6 ms·

what a dystopian article and idea. Homeowners should be prevented from sending Ring video footage to police because there is a risk that these videos might be u

by mjfl 3y ago

what a dystopian article and idea. Homeowners should be prevented from sending Ring video footage to police because there is a risk that these videos might be used to report innocent racial minorities to the police. The presence of this risk apparently outweighs the obvious benefit that one can send videos of real criminals to police. What's next, not being able to call 911? Criminals are victimizers, not victims. It is UNETHICAL to coerce people into not reporting a crime because of perceived identity-politics based risks. It causes increased harm in the world because criminals who escape are free to victimize again, and do. The authors of this article, and editors at Wired, are participating in unethical, immoral behavior and they should be ashamed of themselves!

beecafe 3y ago
By that logic, anything that could potentially ever help catch a criminal is worth any potential cost to anyone who isn't you.
- starttoaster 3y ago
  I think I see where you’re coming from here. Presuming that the police are incapable of performing their job without killing innocent people. We see a lot of that on the tv these days, so I understand your perspective. But if we presume that the police are incapable of performing their jobs, then you’re saying it’s never really worth involving them at all. And that’s an even bigger problem.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    >you’re saying it’s never really worth involving them at all. This is the reality for many millions of Americans. I have people in my own family for whom police interaction of virtually any kind will make their situation worse time. There are neighborhoods and communities where the idea of calling the police and actually expecting to receive help will get you laughed out of the room, as everyone in the room knows from actual experience it isn't true. A third of their local taxes go to a thing that will at best never help them. It isn't by accident that nations have travel advisories warning their citizens about American police.
    - scarby2 3y ago
      So how do we fix the actual problem? A functional police service is a useful thing to have and a moral imperative. American police are sub optimal so we have to stop working with them and get rid of them is a non-sequiter
      - flangola7 3y ago
        The idea that policing (or at least anything we would recognize as policing today) is necessary in society is from a universal opinion and certainly has not been the reality for most of human civilization. "Abolish the Police" is not rhetorical. https://archive.ph/6E7mY https://archive.ph/6E7mY
        starttoaster 3y ago
        Maybe not having police worked when the population density was like half a person per square kilometer, but with people packed up into tight spaces as they do now, I think you’re living a dream.
    - janalsncm 3y ago
      In that case, I can’t think of a better advertisement for Ring. A doorbell camera with police on speed dial. Criminals know not to mess around because if Ring sees them doing anything funny an internationally recognized death squad will come knocking.
      - flangola7 3y ago
        You missed my entire point. The ring owner in this case is not exempt from being death squad'ed.
Dylan16807 3y ago
The problem isn't the videos of actual crimes. You have deeply misunderstood the article. And in the important and much rarer situation you do have such a video, you can get it to police without the help of a one-click share button.
- starttoaster 3y ago
  You can. Can the average Ring system user? My wife, bless her, struggles with tech and wouldn’t know what to do. Maybe there’s a video save button, then what? You email it to a police station email address? Where would she find a police station’s email address? Maybe she calls them and they tell her. What if the video file is too large for her email client? That’s a road block right there for her, she’d come to me for help with. What if I’m not available? What if there’s simply not much time for me to trim the video file and send it in pieces? This is mostly whataboutism, but then again, the other side of this argument kind of is too. Sure maybe I send the cops a video, and maybe they recognize the person and go to their home. What are then the odds that the person is discriminated against or presumed guilty by the officer? Anyway, the one click button is a feature that I don’t think deserves the flack. If the police are doing their jobs, they won’t just go in guns blazing on a guy just because he was snooping around my parked car in the driveway and I shot the video over.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    You can directly show the officer the screen playing the video. That requires zero technological expertise.
    - starttoaster 3y ago
      That presumes that an officer is present, whereas this is a remote sharing feature, correct? So you’re not really giving a comparable option.
- mjfl 3y ago
  I think I understand that you want to make it harder for people to report a video to the police, because you believe these people will call in false reports on racial minorities. There will be some people who will not be able to figure out how to get a video of a crime to police because of that change. That is unethical.

by mjfl 3y ago

beecafe 3y ago

By that logic, anything that could potentially ever help catch a criminal is worth any potential cost to anyone who isn't you.

starttoaster 3y ago
I think I see where you’re coming from here. Presuming that the police are incapable of performing their job without killing innocent people. We see a lot of that on the tv these days, so I understand your perspective. But if we presume that the police are incapable of performing their jobs, then you’re saying it’s never really worth involving them at all. And that’s an even bigger problem.
- flangola7 3y ago
  >you’re saying it’s never really worth involving them at all. This is the reality for many millions of Americans. I have people in my own family for whom police interaction of virtually any kind will make their situation worse time. There are neighborhoods and communities where the idea of calling the police and actually expecting to receive help will get you laughed out of the room, as everyone in the room knows from actual experience it isn't true. A third of their local taxes go to a thing that will at best never help them. It isn't by accident that nations have travel advisories warning their citizens about American police.
  - scarby2 3y ago
    So how do we fix the actual problem? A functional police service is a useful thing to have and a moral imperative. American police are sub optimal so we have to stop working with them and get rid of them is a non-sequiter
    - flangola7 3y ago
      The idea that policing (or at least anything we would recognize as policing today) is necessary in society is from a universal opinion and certainly has not been the reality for most of human civilization. "Abolish the Police" is not rhetorical. https://archive.ph/6E7mY https://archive.ph/6E7mY
      - starttoaster 3y ago
        Maybe not having police worked when the population density was like half a person per square kilometer, but with people packed up into tight spaces as they do now, I think you’re living a dream.
  - janalsncm 3y ago
    In that case, I can’t think of a better advertisement for Ring. A doorbell camera with police on speed dial. Criminals know not to mess around because if Ring sees them doing anything funny an internationally recognized death squad will come knocking.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      You missed my entire point. The ring owner in this case is not exempt from being death squad'ed.

Dylan16807 3y ago

The problem isn't the videos of actual crimes. You have deeply misunderstood the article. And in the important and much rarer situation you do have such a video, you can get it to police without the help of a one-click share button.

starttoaster 3y ago
You can. Can the average Ring system user? My wife, bless her, struggles with tech and wouldn’t know what to do. Maybe there’s a video save button, then what? You email it to a police station email address? Where would she find a police station’s email address? Maybe she calls them and they tell her. What if the video file is too large for her email client? That’s a road block right there for her, she’d come to me for help with. What if I’m not available? What if there’s simply not much time for me to trim the video file and send it in pieces? This is mostly whataboutism, but then again, the other side of this argument kind of is too. Sure maybe I send the cops a video, and maybe they recognize the person and go to their home. What are then the odds that the person is discriminated against or presumed guilty by the officer? Anyway, the one click button is a feature that I don’t think deserves the flack. If the police are doing their jobs, they won’t just go in guns blazing on a guy just because he was snooping around my parked car in the driveway and I shot the video over.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  You can directly show the officer the screen playing the video. That requires zero technological expertise.
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    That presumes that an officer is present, whereas this is a remote sharing feature, correct? So you’re not really giving a comparable option.
mjfl 3y ago
I think I understand that you want to make it harder for people to report a video to the police, because you believe these people will call in false reports on racial minorities. There will be some people who will not be able to figure out how to get a video of a crime to police because of that change. That is unethical.