6 ms·

Anyone know the reasons for the cancellations? I didn't see that in the article.

benatkin 3y ago
More expensive and a pain to go to the conference. I guess that's a big part of why they're attempting to extend CalTrain to Salesforce Transit Center at a ridiculous per-mile cost.
- Calvin02 3y ago
  But aren’t most conference attendees from out of town? My guess is either shrinking demand for the conference (vs the cost) and or location desirability.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - benatkin 3y ago
    I'd have to see a map of where conference attendees stay. I assumed some would be commuting every day just like residents. I also could be wrong but I thought a lot would stay in hotels near the airport, especially those who live out of town but work for companies that have offices in South Bay and are going to visit the offices while they're in the Bay Area. One option for commuting conferencegoers is to take transit into the conference to beat the traffic and take Uber or Lyft back after having dinner near the conference, when there is less traffic. Except some would take it on the way back as well because the traffic got them to familiarize themselves with public transit.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  Moscone isn't that much closer to the Salesforce bus station than to Caltrain. It's about the same time once you add in the extra time to wind through the tunnel and get out of the terminal. The issue with Caltrain is it ends about 1.5 miles short of downtown.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Nobody's going to take Caltrain from the airport to Moscone. Spending a few billion dollars on a bus station is ridiculous but it's orthogonal to the issue at hand. Moscone now has a subway stop, which may help with downtown connectivity (but I won't hold my breath).
    - benatkin 3y ago
      Nobody? How about people staying at an airport hotel? And you realize that conference attendees have to fight traffic if they aren't staying at a hotel downtown, because conferences start at about the same time a regular work day starts.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Have you ever made the BART–Caltrain connection? Nobody in their right mind is going to do that if their final destination is Moscone. It takes the better part of half a mile to get from platform to platform, and originally I thought the connections weren't timed. Turns out it's worse. BART refuses to do timed connections on the weekends, and on the weekdays they pretend to time it. Connections from Caltrain to BART are 15–20 minutes. Going from BART (e.g. the airport) to Caltrain is not "timed" and is a 20–30 minute transfer. Icing on that shit cake is that BART doesn't run when the first few and last few Caltrain runs are made. So, yeah, nobody will do that. There's no reason to unless BART isn't running, in which case you're reliant on taxis/ubers or one of the scarce SamTrans buses that was gutted to pay for BART to get to the nearest Caltrain station (Millbrae). If they're coming from the airport they'll take BART to Powell and walk to Moscone or do the ridiculous transfer at Powell to the subway to nowhere and get off at Moscone station. It's all moot though as BART's not even stopping at Millbrae today because reasons.
        benatkin 3y ago
        I've made that transfer. It sucks but it's still a relevant option, especially for people who live next to a CalTrain station. A CalTrain that goes downtown would likely get them to make it easier for airport passengers to get to Millbrae. Because of that a CalTrain that goes downtown would be worth a lot, but still a tiny fraction of the proposed budget. I hope it doesn't happen if it's going to cost that much. The conference attendees when at the airport have their luggage. The airport hotel is a more realistic scenario. Or a CalTrain accessible hotel. And some of the airport hotels have good access both to CalTrain and the airport. I think more would if this extension were made.
- MisterSandman 3y ago
  To clarify, this is speculation, neither the articles nor the companies have said anything of this sort. RedHat have moved their conferences to Florida, so I highly doubt cost is a big reason. Florida itself is much cheaper, but a decent chunk of RedHat employees live in Cali, so flying them across the continent is not that much cheaper. EDIT: I was wrong, RedHat is mostly east coast, I'm sorry.
  - jboy55 3y ago
    Hasn't RedHat been headquartered in Raleigh since its inception? I knew a few people who moved out there for RedHat from the Bay Area.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Denial. No one's going to be honest about not having events there.
    - benatkin 3y ago
      Not denial from me, I was thinking of how the city might be trying to make it so people can get there more comfortably, which includes less chance of experiencing some of SF's problems. I don't think it's a very good plan because it's expensive and far into the future, but I think it's a part of the misguided approach the city is taking.
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        I've actually walked from the CalTrain station to Moscone. It's not all that far. (of course, your hotel is probably farther.)
        benatkin 3y ago
        So have I, haha. Except I've never been to Moscone. Just past it, dozens of times. I like Chaat Corner. That's more of a landmark for me than Moscone. Edit: wow, I've heard your voice before. You did an interview w/ Nassim Nicholas Taleb that I watched.
dehrmann 3y ago
Interestingly, they danced around it. It's one thing for conference organizers to not say it in case they want to come back, but normally local news will try to put it in a broader context.
treeman79 3y ago
Homelessness. Theft. Human poop everywhere, safety.
- lordnacho 3y ago
  It wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason. It really jumps out at you as a visitor. I mean literally last time I was there, a dude pooped in front of me. Another person ran into a restaurant to grab my leftovers. Numerous people were cursing at their imaginary enemy. All in areas of town where visitors might be quite common. It's really quite bad and it's an impression someone ought to do something about.
  - stanford_labrat 3y ago
    I found used condoms on and around my car not once but twice, and that was enough for me…
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Just make sure not to wear a technicolor dreamcoat and remember they won't refund your deposit.
  - stubybubs 3y ago
    West Coast city stuff then. It's everywhere. I'm convinced there isn't any kind of immediate solution to these problems. Not that we should give up on mental health and addictions treatment. I just think the solution is way broader. Reduce income inequality, improve schools, keep up the drug treatment so the children of people with drug problems stand a chance, better research about when opiate prescriptions are appropriate (like 24 hours post surgery at most then just acetaminophen), universal healthcare and childcare to stop people falling into poverty... Then wait a good 20 years for those things to ripple through society. I know HN loves solutioning and grand projects, but at least consider that this isn't always the way. Consider the article from a couple of days ago about letting ACL tears heal on their own rather than doing surgery. You cannot engineer your way out of everything and often it makes things worse.
AmericanOP 3y ago
Conferences are held downtown.
pixelgeek 3y ago
In lieu of Red Hat and Meta saying why they cancelled, it would be pure speculation.
MisterSandman 3y ago
Meta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). RedHat moved their conferences to other states in the US, but still plan on holding future conferences in SF. Which, to me, also sounds like a temporary cost saving measure. I highly doubt it's because of safety or homelessness, if that was the case then they wouldn't be commiting to hold future conferences in SF.
- fedbtfbh 3y ago
  > Meta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). Poorly informed comments like this by otherwise intwlligent people hurt hn. Meta is minting money right now.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  What makes you say Meta isn’t doing well now? 2022 was rough on them, but 2023 seems to be treating them well. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/
  - Tiktaalik 3y ago
    I would think at this scale of conference organization, the decisions around things to do in 2023 are being made deep in 2022. So they probably decided to cancel 2023 in the midst of the big layoffs and cost cutting of 2022.

More expensive and a pain to go to the conference. I guess that's a big part of why they're attempting to extend CalTrain to Salesforce Transit Center at a ridiculous per-mile cost.

Calvin02 3y ago
But aren’t most conference attendees from out of town? My guess is either shrinking demand for the conference (vs the cost) and or location desirability.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- benatkin 3y ago
  I'd have to see a map of where conference attendees stay. I assumed some would be commuting every day just like residents. I also could be wrong but I thought a lot would stay in hotels near the airport, especially those who live out of town but work for companies that have offices in South Bay and are going to visit the offices while they're in the Bay Area. One option for commuting conferencegoers is to take transit into the conference to beat the traffic and take Uber or Lyft back after having dinner near the conference, when there is less traffic. Except some would take it on the way back as well because the traffic got them to familiarize themselves with public transit.
dehrmann 3y ago
Moscone isn't that much closer to the Salesforce bus station than to Caltrain. It's about the same time once you add in the extra time to wind through the tunnel and get out of the terminal. The issue with Caltrain is it ends about 1.5 miles short of downtown.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  Nobody's going to take Caltrain from the airport to Moscone. Spending a few billion dollars on a bus station is ridiculous but it's orthogonal to the issue at hand. Moscone now has a subway stop, which may help with downtown connectivity (but I won't hold my breath).
  - benatkin 3y ago
    Nobody? How about people staying at an airport hotel? And you realize that conference attendees have to fight traffic if they aren't staying at a hotel downtown, because conferences start at about the same time a regular work day starts.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Have you ever made the BART–Caltrain connection? Nobody in their right mind is going to do that if their final destination is Moscone. It takes the better part of half a mile to get from platform to platform, and originally I thought the connections weren't timed. Turns out it's worse. BART refuses to do timed connections on the weekends, and on the weekdays they pretend to time it. Connections from Caltrain to BART are 15–20 minutes. Going from BART (e.g. the airport) to Caltrain is not "timed" and is a 20–30 minute transfer. Icing on that shit cake is that BART doesn't run when the first few and last few Caltrain runs are made. So, yeah, nobody will do that. There's no reason to unless BART isn't running, in which case you're reliant on taxis/ubers or one of the scarce SamTrans buses that was gutted to pay for BART to get to the nearest Caltrain station (Millbrae). If they're coming from the airport they'll take BART to Powell and walk to Moscone or do the ridiculous transfer at Powell to the subway to nowhere and get off at Moscone station. It's all moot though as BART's not even stopping at Millbrae today because reasons.
      - benatkin 3y ago
        I've made that transfer. It sucks but it's still a relevant option, especially for people who live next to a CalTrain station. A CalTrain that goes downtown would likely get them to make it easier for airport passengers to get to Millbrae. Because of that a CalTrain that goes downtown would be worth a lot, but still a tiny fraction of the proposed budget. I hope it doesn't happen if it's going to cost that much. The conference attendees when at the airport have their luggage. The airport hotel is a more realistic scenario. Or a CalTrain accessible hotel. And some of the airport hotels have good access both to CalTrain and the airport. I think more would if this extension were made.
MisterSandman 3y ago
To clarify, this is speculation, neither the articles nor the companies have said anything of this sort. RedHat have moved their conferences to Florida, so I highly doubt cost is a big reason. Florida itself is much cheaper, but a decent chunk of RedHat employees live in Cali, so flying them across the continent is not that much cheaper. EDIT: I was wrong, RedHat is mostly east coast, I'm sorry.
- jboy55 3y ago
  Hasn't RedHat been headquartered in Raleigh since its inception? I knew a few people who moved out there for RedHat from the Bay Area.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Denial. No one's going to be honest about not having events there.
  - benatkin 3y ago
    Not denial from me, I was thinking of how the city might be trying to make it so people can get there more comfortably, which includes less chance of experiencing some of SF's problems. I don't think it's a very good plan because it's expensive and far into the future, but I think it's a part of the misguided approach the city is taking.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      I've actually walked from the CalTrain station to Moscone. It's not all that far. (of course, your hotel is probably farther.)
      - benatkin 3y ago
        So have I, haha. Except I've never been to Moscone. Just past it, dozens of times. I like Chaat Corner. That's more of a landmark for me than Moscone. Edit: wow, I've heard your voice before. You did an interview w/ Nassim Nicholas Taleb that I watched.

dehrmann 3y ago

Interestingly, they danced around it. It's one thing for conference organizers to not say it in case they want to come back, but normally local news will try to put it in a broader context.

treeman79 3y ago

Homelessness. Theft. Human poop everywhere, safety.

lordnacho 3y ago
It wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason. It really jumps out at you as a visitor. I mean literally last time I was there, a dude pooped in front of me. Another person ran into a restaurant to grab my leftovers. Numerous people were cursing at their imaginary enemy. All in areas of town where visitors might be quite common. It's really quite bad and it's an impression someone ought to do something about.
- stanford_labrat 3y ago
  I found used condoms on and around my car not once but twice, and that was enough for me…
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Just make sure not to wear a technicolor dreamcoat and remember they won't refund your deposit.
- stubybubs 3y ago
  West Coast city stuff then. It's everywhere. I'm convinced there isn't any kind of immediate solution to these problems. Not that we should give up on mental health and addictions treatment. I just think the solution is way broader. Reduce income inequality, improve schools, keep up the drug treatment so the children of people with drug problems stand a chance, better research about when opiate prescriptions are appropriate (like 24 hours post surgery at most then just acetaminophen), universal healthcare and childcare to stop people falling into poverty... Then wait a good 20 years for those things to ripple through society. I know HN loves solutioning and grand projects, but at least consider that this isn't always the way. Consider the article from a couple of days ago about letting ACL tears heal on their own rather than doing surgery. You cannot engineer your way out of everything and often it makes things worse.

AmericanOP 3y ago

Conferences are held downtown.

pixelgeek 3y ago

In lieu of Red Hat and Meta saying why they cancelled, it would be pure speculation.

MisterSandman 3y ago

Meta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). RedHat moved their conferences to other states in the US, but still plan on holding future conferences in SF. Which, to me, also sounds like a temporary cost saving measure. I highly doubt it's because of safety or homelessness, if that was the case then they wouldn't be commiting to hold future conferences in SF.

fedbtfbh 3y ago
> Meta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). Poorly informed comments like this by otherwise intwlligent people hurt hn. Meta is minting money right now.
LeafItAlone 3y ago
What makes you say Meta isn’t doing well now? 2022 was rough on them, but 2023 seems to be treating them well. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  I would think at this scale of conference organization, the decisions around things to do in 2023 are being made deep in 2022. So they probably decided to cancel 2023 in the midst of the big layoffs and cost cutting of 2022.