5 ms·

Yeah, the idea is great ("what can you do with the equipment you have") but that also kinda promote a bit of fuckarounditis (https://leangains.com/fuckarounditi

Yeah, the idea is great ("what can you do with the equipment you have") but that also kinda promote a bit of fuckarounditis (https://leangains.com/fuckarounditis/ https://leangains.com/fuckarounditis/) by asking the user "what muscle do you really wanna target", instead of emphasizing a better approach of lifting overall which is strong "functional" compound movements such as the big 6 (bench press / squat / deadlift / pull ups / rows / overhead press)

jeffhuys 3y ago
That link does a lot of talking without really explaining what you DO have to do.
- rkapsoro 3y ago
  https://startingstrength.com/get-started https://startingstrength.com/get-started
  - jeffhuys 3y ago
    Thank you. That website is a LOT less pretentious.
    - tru1ock 3y ago
      Leangains is a great resource. Do not let the tone distract from the content. The content there went mainstream much later(IF) especially so he was ahead of the curve. An IF protocol with a daily energizer routine worked wonders for me. Some great reads: https://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Simple-Sinister-Revised-Updated/dp/0989892433 https://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Simple-Sinister-Revised-Up... https://www.amazon.com/Strength-Rules-Stronger-Almost-Anyone-ebook/dp/B01869NYHM https://www.amazon.com/Strength-Rules-Stronger-Almost-Anyone...
    - zeku 3y ago
      Leangains is a relic of time. Martin Berkharn(the guy who made it) was a VERY prolific poster on the bodybuilding.com forums around 2005-2012 or something like that. The tone of his entire brand is born out of that forum and style of communication. You had to fight for your life on there if you wanted to communicate. I'm not excusing his tone btw just explaining.
      - Wojtkie 3y ago
        the bodybuilding.com forums from that time were something else.
  - nojs 3y ago
    Starting strength is good but Rippetoe is very old school and the community has some cultish vibes. He is totally inflexible about any slight variation like high bar squats and trap bar deadlifts, which are great exercises and often better. His forums are not particularly friendly either. (Example: https://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/61723-herniated-disc-neurosurgeon-squat-deadlift-3.html https://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q...) I think stronglifts is generally a better program for beginners: https://stronglifts.com/ https://stronglifts.com/
    - zls 3y ago
      Been powerlifting for 15 years and I strongly disagree. Stronglifts basically aped Starting Strength with minimal tweaks to justify separate branding, and only caught on over SS because of the slick app. Rippetoe has been coaching strength for many decades and was a competitive lifter himself, with his all-time PRs for squat and deadlift being a little over 600. He’s trained a network of coaches who command crazy prices for training because the cert is prestigious and incredibly difficult to earn. He was a key contributor to powerlifting and weightlifting components of CrossFit, until he (justifiably, imo) became disillusioned with the franchise. The Starting Strength book is an incredible resource for powerlifters, going into extreme detail into how to do the lifts, why, how to avoid getting injured, how to do your programming, and how to tell when you’ve outgrown Starting Strength. The forum you linked is actually an incredible resource where you can get free form feedback and general advice from the actual coaches (and Rippetoe), with no analog in the stronglifts community. (Is there even a stronglifts community?) Mehdi, on the other hand… is some guy who made an app. He’s not even a particularly impressive lifter, and was a decidedly unimpressive one when he launched SL. On the programs themselves: 5x5 is inappropriate for beginners. In no time at all you will hit a progression wall, and your workouts will take forever, where 3x5 could have continued without a hitch, for no upside. And despite the suggestion that more reps means more practice, the fact is that ESPECIALLY for beginners, doing a zillion reps in a state of fatigue is a great way to get hurt. Barbell rows are such a poor substitute for power cleans that Rippetoe no longer recommends them at all, and the newest edition of the book expresses remorse for ever having made the suggestion. But even putting all that aside, the most important part of SS is that it is essentially complete and will carry you for 6-9 months with no modification. Because as the commenter up the chain said, fuckarounditis is the most popular way to fail at getting strong. All the common complaints (“waah my biceps aren’t big enough”) are trivially addressed at the intermediate stage, once you’ve built a base of strength and a habit of training. This is why they are “cultish” about variations: you can do all that once you’ve run out your beginner gains. Until then, you don’t know what you’re doing and shouldn’t mess around.
- squirtlebonflow 3y ago
  No it doesn't. It says squat, deadlift, bench, and curl. Anything else is optional, but don't overcomplicate it.
- davidguetta 3y ago
  Well you didn't read it then. It's actually extremely clear about doing DEADLIFT / SQUATS / BENCH PRESS/ CHIN or PULL UPS / OVERHEAD PRESS. I can understand you may not like the 'troll' / provocative way of writing tho, it's not for everybody
  - wpietri 3y ago
    Yeah, I have no idea if he's right. But he's very clear.
    - davidguetta 3y ago
      From experience it's really nice as a starter because - at a low level strength is as much important as looks - it's a lot more fun to carry heavy weight than do 100 curls with low weights - it's a very quick routine. I got some results with 40min x 3 a week Note that leangains is just not only strength trainign but a quite 'opinionated' diet based on Intermittent fasting on which I have actually strong doubts on the 'necessity', but which is defintely showing results
  - addisonl 3y ago
    A massive article filled with ranting and raving is anything but “extremely clear”
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      A massive article filled with ranting and raving which eventually communicates a point is many things, possibly including "extremely clear".
  - haswell 3y ago
    > I can understand you may not like the 'troll' / provocative way of writing tho, it's not for everybody Not the other commenter, but some feedback: while I’m not a fan of the writing style, and I’m ok with that, my issue is really presentation and information density. It takes a rather dedicated reader to find useful information in between paragraph after paragraph of ranting. And since I’m not skilled at lifting, I’m more interested in hearing what you think is useful than wading through a dozen ways to belittle what people are already doing. I think you could increase your reach by making the problem/solution clearer. I’m just starting to dabble with weights, and I’m actively seeking good resources. I’m not inclined to add your blog to my research plan based on this. Hoping this comes across as constructive and in the spirit it was intended.
lukas099 3y ago
Post proof that your preferred style of workout is better overall.
- davidguetta 3y ago
  I don't care about proving it to you at all. There's thousands of bodybuilding ressources on the net if you're really interested, and the website I linked show a lof of before / after pictures. And in reality it's not better than any other one that focuses on the big 6. What I like wit LG is that the idea is to be "very focused on what really matters" which is compound motions and reaching failure points. Personally I got results with 3x40 min workout per week, which is very small. And it's not just the workout, you have to follow a precise (natural) diet.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    You say that "what really matters" is compound motions and reaching failure points, but there isn't any good evidence for that. If your goal is to get good at compound motion and reaching failure points, sure.
dehrmann 3y ago
> fuckarounditis Just punched in my muscles for today, and I'd agree. It's leg and core day. For legs, it gave me barbell suitcase deadlifts and barbell Bulgarian split squats. They're not bad, but they overcomplicate things, and this is especially bad for beginners. What I'm actually going to do are squats and RDLs.
tunesmith 3y ago
But if you're asking "what can you do with the equipment you have" you might not be able to do the big six. What if you only have bodyweight and dumbbells?
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  Then it could be smart about recommending the next best thing. For example -> Don't have a barbell but have adjustable DB's? Replace Bench for DB bench Replace Squat for goblet squat or split squat. Replace OHP for DB OHP Replace Deadlift for DB RDL Replace Row for DB Row Almost anybody can find something to hang off of for pull-ups so I'd say suck it up and find something. Personally I would tell any new lifter that sure DB's and calisthenics work. But if you are one for optimizing/want the most gains in the least time, you NEED to find a barbell/squat rack at the very least. A new lifter can literally put 200+ pounds on their squat/deadlift in 6 months or less. You will outgrow DB's pretty fast if you're really serious. Note: I am an avid lifter and have been for 10+ years. You will rarely see somebody who is both natural and relatively big who does not focus on the big lifts, or at LEAST has a strength base built from the big lifts.
- davidguetta 3y ago
  It's true ! But it's just a matter of 'fitness approach'. I never said the app was bad or even lying on its app, just that the approach is a bit ... suboptimal for beginners. Like if someone download the app b.c. wants to do arms / pecs then this app will never tell him that squats are great in general. It's just a matter of approach. Another approach could be "draw me a good workout with this gear" and you have the choice at most between "push" "pull" "legs" (a classic weekly split) or "general fitness" and it starts with a bunch of squats and then use the equipments. Just food for thoughts

jeffhuys 3y ago

That link does a lot of talking without really explaining what you DO have to do.

rkapsoro 3y ago
https://startingstrength.com/get-started https://startingstrength.com/get-started
- jeffhuys 3y ago
  Thank you. That website is a LOT less pretentious.
  - tru1ock 3y ago
    Leangains is a great resource. Do not let the tone distract from the content. The content there went mainstream much later(IF) especially so he was ahead of the curve. An IF protocol with a daily energizer routine worked wonders for me. Some great reads: https://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Simple-Sinister-Revised-Updated/dp/0989892433 https://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Simple-Sinister-Revised-Up... https://www.amazon.com/Strength-Rules-Stronger-Almost-Anyone-ebook/dp/B01869NYHM https://www.amazon.com/Strength-Rules-Stronger-Almost-Anyone...
  - zeku 3y ago
    Leangains is a relic of time. Martin Berkharn(the guy who made it) was a VERY prolific poster on the bodybuilding.com forums around 2005-2012 or something like that. The tone of his entire brand is born out of that forum and style of communication. You had to fight for your life on there if you wanted to communicate. I'm not excusing his tone btw just explaining.
    - Wojtkie 3y ago
      the bodybuilding.com forums from that time were something else.
- nojs 3y ago
  Starting strength is good but Rippetoe is very old school and the community has some cultish vibes. He is totally inflexible about any slight variation like high bar squats and trap bar deadlifts, which are great exercises and often better. His forums are not particularly friendly either. (Example: https://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/61723-herniated-disc-neurosurgeon-squat-deadlift-3.html https://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q...) I think stronglifts is generally a better program for beginners: https://stronglifts.com/ https://stronglifts.com/
  - zls 3y ago
    Been powerlifting for 15 years and I strongly disagree. Stronglifts basically aped Starting Strength with minimal tweaks to justify separate branding, and only caught on over SS because of the slick app. Rippetoe has been coaching strength for many decades and was a competitive lifter himself, with his all-time PRs for squat and deadlift being a little over 600. He’s trained a network of coaches who command crazy prices for training because the cert is prestigious and incredibly difficult to earn. He was a key contributor to powerlifting and weightlifting components of CrossFit, until he (justifiably, imo) became disillusioned with the franchise. The Starting Strength book is an incredible resource for powerlifters, going into extreme detail into how to do the lifts, why, how to avoid getting injured, how to do your programming, and how to tell when you’ve outgrown Starting Strength. The forum you linked is actually an incredible resource where you can get free form feedback and general advice from the actual coaches (and Rippetoe), with no analog in the stronglifts community. (Is there even a stronglifts community?) Mehdi, on the other hand… is some guy who made an app. He’s not even a particularly impressive lifter, and was a decidedly unimpressive one when he launched SL. On the programs themselves: 5x5 is inappropriate for beginners. In no time at all you will hit a progression wall, and your workouts will take forever, where 3x5 could have continued without a hitch, for no upside. And despite the suggestion that more reps means more practice, the fact is that ESPECIALLY for beginners, doing a zillion reps in a state of fatigue is a great way to get hurt. Barbell rows are such a poor substitute for power cleans that Rippetoe no longer recommends them at all, and the newest edition of the book expresses remorse for ever having made the suggestion. But even putting all that aside, the most important part of SS is that it is essentially complete and will carry you for 6-9 months with no modification. Because as the commenter up the chain said, fuckarounditis is the most popular way to fail at getting strong. All the common complaints (“waah my biceps aren’t big enough”) are trivially addressed at the intermediate stage, once you’ve built a base of strength and a habit of training. This is why they are “cultish” about variations: you can do all that once you’ve run out your beginner gains. Until then, you don’t know what you’re doing and shouldn’t mess around.
squirtlebonflow 3y ago
No it doesn't. It says squat, deadlift, bench, and curl. Anything else is optional, but don't overcomplicate it.
davidguetta 3y ago
Well you didn't read it then. It's actually extremely clear about doing DEADLIFT / SQUATS / BENCH PRESS/ CHIN or PULL UPS / OVERHEAD PRESS. I can understand you may not like the 'troll' / provocative way of writing tho, it's not for everybody
- wpietri 3y ago
  Yeah, I have no idea if he's right. But he's very clear.
  - davidguetta 3y ago
    From experience it's really nice as a starter because - at a low level strength is as much important as looks - it's a lot more fun to carry heavy weight than do 100 curls with low weights - it's a very quick routine. I got some results with 40min x 3 a week Note that leangains is just not only strength trainign but a quite 'opinionated' diet based on Intermittent fasting on which I have actually strong doubts on the 'necessity', but which is defintely showing results
- addisonl 3y ago
  A massive article filled with ranting and raving is anything but “extremely clear”
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    A massive article filled with ranting and raving which eventually communicates a point is many things, possibly including "extremely clear".
- haswell 3y ago
  > I can understand you may not like the 'troll' / provocative way of writing tho, it's not for everybody Not the other commenter, but some feedback: while I’m not a fan of the writing style, and I’m ok with that, my issue is really presentation and information density. It takes a rather dedicated reader to find useful information in between paragraph after paragraph of ranting. And since I’m not skilled at lifting, I’m more interested in hearing what you think is useful than wading through a dozen ways to belittle what people are already doing. I think you could increase your reach by making the problem/solution clearer. I’m just starting to dabble with weights, and I’m actively seeking good resources. I’m not inclined to add your blog to my research plan based on this. Hoping this comes across as constructive and in the spirit it was intended.

lukas099 3y ago

Post proof that your preferred style of workout is better overall.

davidguetta 3y ago
I don't care about proving it to you at all. There's thousands of bodybuilding ressources on the net if you're really interested, and the website I linked show a lof of before / after pictures. And in reality it's not better than any other one that focuses on the big 6. What I like wit LG is that the idea is to be "very focused on what really matters" which is compound motions and reaching failure points. Personally I got results with 3x40 min workout per week, which is very small. And it's not just the workout, you have to follow a precise (natural) diet.
- lukas099 3y ago
  You say that "what really matters" is compound motions and reaching failure points, but there isn't any good evidence for that. If your goal is to get good at compound motion and reaching failure points, sure.

dehrmann 3y ago

> fuckarounditis Just punched in my muscles for today, and I'd agree. It's leg and core day. For legs, it gave me barbell suitcase deadlifts and barbell Bulgarian split squats. They're not bad, but they overcomplicate things, and this is especially bad for beginners. What I'm actually going to do are squats and RDLs.

tunesmith 3y ago

But if you're asking "what can you do with the equipment you have" you might not be able to do the big six. What if you only have bodyweight and dumbbells?

Jcampuzano2 3y ago
Then it could be smart about recommending the next best thing. For example -> Don't have a barbell but have adjustable DB's? Replace Bench for DB bench Replace Squat for goblet squat or split squat. Replace OHP for DB OHP Replace Deadlift for DB RDL Replace Row for DB Row Almost anybody can find something to hang off of for pull-ups so I'd say suck it up and find something. Personally I would tell any new lifter that sure DB's and calisthenics work. But if you are one for optimizing/want the most gains in the least time, you NEED to find a barbell/squat rack at the very least. A new lifter can literally put 200+ pounds on their squat/deadlift in 6 months or less. You will outgrow DB's pretty fast if you're really serious. Note: I am an avid lifter and have been for 10+ years. You will rarely see somebody who is both natural and relatively big who does not focus on the big lifts, or at LEAST has a strength base built from the big lifts.
davidguetta 3y ago
It's true ! But it's just a matter of 'fitness approach'. I never said the app was bad or even lying on its app, just that the approach is a bit ... suboptimal for beginners. Like if someone download the app b.c. wants to do arms / pecs then this app will never tell him that squats are great in general. It's just a matter of approach. Another approach could be "draw me a good workout with this gear" and you have the choice at most between "push" "pull" "legs" (a classic weekly split) or "general fitness" and it starts with a bunch of squats and then use the equipments. Just food for thoughts