well rarely do you see someone on a Pell grant moving states to go to school, cause now room and board and food come into play. There’s at least one site showing (oddly enough) private schools with lower tuition than Penn State as well as some non-private [1], but you’re still over the max of a Pell grant 1: https://www.bestvalueschools.org/cheapest-colleges-in-pennsylvania/ https://www.bestvalueschools.org/cheapest-colleges-in-pennsy...
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
If it is grant for all regardless of performance, it basically means giving subsidy, which government already does afaik.

Crazy idea, but how about the gov just gives kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to grants and scholarships, rather than credit.

by rhplus 3y ago

Crazy idea, but how about the gov just gives kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to grants and scholarships, rather than credit.

Workaccount2 3y ago

There already is tons of that. The issue is the "full range of schools" part. You can be from a family with a 400 credit score and combined income of $45k, and get loans to go to a $50k/yr university. If the government is going to step in and provide direct funding, it will almost certainly only apply towards community colleges followed by local state schools.

itake 3y ago

How is that different from the current system? People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding. Kids from ideal backgrounds don’t take out loans. If you’re saying schools get a blank check via grants and scholarships, then I’m not seeing how that fixes the issue. This problem feels super similar to the Us health care system. Those with blank checks for pre-negotiated prices (have health insurance), pay low healthcare costs, and those without pay insane prices. Overall everyone is paying insane prices. Can you explain your reasoning more?

skrtskrt 3y ago
> People from low or mid-income families have access to scholarships and funding It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. I applied to college in 2011 with a household income of like 95k, with an older sibling already in college, and most "financial aid" packages from state universities added up to between $60k-$160k total debt for four years. Going out of state to places like Ohio State, Maryland, etc. was already $50k/year back then. This was inclusive of significant amounts of merit-based scholarships. Most (all?) schools do not allow you to stack merit scholarships with need-based grants. If you earn a merit-based scholarship, they reduce your need-based aid by that exact amount.
- itake 3y ago
  I am still not understanding how offering blank checks to more people (mid-income) will fix the problem of sky rocketing tuition. Assuming this is a Supply vs Demand problem, blank checks to more people will increase the demand for the services, but does not modify supply or competition for the demand. Increasing demand with static supply will keep tuition increasing.
  - skrtskrt 3y ago
    I didn't say to give blank checks. I'm just saying that the idea that there's nearly enough need-based aid to cover gaps is a load of BS.
- tekknik 3y ago
  > It might be relatively common for low income to get full rides or near full rides, but anyone in mid-income is getting saddled with tons of debt. Because the government has determined that you or your parents make enough to pay for school on your own should you prioritize it financially. The low income people could not. For reference, my families household income was near $25k/yr and I got the first two years covered by a Pell. For $95k/yr you could certainly afford college.
  - skrtskrt 3y ago
    Edit: nevermind. Saw the rest of your comments it's all bad faith BS about how the affordable education = government coercion. But also, somehow you went to school for $5 a year. No. For 95k a year for a four-person household you certainly could not afford to send two children to universities that were $50-70k/year - which was the price of standard state universities at the time. Not without going into significant debt. My parents scrimped and saved for decades and commuted hours every day to teach in higher-paying school districts while living in a low-cost-of-living areas and I was awarded all kinds of academic scholarships and I still had to go into debt and work all the way through college. And they were lucky enough to be working when the school districts would still give yearly raises, which has all dried up now. The financial aid calculations that determine "ability to pay" are just bullshit to make you take out loans.

algoatecorn 3y ago

They do though. I was a Pell Grant recipient. All I did was fill out the FAFSA and the grant was automatically applied. That got me through community college debt free. When I transferred to a 4-year, I once again filled out the FAFSA and was eligible for an interest-free loan which covered the difference between tuition and my Pell Grant.

grumple 3y ago
Pell grants are tiny though. Really, the current grant system doesn't work. We should tell the universities they must provide needs-based grants on their own and prohibit using ability to pay during admissions - or they don't receive federal grants. This way they aren't incentivized to continue to bloat costs (as happens now), since now the school is responsible for the costs.
- nsvd 3y ago
  The tuition for my university (state school) is about $7,000 per year which is coincidentally close to the maximum you can receive through the pell grant.
  - grumple 3y ago
    What university? In PA, Penn State's in state tuition and fees come to almost 20k and out of state is almost twice that: https://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/ https://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/
    - tekknik 3y ago
      Well rarely do you see someone on a Pell grant moving states to go to school, cause now room and board and food come into play. There’s at least one site showing (oddly enough) private schools with lower tuition than Penn State as well as some non-private [1], but you’re still over the max of a Pell grant 1: https://www.bestvalueschools.org/cheapest-colleges-in-pennsylvania/ https://www.bestvalueschools.org/cheapest-colleges-in-pennsy...

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

If it is grant for all regardless of performance, it basically means giving subsidy, which government already does afaik.