7 ms·

San Francisco Airbnb bookings plunge as city battles bad press

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Isn't Airbnb nosediving everywhere? It's no longer cheaper than a hotel and can't be assumed to provide the equivalent level of hospitality.
- redwood 3y ago
  After a host canceled on me the evening of New Year's Eve as I was arriving in a city I never booked Airbnb again
  - schappim 3y ago
    How did you get around it? Were you able to get a hotel? Did AirBNB assist you?
    - redwood 3y ago
      They certainly did not assist no but I went door to door for a few hours and eventually found a hotel
- tsuujin 3y ago
  Yeah this is my take as well. I used to Airbnb every time I travelled out of state for work, but the last couple of times has convinced me that it’s no longer a real option. Scummy contracts, poorly maintained rentals, and nonsense followups seem to be the standard, and it’s basically the same cost as a decent hotel room. I can’t see a reason today not to just use the hotel. Sucks, because my initial experiences were really good, it only started to be awful after property management companies started buying cheap homes to use as airbnb rentals.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    I'm curious. Are you using hotels, hostels, or maybe something else?
    - tsuujin 3y ago
      I actually really like hostels, I always seem to meet someone interesting to chat with, but normally my best option seems to be a hotel. You do get what you pay for though. A Motel 6 is going to be lousy in general but if you opt for something a little nicer you do tend to get a cleaner room and better service.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - jcims 3y ago
    For business travel I’m not going to risk it. But for personal travel I’m still finding the vast majority of properties are well maintained and, for me anyway, multitudes more comfortable than a hotel room. Just the fact that i can stop at a store and buy a hundred dollars worth of groceries that will last me three days is worth it. The number one issue I have with airbnb is that you are completely on your own to resolve issues with the host. And some hosts are scumbags.
    - randycupertino 3y ago
      > For business travel I’m not going to risk it. Things just as simple as arriving become major pains. "Oh the key code isn't working, I'm sorry, I'll send the handyman to meet you, he's at dinner then he's 40 minutes away so he'll be there in two hours." I'm on vacation, I want to show up when I show up. Hotels are nice because you can just check in when you get there. After one key code box that wasn't working and another where they were clearly renting the airbnb in secret from their neighbors and had a bunch of rules like no carrying your luggage through the common areas (um, okay how are we supposed to bring our stuff in then?), I'm done with airbnb. Hotels might not be as sexy but at least they functionally work.
- gotaran 3y ago
  Uh, hotels in SF are faring even worse. A few Hilton (?) property owners decided to default on their loans.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Isn't this basically the story of big startups in last 10 years? - Upend an industry - either by evading existing regulations until you're too big to stop or with unsustainable pricing, availability, and/or quality of service by burning VC money. (or both) - Try to become profitable. - Find out why said industry had regulations/poor margins/bad service/limited availability when VC money runs out. Examples are numerous, but top of mind for me are Movie Pass and WeWork because they were so obviously never going to be profitable. It's also weird that companies like this get labelled "tech companies".
- farnsworth 3y ago
  People keep saying this but this has not been my experience anywhere. Where do you see this? What gets me a pretty nice little airbnb, private room with kitchen and bedroom and working space, only is going to get a sort of crummy hotel room that feels a little damp with kids yelling from the next room. I really don't understand the economics that leads hotel rooms to be so expensive.
  - cheekibreeki2 3y ago
    I feel let down by many of the airbnbs we have visited lately. There is always some weird aspect that was never represented properly. I've always loved nice hotels tho. They've all been nicer than hostels tho.
- olliej 3y ago
  And you get told to spend hours cleaning and washing everything under the threat of extortionate "cleaning fees", what fun!
loandbehold 3y ago
Is there any data showing SF AirBnbs are going down? This is just a single host.
- none_to_remain 3y ago
  They give two sources of broader data, which you can take as you please: > Freedman is the owner of HostWell, a company that helps manage properties for short-term rental hosts across the Bay Area. [ ... ] Freedman estimated that pricing for Airbnbs in San Francisco is down about 40% from last year, and occupancy has declined by roughly 20-25%. > According to short-term rental data company AirDNA, nights stayed in vacation rentals in San Francisco in May 2023 were down 29% from May 2019. Interestingly there was no mention of asking AirBnb themelves for the ground truth.
  - rcme 3y ago
    Those numbers could also be a consequence of more people trying to rent out AirBnBs right? That’s always the biggest issue trusting host-reported occupancy rates.
  - loandbehold 3y ago
    HostWell data talks about occupancy of individual units. That tells nothing about total number of bookings. Supply of AirBnb units has been increasing faster than demand. That's why occupancy is decreasing. It doesn't show decrease demand for AirBnb. As far as AirDNA data I'm not sure whether they are talking about total nights stayed or something else. But I can certainly believe it's 30% below pre-pandemic levels. Chinese tourist flow hasn't recovered. That alone may account for most of the decrease vs 2019.
hindsightbias 3y ago
If only. I drove thru the dystopian hellscape today and all I saw were tourists.
holtkam2 3y ago
Well I must say it’s quite a beautiful afternoon out here in the dystopian hellscape. Just got back from a run in fort mason and it was loaded with tourists.
- gotaran 3y ago
  That’s blatant cherry-picking. North Beach and the Marina are the only two neighborhoods in the core of SF that resemble pre-COVID normalcy. Go to the Mission, the Castro, the Haight, Hayes Valley, or FiDi. It’s a disaster. Assuming that the massive loss of tax receipts won’t have any affect on the city is delusional.
  - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    Uh... Hayes and Mission may be different from pre-Covid, but they're no disaster.
    - stouset 3y ago
      I go through HV on my way home in the late evenings four or five times a week. It is always packed with people and it’s genuinely hard to ride or drive through there with the insane number of Ubers and delivery drivers doing pickups who are double parked on both sides.
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    >North Beach and the Marina are the only two neighborhoods in the core of SF that resemble pre-COVID normalcy. North Beach last month had that shootout between two cars down the Embarcadero. <https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-shooting-pier-39-embarcadero-sf-suspect-arrested-gun-battle/13402712/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-shooting-pier-39-embarcad...>
  - akira2501 3y ago
    > Go to the Mission, the Castro, the Haight, Hayes Valley, or FiDi. It’s a disaster. Ah.. the "bad press" has struck there too. Poor San Francisco city leadership. They just can't catch a break.
mighmi 3y ago
I asked this on another thread: > What are your thoughts on the city's future? I've seen a lot of doomerish articles of late, many did seem to leave during Covid etc. however I still know many who happily look to buy property or relocate to the city right now. Do you believe the core innovation drive is in trouble, threatening it becoming a new Detroit? (Or even just the city itself, while the suburbs continue to boom and do well in the future as the city collapses - like Metrodetroit?)
- code_runner 3y ago
  I’ve heard only bad from people who grew up there and have been back to visit family over the years. Obviously just anecdotal but I think that’s how this sort of info spreads.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    I live in the Bay and follow this news closely, particularly the narratives as they are formed and whom they are constructed to serve. There was a lot of vitriol directed at Chesa Boudin using questionably skewed interpretations of city statistics. The consensus among those in the know is that it was largely motivated by commercial real estate and other reactionary interests reacting to the perceived influences of his advocacy (note that DAs don't enjoy the privilege of "policies" despite what the loudmouths would have you believe) on real estate prices, when in reality we were living through a pandemic that kept people at home on Zoom and made tech offices largely redundant. Many retail giants also pulled out of SF because foot traffic was way down and profits dwindled (again an effect primarily of the pandemic), but the way it was framed in the news was as purely-anecdotal (i.e. no hard data provided because none is collected) anonymously-sourced claims about "shoplifting epidemics". Those with too much time on their hands -- especially techies who enjoy the free time during their workdays to rile themselves up doomscrolling local news websites -- ranted about it on Twitter and, if especially incensed, at their councilmembers, and the shadowy big money local behemoths rode that wave of narrative and perception to wage war on progressive efforts all across the city. No one I know who left SF and comes back to visit say anything like what you suggest, but then again they've always repped SF and left for reasons that were in conflict with their evergreen love of the city and what it stands for in our cultural consciousness.
jimt1234 3y ago
Where did this recent-ish "hellscape" reputation come from? San Francisco has always been a "hellscape"; there's always been homeless, crime, drugs, etc. I've been going into San Francisco since the 80s and it doesn't seem like much has changed. If anything, I think I've/we've changed to be less tolerant of that stuff. Maybe that's just part of everyone getting older. Or, maybe everyone moved to San Francisco expecting it to be paradise, but quickly discovered it has problems just like every other city. Or, maybe the reputation is just a boogeyman created by politicians and political pundits. Not sure.
- okdood64 3y ago
  > Maybe that's just part of everyone getting older. There's younger people to replace the older people.
  - gotaran 3y ago
    Except, in this case, there aren’t. WFH + a nonexistent job market for CS grads means that there isn’t much of an influx.
    - hindsightbias 3y ago
      You need to tall them that. https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/06/30/san-franciscos-a-i-boom-in-hayes-valley.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/06/30/san-franciscos-a-i-boo... I had to wait in line for my latte today. An it’s not even hipbrew.
      - gotaran 3y ago
        I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but “Cerebral Valley” is pure cringe. It has the energy of a third tier tech city like Boise or Vegas trying to “make it”.
        yodon 3y ago
        You may not like the branding but any other metro region would kill to have the density of startup activity that Hayes Valley is spawning right now. Obviously most of these startups won't make it long term, but some will, and the connections that are being made among the participants will be an important part of tech for the next decade. I've heard many people observe they haven't felt anything like this vibe in the tech community in a long time. What's happening in this part of SF (not just Hayes Valley, but more broadly) is definitely important.
Simulacra 3y ago
This is just AirBNB. According to the SF Travel Association, "tourism is down about 16% from 2019." That doesn't seem like that much of a drop for San Francisco. If it were closing in on 30% then that is bad. It pains me to see stories about the "demise" of San Francisco. I lived above a bar in the Noe Valley and it was incredible. Now I would choose some place else to visit, things are unpredictable right now with crime and enforcement. My urban days are over, perhaps, but I would prefer something more stable and peaceful.
- gotaran 3y ago
  I find it hard to believe that it’s just 16%. The last time I saw that stat, it was just tourism revenue without inflation adjustments. I left SF late last year and I visit quarterly on business. It’s obvious that business travel is way down looking at hotel vacancies.
- randycupertino 3y ago
  > I lived above a bar in the Noe Valley and it was incredible. This is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say anything good about living above a bar other than the rent was cheap! Wasn't it loud? Smokers constantly outside your windows?
  - Simulacra 3y ago
    I was on the third floor and the bar was rarely an issue. It might get rowdy during the early evening hours but by 10 it was quiet and the owners did a good job keeping it that way. As for the smokers.. from what I remember they went out the back door of the bar so it wasn't an issue in front. That rent though... That was good.
Tempest1981 3y ago
Time to re-purpose some of those Airbnb properties as long-term rentals.
lexandstuff 3y ago
Airbnb bookings are down worldwide because interest rates are sky-high, and people have less discretionary spending. Here's an article from Australia talking about how Airbnb bookings are down in our tourist destinations: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-19/airbnb-hosts-revert-back-to-long-term-rentals/102468936 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-19/airbnb-hosts-revert-b...
- BadCookie 3y ago
  I’m not sure I believe that people have less discretionary spending, at least in the US. According to one article[1], hotel prices are up 54% year-over-year. Anecdotally, restaurant prices are up by a similar amount compared to pre-pandemic. Things might change when all of the people with paused student loans have to resume repaying them later this year, but we’ll see. [1] https://money.com/hotel-prices-up-2023-travel/ https://money.com/hotel-prices-up-2023-travel/
  - tarsinge 3y ago
    Prices alone are not useful without volume. How is Hotel occupancy or how are dining out habits compared to pre pandemic? Maybe there are fewer customers with deeper pockets?
    - BadCookie 3y ago
      You make a good point, but everything seems very busy at restaurants and shopping centers to me. Many times, I have wanted to go out to some restaurant and found that it was booked out for weeks. So I’m finding the “low volume” idea hard to believe. It may be that there are fewer restaurants now than before, but demand is certainly there in my area. Some people are stretching their credit cards[1], but also people saved up while the pandemic was in high gear and that savings is not yet exhausted for everyone. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/consumers-record-credit-card-debt-pandemic-savings-dwindle-7494611 https://www.investopedia.com/consumers-record-credit-card-de...
      - 3y ago
renewiltord 3y ago
All that's very well to report but a one month 2 br Airbnb in SF is going to cost you some $6k if you aren't lucky enough to get a Blueground on the cheap. Just look right now. It's been that way for months.
diogenescynic 3y ago
It's not just bad press--the city is fundamentally mismanaged and not safe. Car break ins are shockingly common and not at all addressed by SFPD. You can get violently robbed in public and no one is going to intervene.
- Our_Benefactors 3y ago
  > You can get violently robbed in public and no one is going to intervene. Show me a city where this is not the case. In real life, people tend not to interject themselves into violent crimes in progress.
  - diogenescynic 3y ago
    In other cities it mostly happens in the 'bad' parts of town so it's easier to avoid. In SF, it happens frequently at the most visited tourist spots and most expensive housing areas--Alamo Square, Twin Peaks, Fisherman's Wharf, North Beach, Marina are all now targets because criminals know that's where the highest concentrations of wealth are and there are no consequences.
more_corn 3y ago
It’s not bad press. Bad press implies that the stories are untrue. But the stories are totally true.The city is untenable. Drugs done openly in the streets, rampant crime getting bolder and bolder. The cops don’t do shit. And people aren’t allowed to defend themselves. You hear about the repeated armed robberies in noe valley? Mothers getting beaten and robbed for their phones. the cops had the perpetrators location and did jack shit. So what happened? they came back and did it again the next day. Same people, same block, same MO. When you don’t intervene criminals just keep on doin crime. So huh. People stop coming to SF. How could anyone have predicted this!? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really blame the cops for going limp. Justice is a multi part process. Without the other parts in place, the sharp end of the stick is useless.

Isn't Airbnb nosediving everywhere? It's no longer cheaper than a hotel and can't be assumed to provide the equivalent level of hospitality.

redwood 3y ago
After a host canceled on me the evening of New Year's Eve as I was arriving in a city I never booked Airbnb again
- schappim 3y ago
  How did you get around it? Were you able to get a hotel? Did AirBNB assist you?
  - redwood 3y ago
    They certainly did not assist no but I went door to door for a few hours and eventually found a hotel
tsuujin 3y ago
Yeah this is my take as well. I used to Airbnb every time I travelled out of state for work, but the last couple of times has convinced me that it’s no longer a real option. Scummy contracts, poorly maintained rentals, and nonsense followups seem to be the standard, and it’s basically the same cost as a decent hotel room. I can’t see a reason today not to just use the hotel. Sucks, because my initial experiences were really good, it only started to be awful after property management companies started buying cheap homes to use as airbnb rentals.
- infamouscow 3y ago
  I'm curious. Are you using hotels, hostels, or maybe something else?
  - tsuujin 3y ago
    I actually really like hostels, I always seem to meet someone interesting to chat with, but normally my best option seems to be a hotel. You do get what you pay for though. A Motel 6 is going to be lousy in general but if you opt for something a little nicer you do tend to get a cleaner room and better service.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- jcims 3y ago
  For business travel I’m not going to risk it. But for personal travel I’m still finding the vast majority of properties are well maintained and, for me anyway, multitudes more comfortable than a hotel room. Just the fact that i can stop at a store and buy a hundred dollars worth of groceries that will last me three days is worth it. The number one issue I have with airbnb is that you are completely on your own to resolve issues with the host. And some hosts are scumbags.
  - randycupertino 3y ago
    > For business travel I’m not going to risk it. Things just as simple as arriving become major pains. "Oh the key code isn't working, I'm sorry, I'll send the handyman to meet you, he's at dinner then he's 40 minutes away so he'll be there in two hours." I'm on vacation, I want to show up when I show up. Hotels are nice because you can just check in when you get there. After one key code box that wasn't working and another where they were clearly renting the airbnb in secret from their neighbors and had a bunch of rules like no carrying your luggage through the common areas (um, okay how are we supposed to bring our stuff in then?), I'm done with airbnb. Hotels might not be as sexy but at least they functionally work.
gotaran 3y ago
Uh, hotels in SF are faring even worse. A few Hilton (?) property owners decided to default on their loans.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Isn't this basically the story of big startups in last 10 years? - Upend an industry - either by evading existing regulations until you're too big to stop or with unsustainable pricing, availability, and/or quality of service by burning VC money. (or both) - Try to become profitable. - Find out why said industry had regulations/poor margins/bad service/limited availability when VC money runs out. Examples are numerous, but top of mind for me are Movie Pass and WeWork because they were so obviously never going to be profitable. It's also weird that companies like this get labelled "tech companies".
farnsworth 3y ago
People keep saying this but this has not been my experience anywhere. Where do you see this? What gets me a pretty nice little airbnb, private room with kitchen and bedroom and working space, only is going to get a sort of crummy hotel room that feels a little damp with kids yelling from the next room. I really don't understand the economics that leads hotel rooms to be so expensive.
- cheekibreeki2 3y ago
  I feel let down by many of the airbnbs we have visited lately. There is always some weird aspect that was never represented properly. I've always loved nice hotels tho. They've all been nicer than hostels tho.
olliej 3y ago
And you get told to spend hours cleaning and washing everything under the threat of extortionate "cleaning fees", what fun!

loandbehold 3y ago

Is there any data showing SF AirBnbs are going down? This is just a single host.

none_to_remain 3y ago
They give two sources of broader data, which you can take as you please: > Freedman is the owner of HostWell, a company that helps manage properties for short-term rental hosts across the Bay Area. [ ... ] Freedman estimated that pricing for Airbnbs in San Francisco is down about 40% from last year, and occupancy has declined by roughly 20-25%. > According to short-term rental data company AirDNA, nights stayed in vacation rentals in San Francisco in May 2023 were down 29% from May 2019. Interestingly there was no mention of asking AirBnb themelves for the ground truth.
- rcme 3y ago
  Those numbers could also be a consequence of more people trying to rent out AirBnBs right? That’s always the biggest issue trusting host-reported occupancy rates.
- loandbehold 3y ago
  HostWell data talks about occupancy of individual units. That tells nothing about total number of bookings. Supply of AirBnb units has been increasing faster than demand. That's why occupancy is decreasing. It doesn't show decrease demand for AirBnb. As far as AirDNA data I'm not sure whether they are talking about total nights stayed or something else. But I can certainly believe it's 30% below pre-pandemic levels. Chinese tourist flow hasn't recovered. That alone may account for most of the decrease vs 2019.

hindsightbias 3y ago

If only. I drove thru the dystopian hellscape today and all I saw were tourists.

holtkam2 3y ago

Well I must say it’s quite a beautiful afternoon out here in the dystopian hellscape. Just got back from a run in fort mason and it was loaded with tourists.

gotaran 3y ago
That’s blatant cherry-picking. North Beach and the Marina are the only two neighborhoods in the core of SF that resemble pre-COVID normalcy. Go to the Mission, the Castro, the Haight, Hayes Valley, or FiDi. It’s a disaster. Assuming that the massive loss of tax receipts won’t have any affect on the city is delusional.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Uh... Hayes and Mission may be different from pre-Covid, but they're no disaster.
  - stouset 3y ago
    I go through HV on my way home in the late evenings four or five times a week. It is always packed with people and it’s genuinely hard to ride or drive through there with the insane number of Ubers and delivery drivers doing pickups who are double parked on both sides.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >North Beach and the Marina are the only two neighborhoods in the core of SF that resemble pre-COVID normalcy. North Beach last month had that shootout between two cars down the Embarcadero. <https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-shooting-pier-39-embarcadero-sf-suspect-arrested-gun-battle/13402712/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-shooting-pier-39-embarcad...>
- akira2501 3y ago
  > Go to the Mission, the Castro, the Haight, Hayes Valley, or FiDi. It’s a disaster. Ah.. the "bad press" has struck there too. Poor San Francisco city leadership. They just can't catch a break.

mighmi 3y ago

I asked this on another thread: > What are your thoughts on the city's future? I've seen a lot of doomerish articles of late, many did seem to leave during Covid etc. however I still know many who happily look to buy property or relocate to the city right now. Do you believe the core innovation drive is in trouble, threatening it becoming a new Detroit? (Or even just the city itself, while the suburbs continue to boom and do well in the future as the city collapses - like Metrodetroit?)

code_runner 3y ago
I’ve heard only bad from people who grew up there and have been back to visit family over the years. Obviously just anecdotal but I think that’s how this sort of info spreads.
- uoaei 3y ago
  I live in the Bay and follow this news closely, particularly the narratives as they are formed and whom they are constructed to serve. There was a lot of vitriol directed at Chesa Boudin using questionably skewed interpretations of city statistics. The consensus among those in the know is that it was largely motivated by commercial real estate and other reactionary interests reacting to the perceived influences of his advocacy (note that DAs don't enjoy the privilege of "policies" despite what the loudmouths would have you believe) on real estate prices, when in reality we were living through a pandemic that kept people at home on Zoom and made tech offices largely redundant. Many retail giants also pulled out of SF because foot traffic was way down and profits dwindled (again an effect primarily of the pandemic), but the way it was framed in the news was as purely-anecdotal (i.e. no hard data provided because none is collected) anonymously-sourced claims about "shoplifting epidemics". Those with too much time on their hands -- especially techies who enjoy the free time during their workdays to rile themselves up doomscrolling local news websites -- ranted about it on Twitter and, if especially incensed, at their councilmembers, and the shadowy big money local behemoths rode that wave of narrative and perception to wage war on progressive efforts all across the city. No one I know who left SF and comes back to visit say anything like what you suggest, but then again they've always repped SF and left for reasons that were in conflict with their evergreen love of the city and what it stands for in our cultural consciousness.

jimt1234 3y ago

Where did this recent-ish "hellscape" reputation come from? San Francisco has always been a "hellscape"; there's always been homeless, crime, drugs, etc. I've been going into San Francisco since the 80s and it doesn't seem like much has changed. If anything, I think I've/we've changed to be less tolerant of that stuff. Maybe that's just part of everyone getting older. Or, maybe everyone moved to San Francisco expecting it to be paradise, but quickly discovered it has problems just like every other city. Or, maybe the reputation is just a boogeyman created by politicians and political pundits. Not sure.

okdood64 3y ago
> Maybe that's just part of everyone getting older. There's younger people to replace the older people.
- gotaran 3y ago
  Except, in this case, there aren’t. WFH + a nonexistent job market for CS grads means that there isn’t much of an influx.
  - hindsightbias 3y ago
    You need to tall them that. https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/06/30/san-franciscos-a-i-boom-in-hayes-valley.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/06/30/san-franciscos-a-i-boo... I had to wait in line for my latte today. An it’s not even hipbrew.
    - gotaran 3y ago
      I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but “Cerebral Valley” is pure cringe. It has the energy of a third tier tech city like Boise or Vegas trying to “make it”.
      - yodon 3y ago
        You may not like the branding but any other metro region would kill to have the density of startup activity that Hayes Valley is spawning right now. Obviously most of these startups won't make it long term, but some will, and the connections that are being made among the participants will be an important part of tech for the next decade. I've heard many people observe they haven't felt anything like this vibe in the tech community in a long time. What's happening in this part of SF (not just Hayes Valley, but more broadly) is definitely important.

Simulacra 3y ago

This is just AirBNB. According to the SF Travel Association, "tourism is down about 16% from 2019." That doesn't seem like that much of a drop for San Francisco. If it were closing in on 30% then that is bad. It pains me to see stories about the "demise" of San Francisco. I lived above a bar in the Noe Valley and it was incredible. Now I would choose some place else to visit, things are unpredictable right now with crime and enforcement. My urban days are over, perhaps, but I would prefer something more stable and peaceful.

gotaran 3y ago
I find it hard to believe that it’s just 16%. The last time I saw that stat, it was just tourism revenue without inflation adjustments. I left SF late last year and I visit quarterly on business. It’s obvious that business travel is way down looking at hotel vacancies.
randycupertino 3y ago
> I lived above a bar in the Noe Valley and it was incredible. This is honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone say anything good about living above a bar other than the rent was cheap! Wasn't it loud? Smokers constantly outside your windows?
- Simulacra 3y ago
  I was on the third floor and the bar was rarely an issue. It might get rowdy during the early evening hours but by 10 it was quiet and the owners did a good job keeping it that way. As for the smokers.. from what I remember they went out the back door of the bar so it wasn't an issue in front. That rent though... That was good.

Tempest1981 3y ago

Time to re-purpose some of those Airbnb properties as long-term rentals.

lexandstuff 3y ago

Airbnb bookings are down worldwide because interest rates are sky-high, and people have less discretionary spending. Here's an article from Australia talking about how Airbnb bookings are down in our tourist destinations: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-19/airbnb-hosts-revert-back-to-long-term-rentals/102468936 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-19/airbnb-hosts-revert-b...

BadCookie 3y ago
I’m not sure I believe that people have less discretionary spending, at least in the US. According to one article[1], hotel prices are up 54% year-over-year. Anecdotally, restaurant prices are up by a similar amount compared to pre-pandemic. Things might change when all of the people with paused student loans have to resume repaying them later this year, but we’ll see. [1] https://money.com/hotel-prices-up-2023-travel/ https://money.com/hotel-prices-up-2023-travel/
- tarsinge 3y ago
  Prices alone are not useful without volume. How is Hotel occupancy or how are dining out habits compared to pre pandemic? Maybe there are fewer customers with deeper pockets?
  - BadCookie 3y ago
    You make a good point, but everything seems very busy at restaurants and shopping centers to me. Many times, I have wanted to go out to some restaurant and found that it was booked out for weeks. So I’m finding the “low volume” idea hard to believe. It may be that there are fewer restaurants now than before, but demand is certainly there in my area. Some people are stretching their credit cards[1], but also people saved up while the pandemic was in high gear and that savings is not yet exhausted for everyone. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/consumers-record-credit-card-debt-pandemic-savings-dwindle-7494611 https://www.investopedia.com/consumers-record-credit-card-de...
    - 3y ago

renewiltord 3y ago

All that's very well to report but a one month 2 br Airbnb in SF is going to cost you some $6k if you aren't lucky enough to get a Blueground on the cheap. Just look right now. It's been that way for months.

diogenescynic 3y ago

It's not just bad press--the city is fundamentally mismanaged and not safe. Car break ins are shockingly common and not at all addressed by SFPD. You can get violently robbed in public and no one is going to intervene.

Our_Benefactors 3y ago
> You can get violently robbed in public and no one is going to intervene. Show me a city where this is not the case. In real life, people tend not to interject themselves into violent crimes in progress.
- diogenescynic 3y ago
  In other cities it mostly happens in the 'bad' parts of town so it's easier to avoid. In SF, it happens frequently at the most visited tourist spots and most expensive housing areas--Alamo Square, Twin Peaks, Fisherman's Wharf, North Beach, Marina are all now targets because criminals know that's where the highest concentrations of wealth are and there are no consequences.

more_corn 3y ago

It’s not bad press. Bad press implies that the stories are untrue. But the stories are totally true.The city is untenable. Drugs done openly in the streets, rampant crime getting bolder and bolder. The cops don’t do shit. And people aren’t allowed to defend themselves. You hear about the repeated armed robberies in noe valley? Mothers getting beaten and robbed for their phones. the cops had the perpetrators location and did jack shit. So what happened? they came back and did it again the next day. Same people, same block, same MO. When you don’t intervene criminals just keep on doin crime. So huh. People stop coming to SF. How could anyone have predicted this!? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really blame the cops for going limp. Justice is a multi part process. Without the other parts in place, the sharp end of the stick is useless.