3 ms·

Every single mechanism suggested (and has been used successfully in many other cities all over the world) to curb the trajectory SF is on is outright refused fo

Every single mechanism suggested (and has been used successfully in many other cities all over the world) to curb the trajectory SF is on is outright refused for either idealogical or political reasons. This is literally a problem of their own making. If the state of California legalized FAFO to include lethal force for self-defense, a vast majority of these problems would go away overnight.

gizmo385 3y ago
> If the state of California legalized FAFO to include lethal force for self-defense, a vast majority of these problems would go away overnight. I’m sorry, maybe I am misunderstanding but are you suggesting that we make it legal for you to just kill these people…?
- infamouscow 3y ago
  No. If you look over my comment history the last two years, you'll see I've advocated and argued against violence more than most here, despite it being unpopular most of the time. What I'm suggesting that if people voluntarily makes a decision to put others in existential immediate danger, then the those whose lives are in immediate danger shouldn't have to pause, think, or call a lawyer before protecting themselves from an existentially dangerous threat. If that means ending the life of the person that voluntarily made a very poor decision, that shouldn't be on the innocent person, nor should the innocent person have their life up-ended or put into financial ruin because the government failed and a person voluntarily decided to want to risk dying. There is no distinction between voluntarily deciding to jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and voluntarily deciding to put others in existential immediate danger. This line of reasoning and justification stems from the same causality as laws against drunk driving. It will be hundreds of years before political scientists and sociologists figure out how the state California managed to flip all this upside down.
  - mustacheemperor 3y ago
    The people complained about living on the streets of SF are generally doing and dealing drugs, not attacking random passerby. I don’t know what boogeymen this post is about, it’s completely orthogonal to the problems in downtown SF. Edit: as usual, I regret opening much less participating in any politics-adjacent topic on HN.
    - infamouscow 3y ago
      As someone that was homeless in SF for about a month, spare me your enlightened bullshit. My position applies just as much to the homeless as you.
      - mustacheemperor 3y ago
        To say your experience living in sf has been very different than mine would be an understatement, so please educate me why given your experience you think this would improve the safety of the city.
        infamouscow 3y ago
        If someone tries to rape or kill me, I am otherwise defenseless or have to just hope for the best. This really isn't difficult to understand.
        Clamchop 3y ago
        So you would not defend yourself in such mortal encounters because it hasn't been codified in law that you could or should? Are you suggesting lethal force ("find out") should be the very first intervention at the suspicion of a threat ("fuck around")? And if using lethal force were so liberalized, the city would assuredly be safer and there's no risk it would be more dangerous? Would it be safer for everyone? Is it OK if it isn't? It's not difficult to understand, but it isn't obvious that your ideas are good ones.
nradov 3y ago
It is already legal in California to use lethal force for self-defense when you are in fear of death or serious injury. So what are you suggesting exactly?
runamok 3y ago
Not to cherry pick but here are a handful of "red state cities" to compare too. Most have worse violent crime and much better property crime which aligns with my experience where leaving a stick of gum in your car was an invitation to get your car window broken. * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/dallas_tx/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/houston_tx/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/miami_fl/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/minneapolis_mn/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/wilmington_nc/san_francisco_ca/crime Also used this to pick a few cities with similar size: https://mapfight.xyz/map/san.francisco/ https://mapfight.xyz/map/san.francisco/ (edit: fix bullets)

gizmo385 3y ago

> If the state of California legalized FAFO to include lethal force for self-defense, a vast majority of these problems would go away overnight. I’m sorry, maybe I am misunderstanding but are you suggesting that we make it legal for you to just kill these people…?

infamouscow 3y ago
No. If you look over my comment history the last two years, you'll see I've advocated and argued against violence more than most here, despite it being unpopular most of the time. What I'm suggesting that if people voluntarily makes a decision to put others in existential immediate danger, then the those whose lives are in immediate danger shouldn't have to pause, think, or call a lawyer before protecting themselves from an existentially dangerous threat. If that means ending the life of the person that voluntarily made a very poor decision, that shouldn't be on the innocent person, nor should the innocent person have their life up-ended or put into financial ruin because the government failed and a person voluntarily decided to want to risk dying. There is no distinction between voluntarily deciding to jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and voluntarily deciding to put others in existential immediate danger. This line of reasoning and justification stems from the same causality as laws against drunk driving. It will be hundreds of years before political scientists and sociologists figure out how the state California managed to flip all this upside down.
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  The people complained about living on the streets of SF are generally doing and dealing drugs, not attacking random passerby. I don’t know what boogeymen this post is about, it’s completely orthogonal to the problems in downtown SF. Edit: as usual, I regret opening much less participating in any politics-adjacent topic on HN.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    As someone that was homeless in SF for about a month, spare me your enlightened bullshit. My position applies just as much to the homeless as you.
    - mustacheemperor 3y ago
      To say your experience living in sf has been very different than mine would be an understatement, so please educate me why given your experience you think this would improve the safety of the city.
      - infamouscow 3y ago
        If someone tries to rape or kill me, I am otherwise defenseless or have to just hope for the best. This really isn't difficult to understand.
        Clamchop 3y ago
        So you would not defend yourself in such mortal encounters because it hasn't been codified in law that you could or should? Are you suggesting lethal force ("find out") should be the very first intervention at the suspicion of a threat ("fuck around")? And if using lethal force were so liberalized, the city would assuredly be safer and there's no risk it would be more dangerous? Would it be safer for everyone? Is it OK if it isn't? It's not difficult to understand, but it isn't obvious that your ideas are good ones.

nradov 3y ago

It is already legal in California to use lethal force for self-defense when you are in fear of death or serious injury. So what are you suggesting exactly?

runamok 3y ago

Not to cherry pick but here are a handful of "red state cities" to compare too. Most have worse violent crime and much better property crime which aligns with my experience where leaving a stick of gum in your car was an invitation to get your car window broken. * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/dallas_tx/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/houston_tx/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/miami_fl/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/minneapolis_mn/san_francisco_ca/crime * https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/wilmington_nc/san_francisco_ca/crime Also used this to pick a few cities with similar size: https://mapfight.xyz/map/san.francisco/ https://mapfight.xyz/map/san.francisco/ (edit: fix bullets)