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Having messed with VR/AR tech since the DK2, the Apple Store presence could be the killer app that VR/AR needs. The manual learning process of ordering special

Having messed with VR/AR tech since the DK2, the Apple Store presence could be the killer app that VR/AR needs. The manual learning process of ordering special fit lenses, adjusting the headsets, etc would be a great fit with Apple’s store model.

kcplate 3y ago
So the killer app for a $3.5k product is an app that helps you buy other expensive products from the same company? Maybe I misunderstood, but if not count me skeptical.
- macintux 3y ago
  Not the app, the retail presence. The Apple Stores have proved enormously valuable when Apple enters a new hardware product category.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    I can understand this being a differentiator to other AR/VR products, but that is not exactly what the comment I replied to said, they said the “killer app” was the ability to buy it at an Apple Store. Short of a few folks with too much extra cash and curiosity, just being able to try it before you buy isn’t what I would refer to as a killer app. The “killer app” is what gets the main market populace to the store to even consider it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- danpalmer 3y ago
  I’m squarely in the target market for the Meta Quest, but the fact I have no way of trying one before I buy, even just for a few minutes, is my main blocker for getting one. This is particularly important for a) new product categories where customers aren’t yet sure they want/need it, b) products that “fit”, or don’t, and c) expensive entertainment products. These headsets are all three, so it’s really important. Apple’s retail presence could solve this.
  - dharmab 3y ago
    Meta has a free 30 day return policy
    - danpalmer 3y ago
      That's typical for most products like that but it doesn't solve the problem. The issue is only partly "will I like it" or "will it fit me", for which a free return policy can help (but not fully solve), but a lot of the issue is "why would I want this". If you walk past one in a shop and can give it a go you're much more likely to overcome that than spending £300 on one and having to go through the return process. Aside, I hear a lot more about free returns from people in the US. In the UK they are seemingly near-universal, but there is significantly less willingness to return outside of specific categories such as clothing. I have a little experience working in a retailer (as a software engineer), and US return rates were far higher than UK/EU return rates, and this was apparently considered typical.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      I've bought underwear with a longer return period.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  The entire purpose of the Apple Stores were to be a showcase where Apple controlled the narrative. It has been one of Apple’s competitive advantages since 2001. How many people are going to spend $3500 on a device that by definition you have to try on in person to see if you want it?
- starcraft2wol 3y ago
  Are you not familiar with the iOS ecosystem?
smiley1437 3y ago
Sure sounds like it's adding a lot of friction to the purchase phase
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Philip Morris is, or at least used to, selling the electronic cigarettes the same way. This sort of exclusivity makes some people feel special. It's a viable tactic.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  which removes even more from the usage phase. you’ve been taught how to use the device fitted for you. they’re front-loading friction in an effort to minimize it.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  I think the friction can come across to some customers as good service, and help launch a category. The Apple Watch was initially sold at fitting appointments in store, and I think that was important in establishing it as a normal thing to wear and even a fashionable thing to wear in some cases, and helped cement the product in the mainstream. Tailored suits is another case where there’s a premium price, premium service, but a lot of friction. It’s not always bad. They’re also probably supply constrained enough that the friction doesn’t matter for the first version or two.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    > I think that was important in establishing it as a normal thing to wear Apple did not need to normalize the wearing of watches. Watches have been luxury fashion items for hundreds of years.
    - danpalmer 3y ago
      Apple absolutely needed to normalise the idea that a £300 black puck was Luxury Fashion. See what happened to Google Glass for when a company fails to make a wearable product fashionable, and we've been wearing expensive glasses for hundreds of years. Watch nerds still shun it today, although Apple has managed to break through as much as they needed to make it a success.
goosedragons 3y ago
Conversely the fact that you need special fit lenses and a store appointment means its going to be hard to test out and hard to buy. You're probably not going to be able to wander past the Apple store in the mall and take a quick peek in and play with the Vision Pro like you can with their other products like the iPad. Nor will testing your friend's necessarily be a good experience. Plus even in the U.S Apple Store's aren't that common requiring a multi-hour drive to get to in some places.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  the price tag already made this a “not for everyone.” for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible. this is a slow game.
  - r_hoods_ghost 3y ago
    How on earth is forcing someone to go to a store, probably only in a few select locations far away from where you live, low friction?
    - evandale 3y ago
      You left out important context: > for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible. Going to a store is not low friction for an enthusiast. We've already established that the price tag shuts out all but the enthusiast. Apple enthusiasts will do anything to buy Apple products.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        An Apple enthusiast not willing to go to the Apple Store? When I went to NYC, the Apple Store there was like nerd Mecca with people taking pictures in front of it.
        fomine3 3y ago
        That's Apple enthusiast. I think xR enthusiasts (who mildly prefer using Apple products) don't like to visit jammed Apple Store.
dagmx 3y ago
The big win I think will be the App Store rather than just the Apple Store. the App Store will provide reducing the need to take the headset off to use general apps. When you use an oculus, if you need to do something like reply to a text, check an email or reply to someone on social media, you have to take off your headset or kill your current task and switch to virtual desktop. Having all your iOS apps on it, and being able to multitask means people won’t be taking off their headset as often and they’ll not have to consider dedicated VR time. To me, that’s the biggest software differentiator
- mathgeek 3y ago
  > and they’ll not have to consider dedicated VR time The reported battery life on the Vision Pro is still going to require that you have dedicated "goggles on" time for the foreseeable future.
  - dagmx 3y ago
    the battery has a usb-c port in photos that implies you can charge it while using it.
    - Macha 3y ago
      So do my headphones, but I can't charge them in use either.
      - hhh 3y ago
        If you watch the keynote there’s direct discussion of a power cable for the headset that is meant for constant power.
      - mjamesaustin 3y ago
        The first thing Apple says about battery life is "all day while plugged in". The device is intended to be used as long as desired while plugged in, just like a laptop.
    - 3y ago
kjkjadksj 3y ago
It would probably consume the entire applestore floorspace with nonbuying looky loos and their product damaging children
- bagels 3y ago
  Damaging children in what way?
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    I think they mean children running around damaging the store and its products. That being said, it’s not like children aren’t already in Apple stores and they don’t seem to be damaging a substantial amount of phones and whatnot.
  - lelandfe 3y ago
    Product-damaging children, but I like your read better. Though it raises which product of the looky loos is damaging kids.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      I imagine the more likely scenario is kids damaging other things with the headset on because they don’t see where they are. There were a lot of videos in the 2000s of Wiimotes getting swung into TVs.
- sevensevennine 3y ago
  There used to be a Microsoft store in the big mall near me. It turned into a babysitting service for parents who dropped their kids off to play with the Xbox.
justapassenger 3y ago
Or, it means that tech is still not ready for a mainstream adoption. You should take it out of the box and it should just work. I cannot imagine people being excited that they need to go physical store and deal with a staff there to get their fancy new toy.
- EwanToo 3y ago
  Do you not remember the queues outside Apple stores for early iPhones? https://youtu.be/bWgd5crvB0U https://youtu.be/bWgd5crvB0U
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    Do you not remember it’s 2023 and online retail is at very different place?
- peddling-brink 3y ago
  Have you been to an Apple Store recently? It’s plenty easy to get their products online, but the stores are consistently packed regardless.
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    I don’t think people who pack Apple stores are target audience. From my experience they’re either not a target audience (older, non tech savvy) or lack funds (teenagers).
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      Can we please get rid of the stereotype that older people aren't "tech savvy"? Older people today have been using computers since they were in their teens or twenties. Conversely, I know a 20-something woman who can't understand why her iMessages quit working when she switched to an Android phone, despite explaining it to her multiple times. As you note, they also have more money.
user_named 3y ago
Buying the product can't be the product's killer app.
pjmlp 3y ago
I give it a couple of years.

kcplate 3y ago

So the killer app for a $3.5k product is an app that helps you buy other expensive products from the same company? Maybe I misunderstood, but if not count me skeptical.

macintux 3y ago
Not the app, the retail presence. The Apple Stores have proved enormously valuable when Apple enters a new hardware product category.
- kcplate 3y ago
  I can understand this being a differentiator to other AR/VR products, but that is not exactly what the comment I replied to said, they said the “killer app” was the ability to buy it at an Apple Store. Short of a few folks with too much extra cash and curiosity, just being able to try it before you buy isn’t what I would refer to as a killer app. The “killer app” is what gets the main market populace to the store to even consider it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
danpalmer 3y ago
I’m squarely in the target market for the Meta Quest, but the fact I have no way of trying one before I buy, even just for a few minutes, is my main blocker for getting one. This is particularly important for a) new product categories where customers aren’t yet sure they want/need it, b) products that “fit”, or don’t, and c) expensive entertainment products. These headsets are all three, so it’s really important. Apple’s retail presence could solve this.
- dharmab 3y ago
  Meta has a free 30 day return policy
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    That's typical for most products like that but it doesn't solve the problem. The issue is only partly "will I like it" or "will it fit me", for which a free return policy can help (but not fully solve), but a lot of the issue is "why would I want this". If you walk past one in a shop and can give it a go you're much more likely to overcome that than spending £300 on one and having to go through the return process. Aside, I hear a lot more about free returns from people in the US. In the UK they are seemingly near-universal, but there is significantly less willingness to return outside of specific categories such as clothing. I have a little experience working in a retailer (as a software engineer), and US return rates were far higher than UK/EU return rates, and this was apparently considered typical.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    I've bought underwear with a longer return period.
scarface_74 3y ago
The entire purpose of the Apple Stores were to be a showcase where Apple controlled the narrative. It has been one of Apple’s competitive advantages since 2001. How many people are going to spend $3500 on a device that by definition you have to try on in person to see if you want it?
starcraft2wol 3y ago
Are you not familiar with the iOS ecosystem?

smiley1437 3y ago

Sure sounds like it's adding a lot of friction to the purchase phase

beebeepka 3y ago
Philip Morris is, or at least used to, selling the electronic cigarettes the same way. This sort of exclusivity makes some people feel special. It's a viable tactic.
catchnear4321 3y ago
which removes even more from the usage phase. you’ve been taught how to use the device fitted for you. they’re front-loading friction in an effort to minimize it.
danpalmer 3y ago
I think the friction can come across to some customers as good service, and help launch a category. The Apple Watch was initially sold at fitting appointments in store, and I think that was important in establishing it as a normal thing to wear and even a fashionable thing to wear in some cases, and helped cement the product in the mainstream. Tailored suits is another case where there’s a premium price, premium service, but a lot of friction. It’s not always bad. They’re also probably supply constrained enough that the friction doesn’t matter for the first version or two.
- kibwen 3y ago
  > I think that was important in establishing it as a normal thing to wear Apple did not need to normalize the wearing of watches. Watches have been luxury fashion items for hundreds of years.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    Apple absolutely needed to normalise the idea that a £300 black puck was Luxury Fashion. See what happened to Google Glass for when a company fails to make a wearable product fashionable, and we've been wearing expensive glasses for hundreds of years. Watch nerds still shun it today, although Apple has managed to break through as much as they needed to make it a success.

goosedragons 3y ago

Conversely the fact that you need special fit lenses and a store appointment means its going to be hard to test out and hard to buy. You're probably not going to be able to wander past the Apple store in the mall and take a quick peek in and play with the Vision Pro like you can with their other products like the iPad. Nor will testing your friend's necessarily be a good experience. Plus even in the U.S Apple Store's aren't that common requiring a multi-hour drive to get to in some places.

catchnear4321 3y ago
the price tag already made this a “not for everyone.” for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible. this is a slow game.
- r_hoods_ghost 3y ago
  How on earth is forcing someone to go to a store, probably only in a few select locations far away from where you live, low friction?
  - evandale 3y ago
    You left out important context: > for the enthusiastic, apple is going to make it as low-friction as possible. Going to a store is not low friction for an enthusiast. We've already established that the price tag shuts out all but the enthusiast. Apple enthusiasts will do anything to buy Apple products.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      An Apple enthusiast not willing to go to the Apple Store? When I went to NYC, the Apple Store there was like nerd Mecca with people taking pictures in front of it.
      - fomine3 3y ago
        That's Apple enthusiast. I think xR enthusiasts (who mildly prefer using Apple products) don't like to visit jammed Apple Store.

dagmx 3y ago

The big win I think will be the App Store rather than just the Apple Store. the App Store will provide reducing the need to take the headset off to use general apps. When you use an oculus, if you need to do something like reply to a text, check an email or reply to someone on social media, you have to take off your headset or kill your current task and switch to virtual desktop. Having all your iOS apps on it, and being able to multitask means people won’t be taking off their headset as often and they’ll not have to consider dedicated VR time. To me, that’s the biggest software differentiator

mathgeek 3y ago
> and they’ll not have to consider dedicated VR time The reported battery life on the Vision Pro is still going to require that you have dedicated "goggles on" time for the foreseeable future.
- dagmx 3y ago
  the battery has a usb-c port in photos that implies you can charge it while using it.
  - Macha 3y ago
    So do my headphones, but I can't charge them in use either.
    - hhh 3y ago
      If you watch the keynote there’s direct discussion of a power cable for the headset that is meant for constant power.
    - mjamesaustin 3y ago
      The first thing Apple says about battery life is "all day while plugged in". The device is intended to be used as long as desired while plugged in, just like a laptop.
  - 3y ago

kjkjadksj 3y ago

It would probably consume the entire applestore floorspace with nonbuying looky loos and their product damaging children

bagels 3y ago
Damaging children in what way?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  I think they mean children running around damaging the store and its products. That being said, it’s not like children aren’t already in Apple stores and they don’t seem to be damaging a substantial amount of phones and whatnot.
- lelandfe 3y ago
  Product-damaging children, but I like your read better. Though it raises which product of the looky loos is damaging kids.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    I imagine the more likely scenario is kids damaging other things with the headset on because they don’t see where they are. There were a lot of videos in the 2000s of Wiimotes getting swung into TVs.
sevensevennine 3y ago
There used to be a Microsoft store in the big mall near me. It turned into a babysitting service for parents who dropped their kids off to play with the Xbox.

justapassenger 3y ago

Or, it means that tech is still not ready for a mainstream adoption. You should take it out of the box and it should just work. I cannot imagine people being excited that they need to go physical store and deal with a staff there to get their fancy new toy.

EwanToo 3y ago
Do you not remember the queues outside Apple stores for early iPhones? https://youtu.be/bWgd5crvB0U https://youtu.be/bWgd5crvB0U
- justapassenger 3y ago
  Do you not remember it’s 2023 and online retail is at very different place?
peddling-brink 3y ago
Have you been to an Apple Store recently? It’s plenty easy to get their products online, but the stores are consistently packed regardless.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  I don’t think people who pack Apple stores are target audience. From my experience they’re either not a target audience (older, non tech savvy) or lack funds (teenagers).
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    Can we please get rid of the stereotype that older people aren't "tech savvy"? Older people today have been using computers since they were in their teens or twenties. Conversely, I know a 20-something woman who can't understand why her iMessages quit working when she switched to an Android phone, despite explaining it to her multiple times. As you note, they also have more money.

user_named 3y ago

Buying the product can't be the product's killer app.

pjmlp 3y ago

I give it a couple of years.