5 ms·

Twitter’s legal letter to Meta: a guided tour of a weak litigation letter

80 points by AndrewDucker 3y ago

ksaj 3y ago
It does appear Twitter's legal experts were also fired / laid off when Elon took the reins. When I first read it, I thought some of it sounded really amateur. I've read lots of lawyerese (I used to provide expert testimony in certain types of technical cases), and this did not come across like it was written by a legal expert of any level. Now reading this analysis, there are a lot more bells going off. I personally would disregard it - and if forced to respond, I would require a rewritten letter with an appropriate level of authority in its wording.
- berberous 3y ago
  The letter was sent by a partner at Quinn Emanuel, a well known and highly regarded litigation firm.
  - dogmayor 3y ago
    Well known yes. Highly regarded ehh not so much. Anyways, what matters most is the attorney rather than the firm.
    - ksaj 3y ago
      The letter certainly isn't written in a "highly regardable" way. That's for sure. The vagueness alone is enough to realize it's aimless. I doubt I worked with lawyers at this particular level before, but their letters tended to be bullet proof in their detail and specificity. I would automatically question this one because it doesn't really say very much, yet takes 2 pages to attempt saying something.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    I mean, sure. That partner was Alex Spiro, Musk's long time personal lawyer. I'm sure he's brought in enough money from Musk to earn partner regardless of the quality of his work. I mean, it's clear Musk works with him due to his willingness to charge after whatever nonsense Musk wants.
    - dogmayor 3y ago
      Exactly
- jfray2k22 3y ago
  The section that Spiro included about robots.txt belies just how amateurish this attempt is. That file has become the effective standard for instructing web scraping utilities, but is nothing more than a strong recommendation and is absolutely not legally binding in any way. It's bizarre that Spiro wouldn't already understand this, but even weirder that it appears he didn't even research the topic or have an associate/junior partner with more applicable tech knowledge give it the once over. Possibly, Spiro and Musk were provided that feedback and purposely ignored it due to their outsized egos. What's most obnoxious though is that Musk fired the employees in question while avoiding paying their agreed severance, and then has the gall to invoke the specter of non-compete agreements. I would hope that Spiro, or his firm, would at least be aware that non-competes are unenforceable in California and many other states. All of this shit is nutty as hell.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
rhatexer 3y ago
I think this letter was sent out as a publicity tactic for the upcoming Musk vs Zuck cage fight.
jbverschoor 3y ago
Elon also didn’t manage to get out of the Twitter deal. Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants. Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. And we’ll, it’s multi-billions at stake, so why not try :)
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  “Titter”
- more_corn 3y ago
  To be fair he didn’t get out of his deal to buy Twitter because he presented an absolute ironclad bulletproof offer. He did so to convince the board that they had no choice but to accept. Then when he reconsidered he couldn’t get out. Because… see above.
- tssva 3y ago
  > Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants. > Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. His sense of humor like his other behavior is similar to that of a 5 year old child.
  - cyanydeez 3y ago
    He also coddles fascism in transparent greed.
  - phatskat 3y ago
    Yeah, parroting memes poorly and saying “I’m rich, biotch” oh stage with Dave Chapelle isn’t exactly funny. He’s worth more than most of humanity combined and that line falls flat - heck he even got booed for it.
- phatskat 3y ago
  > Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. I’m gonna need citations on both of these. What has he actually made? He’s been know to take credit for a lot of things, and he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people, but ultimately he doesn’t make or come up with much of anything that I’m aware of. Also his sense of humor is…awful. It does appeal to one particular group largely, and they all have blue check marks because that is a meaningless badge these days.
dogmayor 3y ago
(American lawyer here) Yeah, this letter is as weak as they come. An empty threat that Meta won't sweat and was most likely anticipating from the time they began dev. This reading of the letter is spot on.
meepmorp 3y ago
I hope the response was a single poop emoji
- aio2 3y ago
  lol
kevincox 3y ago
What is the point of sending such a letter? Just to let them know that you are scared?
- appleflaxen 3y ago
  SEO, so that Twitter comes up when you search for threads
- tqi 3y ago
  Probably to generate press coverage. Also to placate certain execs.
  - Zigurd 3y ago
    The only "exec" to placate is Linda Yaccarino, who's probably three sheets to the wind at Smuggler's by now.
mthoms 3y ago
The site appears to be down. Read it here. https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidallengreen.com/2023/07/a-close-reading-of-twitters-legal-letter-to-meta-a-guided-tour-of-a-weak-litigation-letter/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidalle...
maxclark 3y ago
People seem to forget this is ordinary course of business for big tech. Internal Tech Emails is a goldmine of letters, threats, and lawsuits back and forth.
mthoms 3y ago
This was actually sent by Elon's personal lawyer. Make of that what you will but I get the feeling this letter was composed entirely for Elon's fanboys. How long before Musk claims that he can't pursue the issue because [insert purported flaw in US legal system here]?
- gtirloni 3y ago
  From politicians to CEOs, we're living in the memeconomy. Nobody cares anymore.
- _jal 3y ago
  Does Twitter have any other lawyers left? Wouldn't be surprised if Spiro is effectively GC by default. Although I do suspect the audience for this was certain of his other investors, not his glee club.
NelsonMinar 3y ago
I imagine Twitter is finding it hard to hire lawyers since they are notoriously not paying their bills.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  Elon's also suing Twitter's former lawyers (the one that represented them in the purchase lawsuit against Musk) to recover $90 million they were paid. So, not just not paying bills, attempting to claw back money already paid to previous lawyers. Exactly who you want to do business with.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    Wow. This sounds too stupid to be true, but https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/elon-musks-twitter-sues-top-law-firm-wachtell-over-90-million-fee-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/elon-musks-twitter-sues-top-...
anyoneamous 3y ago
[flagged]
- outworlder 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- adamrezich 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    So, there's a practical reason for this, though it's not particularly relevant here. If you say Elon Musk's name _on Twitter_, that tends to summon his insufferable fans (via kibozing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Parry#Growing_fame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Parry#Growing_fame) (this isn't a post-acquisition thing; it's been like this for years), so the wise tweeter uses a nickname. Now, obviously it's not particularly relevant here, and in any case "Elongated Muskrat" is well-known enough that people presumably grep for that _too_.
    - adamrezich 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - Freedom2 3y ago
    [flagged]

80 points by AndrewDucker 3y ago

ksaj 3y ago

It does appear Twitter's legal experts were also fired / laid off when Elon took the reins. When I first read it, I thought some of it sounded really amateur. I've read lots of lawyerese (I used to provide expert testimony in certain types of technical cases), and this did not come across like it was written by a legal expert of any level. Now reading this analysis, there are a lot more bells going off. I personally would disregard it - and if forced to respond, I would require a rewritten letter with an appropriate level of authority in its wording.

berberous 3y ago
The letter was sent by a partner at Quinn Emanuel, a well known and highly regarded litigation firm.
- dogmayor 3y ago
  Well known yes. Highly regarded ehh not so much. Anyways, what matters most is the attorney rather than the firm.
  - ksaj 3y ago
    The letter certainly isn't written in a "highly regardable" way. That's for sure. The vagueness alone is enough to realize it's aimless. I doubt I worked with lawyers at this particular level before, but their letters tended to be bullet proof in their detail and specificity. I would automatically question this one because it doesn't really say very much, yet takes 2 pages to attempt saying something.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  I mean, sure. That partner was Alex Spiro, Musk's long time personal lawyer. I'm sure he's brought in enough money from Musk to earn partner regardless of the quality of his work. I mean, it's clear Musk works with him due to his willingness to charge after whatever nonsense Musk wants.
  - dogmayor 3y ago
    Exactly
jfray2k22 3y ago
The section that Spiro included about robots.txt belies just how amateurish this attempt is. That file has become the effective standard for instructing web scraping utilities, but is nothing more than a strong recommendation and is absolutely not legally binding in any way. It's bizarre that Spiro wouldn't already understand this, but even weirder that it appears he didn't even research the topic or have an associate/junior partner with more applicable tech knowledge give it the once over. Possibly, Spiro and Musk were provided that feedback and purposely ignored it due to their outsized egos. What's most obnoxious though is that Musk fired the employees in question while avoiding paying their agreed severance, and then has the gall to invoke the specter of non-compete agreements. I would hope that Spiro, or his firm, would at least be aware that non-competes are unenforceable in California and many other states. All of this shit is nutty as hell.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

rhatexer 3y ago

I think this letter was sent out as a publicity tactic for the upcoming Musk vs Zuck cage fight.

jbverschoor 3y ago

Elon also didn’t manage to get out of the Twitter deal. Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants. Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. And we’ll, it’s multi-billions at stake, so why not try :)

bandyaboot 3y ago
“Titter”
more_corn 3y ago
To be fair he didn’t get out of his deal to buy Twitter because he presented an absolute ironclad bulletproof offer. He did so to convince the board that they had no choice but to accept. Then when he reconsidered he couldn’t get out. Because… see above.
tssva 3y ago
> Elon is basically a big bully, or rather a big child who screams when he doesn’t get what he wants. > Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. His sense of humor like his other behavior is similar to that of a 5 year old child.
- cyanydeez 3y ago
  He also coddles fascism in transparent greed.
- phatskat 3y ago
  Yeah, parroting memes poorly and saying “I’m rich, biotch” oh stage with Dave Chapelle isn’t exactly funny. He’s worth more than most of humanity combined and that line falls flat - heck he even got booed for it.
phatskat 3y ago
> Makes cool stuff though and has a pretty good sense of humor. I’m gonna need citations on both of these. What has he actually made? He’s been know to take credit for a lot of things, and he could from the point of view of spending the money and maybe hiring some people, but ultimately he doesn’t make or come up with much of anything that I’m aware of. Also his sense of humor is…awful. It does appeal to one particular group largely, and they all have blue check marks because that is a meaningless badge these days.

dogmayor 3y ago

(American lawyer here) Yeah, this letter is as weak as they come. An empty threat that Meta won't sweat and was most likely anticipating from the time they began dev. This reading of the letter is spot on.

meepmorp 3y ago

I hope the response was a single poop emoji

aio2 3y ago
lol

kevincox 3y ago

What is the point of sending such a letter? Just to let them know that you are scared?

appleflaxen 3y ago
SEO, so that Twitter comes up when you search for threads
tqi 3y ago
Probably to generate press coverage. Also to placate certain execs.
- Zigurd 3y ago
  The only "exec" to placate is Linda Yaccarino, who's probably three sheets to the wind at Smuggler's by now.

mthoms 3y ago

The site appears to be down. Read it here. https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidallengreen.com/2023/07/a-close-reading-of-twitters-legal-letter-to-meta-a-guided-tour-of-a-weak-litigation-letter/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230707193011/https://davidalle...

maxclark 3y ago

People seem to forget this is ordinary course of business for big tech. Internal Tech Emails is a goldmine of letters, threats, and lawsuits back and forth.

mthoms 3y ago

This was actually sent by Elon's personal lawyer. Make of that what you will but I get the feeling this letter was composed entirely for Elon's fanboys. How long before Musk claims that he can't pursue the issue because [insert purported flaw in US legal system here]?

gtirloni 3y ago
From politicians to CEOs, we're living in the memeconomy. Nobody cares anymore.
_jal 3y ago
Does Twitter have any other lawyers left? Wouldn't be surprised if Spiro is effectively GC by default. Although I do suspect the audience for this was certain of his other investors, not his glee club.

NelsonMinar 3y ago

I imagine Twitter is finding it hard to hire lawyers since they are notoriously not paying their bills.

meepmorp 3y ago
Elon's also suing Twitter's former lawyers (the one that represented them in the purchase lawsuit against Musk) to recover $90 million they were paid. So, not just not paying bills, attempting to claw back money already paid to previous lawyers. Exactly who you want to do business with.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Wow. This sounds too stupid to be true, but https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/elon-musks-twitter-sues-top-law-firm-wachtell-over-90-million-fee-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/elon-musks-twitter-sues-top-...

anyoneamous 3y ago

[flagged]

outworlder 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
adamrezich 3y ago
[flagged]
- rsynnott 3y ago
  So, there's a practical reason for this, though it's not particularly relevant here. If you say Elon Musk's name _on Twitter_, that tends to summon his insufferable fans (via kibozing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Parry#Growing_fame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Parry#Growing_fame) (this isn't a post-acquisition thing; it's been like this for years), so the wise tweeter uses a nickname. Now, obviously it's not particularly relevant here, and in any case "Elongated Muskrat" is well-known enough that people presumably grep for that _too_.
  - adamrezich 3y ago
    [flagged]
- Freedom2 3y ago
  [flagged]