4 ms·

I am an ignorant old grouch. Is there anything more anonymous and less dependent on 3rd parties than "hi, welcome, please create a new user ID and password"?

I am an ignorant old grouch. Is there anything more anonymous and less dependent on 3rd parties than "hi, welcome, please create a new user ID and password"? Everything else, as far as I can see, ends up benefiting the provider in some sneaky shady way,as opposed to user.

hanniabu 3y ago
With one Ethereum account you can have endless passwords that you don't need to remember
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  Which is a hilariously awful proposition, especially given how truly security unconscious most wallet applications actually are, along with the... questionable... security policies baked-in to the blockchain.
  - hanniabu 3y ago
    If you think it's so vulnerable then go hack Ethereum, there's a $225B bounty waiting for you
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      [flagged]
- rcxdude 3y ago
  oh, like a password manager? or any number of other private key based authentication schemes that aren't attached to a distributed system which spends a lot of time, effort, and complexity, not to mention cost on ensuring double-spends don't appen?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
noman-land 3y ago
The fact that you're creating a user ID on a service is already third party. That service owns your username and you also have to trust them to store your password securely. Ethereum accounts are not tied to any service. They are just a public/private keypair so they can be used as portable usernames.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  I am party #1. I go to a website to make an account. They are party #2. I do not see a third party. Meanwhile, Mr. John "bro trust me bro your wallets secure bro nobody's going to just drop a viral token into your wallet to fuck with you bro" Ethereum is a 3rd party to the transaction between me and a website. I trust Ashley Madison with my password more than I trust the Web3 ecosystem and cryptobros to not fuck me over using the rules of their own rigged game.
  - tough 3y ago
    That's dark bro https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36637736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36637736
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      Dark story, bro
  - noman-land 3y ago
    This is not correct based on the laws of the United States. Other people's web servers are third parties, and when you use them, your data is not protected under the Fourth Amendment. "The third-party doctrine is a United States legal doctrine that holds that people who voluntarily give information to third parties—such as banks, phone companies, internet service providers (ISPs), and e-mail servers—have "no reasonable expectation of privacy" in that information. A lack of privacy protection allows the United States government to obtain information from third parties without a legal warrant and without otherwise complying with the Fourth Amendment prohibition against search and seizure without probable cause and a judicial search warrant." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
EGreg 3y ago
Old grouch is far better than the disingenuous people running around saying “stop using this technology!! It has no value, I have never seen it and it cant have any value!!” Basically the difference is that the username and password can be used to authenticate with that specific site and that’s it, while a “wallet” browser extension or app can let the user sign transactions and manage value outside your site, so they don’t have to trust your site (they approve all major transactions) and your site can’t impersonate them. You may think you won’t but one of your devs could go in for example and salami-slice the balances of your members, or change all the votes in a stackoverflow election etc.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  Oh I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not telling people to stop using the technology. Using Ethereum is certainly one of the choices of all time. I don't agree with it, but I am happy that people choose to engage with it. I love watching clowns.
loveparade 3y ago
In this case, there is nothing more anonymous about the Ethereum approach than a simple username/password. But there are some benefits in terms of data privacy. Most websites, especially social media, don't let you get away with just an anonymous username/password these days if you want to use their full functionality. They may want all kinds of other information from you, e.g. email address (3rd party), your phone number, ID verifcation, linked Google account with certain permissions to access private data, and so on. This data will be sent to their servers (as well as ad providers / Google) and linked with your identity. You have little control over this and can't remove it from their servers either. With the Ethereum approach, you can control this data about yourself. For example, with zero-knowledge proofs you could prove to a service that "I am over 18 and an US resident with a valid phone number" without sending any actual information about yourself to that party. Twitter shouldn't need your phone number. It just needs to know that you have one. Logging in with your Google account everywhere is convenient because it contains all kinds of facts about you. But you have no control over what's done with that data, either by Google or the service you're logging into. With "Log in wit Ethereum" you could get the same conveniences, but you still own your data and have full control over what's being done with it or who can access which parts of it.
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  The wallet ID and public, immutable transaction logs still allows for entity resolution. There is, of course, a limit to the entity resolution that can be thus performed... much like there is with Web2 advertisers. In fact, it is the same limit. That limit is the ability of the user to prevent the system from resolving their identity based on their activities within the system. I'd dare say that it's probably even easier to dodge ER today than it would be in some hypothetical mega-dystopia where literally any blockchain is the default currency paradigm.
chayesfss 3y ago
[dead]

hanniabu 3y ago

With one Ethereum account you can have endless passwords that you don't need to remember

jurynulifcation 3y ago
Which is a hilariously awful proposition, especially given how truly security unconscious most wallet applications actually are, along with the... questionable... security policies baked-in to the blockchain.
- hanniabu 3y ago
  If you think it's so vulnerable then go hack Ethereum, there's a $225B bounty waiting for you
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    [flagged]
rcxdude 3y ago
oh, like a password manager? or any number of other private key based authentication schemes that aren't attached to a distributed system which spends a lot of time, effort, and complexity, not to mention cost on ensuring double-spends don't appen?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

noman-land 3y ago

The fact that you're creating a user ID on a service is already third party. That service owns your username and you also have to trust them to store your password securely. Ethereum accounts are not tied to any service. They are just a public/private keypair so they can be used as portable usernames.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
I am party #1. I go to a website to make an account. They are party #2. I do not see a third party. Meanwhile, Mr. John "bro trust me bro your wallets secure bro nobody's going to just drop a viral token into your wallet to fuck with you bro" Ethereum is a 3rd party to the transaction between me and a website. I trust Ashley Madison with my password more than I trust the Web3 ecosystem and cryptobros to not fuck me over using the rules of their own rigged game.
- tough 3y ago
  That's dark bro https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36637736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36637736
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    Dark story, bro
- noman-land 3y ago
  This is not correct based on the laws of the United States. Other people's web servers are third parties, and when you use them, your data is not protected under the Fourth Amendment. "The third-party doctrine is a United States legal doctrine that holds that people who voluntarily give information to third parties—such as banks, phone companies, internet service providers (ISPs), and e-mail servers—have "no reasonable expectation of privacy" in that information. A lack of privacy protection allows the United States government to obtain information from third parties without a legal warrant and without otherwise complying with the Fourth Amendment prohibition against search and seizure without probable cause and a judicial search warrant." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

EGreg 3y ago

Old grouch is far better than the disingenuous people running around saying “stop using this technology!! It has no value, I have never seen it and it cant have any value!!” Basically the difference is that the username and password can be used to authenticate with that specific site and that’s it, while a “wallet” browser extension or app can let the user sign transactions and manage value outside your site, so they don’t have to trust your site (they approve all major transactions) and your site can’t impersonate them. You may think you won’t but one of your devs could go in for example and salami-slice the balances of your members, or change all the votes in a stackoverflow election etc.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
Oh I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not telling people to stop using the technology. Using Ethereum is certainly one of the choices of all time. I don't agree with it, but I am happy that people choose to engage with it. I love watching clowns.

loveparade 3y ago

In this case, there is nothing more anonymous about the Ethereum approach than a simple username/password. But there are some benefits in terms of data privacy. Most websites, especially social media, don't let you get away with just an anonymous username/password these days if you want to use their full functionality. They may want all kinds of other information from you, e.g. email address (3rd party), your phone number, ID verifcation, linked Google account with certain permissions to access private data, and so on. This data will be sent to their servers (as well as ad providers / Google) and linked with your identity. You have little control over this and can't remove it from their servers either. With the Ethereum approach, you can control this data about yourself. For example, with zero-knowledge proofs you could prove to a service that "I am over 18 and an US resident with a valid phone number" without sending any actual information about yourself to that party. Twitter shouldn't need your phone number. It just needs to know that you have one. Logging in with your Google account everywhere is convenient because it contains all kinds of facts about you. But you have no control over what's done with that data, either by Google or the service you're logging into. With "Log in wit Ethereum" you could get the same conveniences, but you still own your data and have full control over what's being done with it or who can access which parts of it.

jurynulifcation 3y ago
The wallet ID and public, immutable transaction logs still allows for entity resolution. There is, of course, a limit to the entity resolution that can be thus performed... much like there is with Web2 advertisers. In fact, it is the same limit. That limit is the ability of the user to prevent the system from resolving their identity based on their activities within the system. I'd dare say that it's probably even easier to dodge ER today than it would be in some hypothetical mega-dystopia where literally any blockchain is the default currency paradigm.

chayesfss 3y ago

[dead]