4 ms·

Another good example of this is the [English] bible. In the original Greek translation, "almah" was translated to 'young women' in most places, except two where

by latch 3y ago

Another good example of this is the [English] bible. In the original Greek translation, "almah" was translated to 'young women' in most places, except two where it's translated to virginity. You also have the Latin influence that turned "fruit" into "apple"

forgotmypw17 3y ago
This is why I'm fascinated with different translations and take the time to read my favorite passages in every translation I come across. The new meaning revealed is awesome. One of my favorite editions is "The Word: The Bible from 26 Translations", which has different translations of each verse printed together. It's a huge book, and I can only imagine how much work went into it. The credits are two pages long.
- madcaptenor 3y ago
  I'm just curious about the physical book there - how do you fit 26 Bible translations in one book?
  - forgotmypw17 3y ago
    I don't have it with me at the moment, but it's small print on large sheets, and 2500 or 3500 pages, IIRC.
- prometheus76 3y ago
  I just found the first English translation of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament which pre-dates the Masoretic Text) translated by Charles Thomson. It's quite lovely. A good one to add to your collection. Volume 1: https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo01thom/page/n5/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo01thom/page/n5/m... Volume 2: https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo02thom/page/n3/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo02thom/page/n3/m... I'll also point you to Brenton's translation of the Septuagint, which is also a good addition if you don't already have it. This particular version has the original Greek and the English translation in parallel: https://archive.org/details/septuagintversio1879bren/page/4/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/septuagintversio1879bren/page/4/...
2-718-281-828 3y ago
that's interesting. any suggestions for books, blogs etc about specifically such aspects of the bible? i read the ot in german standard translation coined by luther and a modern (but conservative) translation of the nt by kammermayer. my disappointing take away was how dull and boring the bible is. i didn't find much inspiration in it. and i am spiritually inclined with an open mind towards christian mysticism. but of course the bible as we know it is a disfigured and violated excerpt of a larger partly secret canon. so to understand it better precisely stuff like apple/fruit or girl/virgin are relevant and also make it more interesting.
- metadaemon 3y ago
  I really like the /r/AcademicBiblical/ community on Reddit for these kinds of things. I'm also much more into the spiritual and mystical aspects of Christianity, which, IMO, were either obfuscated or intentionally removed. Couple this with the wide range of translations and you get a boring result.
  - ecshafer 3y ago
    The orthodox and coptic churches are much more mystical than the catholic church, and much much more than protestant denominations. Reading about the early Irish church is interesting, since it was very influential in the middle ages with many of the most famous saints, and it was a very mystical and ascetic branch of the faith.
- GloomyBoots 3y ago
  I can't say about German bibles, but the Norton Critical Edition KJV is great for literary study of the bible in English. It's hard to beat the KJV in terms of poetic quality (not to mention its massive influence on the development of the language itself), but even simple archaisms like separate second-person singular and plural pronouns preserve meaning lacking in more modern English translations. This edition has copious notes providing deep textual analysis. It's definitely a very slow read. Any recommendations on Christian (or not) mysticism? That's not something I've ever delved into at all.
pravus 3y ago
James Tabor released a translation of Genesis that has me very interested because he states that he stays as true to the original Hebrew meaning as possible and it reads completely differently than everything I've ever known.
lurquer 3y ago
I do not believe you know what you are talking about. What version -- English or otherwise -- translates the Hebrew word for 'fruit' into 'apple'? It's translated generically as "fruit" in all English versions that I know of. Likewise, it's translated as a generic fruit in the Vulgate (Latin - 'fructus') and Septuagint (Greek - 'karpos'). As far as 'almah' is concerned, the word is generally used in the OT to represent a young unmarried woman. It is presumed that such a woman would be a virgin (shocking, I know.) The context of its use in Isaiah 7:14 is that of virginity, the Jews who translated the Hebrew passage into Greek (200 years before Christ) used the Greek term for virgin, and Matthew's Greek quote of the verse in the context of Mary's pregnancy also uses the Greek term for virgin. Quibbling over the word 'almah' is strange in light of the fact that Luke explicitly states Mary had never had sex (see Luke 1:34) and that, while espoused to Joseph, she had yet to do the deed. (Matt 1:18).
mcpackieh 3y ago
Have any translations of the Bible actually called the forbidden fruit an apple? I thought the association with apples was an invention of artists who might have been punning on the Latin words for evil and apple, but I haven't heard of any Bible that actually translates it to apple.
- sorokod 3y ago
  It is literally "the fruit of the forbidden tree" in original Hebrew.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    Yes I know, I'm asking if any translated bible ever called it an apple. I don't think that happened. Artists chose to depict it as an apple, but that isn't an idea given to them by a mistranslated bible.
    - smokyd347 3y ago
      I believe it was Milton who gave us "apple" in Paradise Lost.
    - sorokod 3y ago
      Worth mentioning that apple used to signify any sort of fruit
- adrian_b 3y ago
  I have checked right now the Latin Vulgate, https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_vt_genesis_lt.html https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/... and it uses only the word "fructu", i.e. fruit, presumably translating "carpo" from Greek. There is no other more specific word.

by latch 3y ago

forgotmypw17 3y ago

This is why I'm fascinated with different translations and take the time to read my favorite passages in every translation I come across. The new meaning revealed is awesome. One of my favorite editions is "The Word: The Bible from 26 Translations", which has different translations of each verse printed together. It's a huge book, and I can only imagine how much work went into it. The credits are two pages long.

madcaptenor 3y ago
I'm just curious about the physical book there - how do you fit 26 Bible translations in one book?
- forgotmypw17 3y ago
  I don't have it with me at the moment, but it's small print on large sheets, and 2500 or 3500 pages, IIRC.
prometheus76 3y ago
I just found the first English translation of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament which pre-dates the Masoretic Text) translated by Charles Thomson. It's quite lovely. A good one to add to your collection. Volume 1: https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo01thom/page/n5/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo01thom/page/n5/m... Volume 2: https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo02thom/page/n3/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/oldcovenantcommo02thom/page/n3/m... I'll also point you to Brenton's translation of the Septuagint, which is also a good addition if you don't already have it. This particular version has the original Greek and the English translation in parallel: https://archive.org/details/septuagintversio1879bren/page/4/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/septuagintversio1879bren/page/4/...

2-718-281-828 3y ago

that's interesting. any suggestions for books, blogs etc about specifically such aspects of the bible? i read the ot in german standard translation coined by luther and a modern (but conservative) translation of the nt by kammermayer. my disappointing take away was how dull and boring the bible is. i didn't find much inspiration in it. and i am spiritually inclined with an open mind towards christian mysticism. but of course the bible as we know it is a disfigured and violated excerpt of a larger partly secret canon. so to understand it better precisely stuff like apple/fruit or girl/virgin are relevant and also make it more interesting.

metadaemon 3y ago
I really like the /r/AcademicBiblical/ community on Reddit for these kinds of things. I'm also much more into the spiritual and mystical aspects of Christianity, which, IMO, were either obfuscated or intentionally removed. Couple this with the wide range of translations and you get a boring result.
- ecshafer 3y ago
  The orthodox and coptic churches are much more mystical than the catholic church, and much much more than protestant denominations. Reading about the early Irish church is interesting, since it was very influential in the middle ages with many of the most famous saints, and it was a very mystical and ascetic branch of the faith.
GloomyBoots 3y ago
I can't say about German bibles, but the Norton Critical Edition KJV is great for literary study of the bible in English. It's hard to beat the KJV in terms of poetic quality (not to mention its massive influence on the development of the language itself), but even simple archaisms like separate second-person singular and plural pronouns preserve meaning lacking in more modern English translations. This edition has copious notes providing deep textual analysis. It's definitely a very slow read. Any recommendations on Christian (or not) mysticism? That's not something I've ever delved into at all.

pravus 3y ago

James Tabor released a translation of Genesis that has me very interested because he states that he stays as true to the original Hebrew meaning as possible and it reads completely differently than everything I've ever known.

lurquer 3y ago

I do not believe you know what you are talking about. What version -- English or otherwise -- translates the Hebrew word for 'fruit' into 'apple'? It's translated generically as "fruit" in all English versions that I know of. Likewise, it's translated as a generic fruit in the Vulgate (Latin - 'fructus') and Septuagint (Greek - 'karpos'). As far as 'almah' is concerned, the word is generally used in the OT to represent a young unmarried woman. It is presumed that such a woman would be a virgin (shocking, I know.) The context of its use in Isaiah 7:14 is that of virginity, the Jews who translated the Hebrew passage into Greek (200 years before Christ) used the Greek term for virgin, and Matthew's Greek quote of the verse in the context of Mary's pregnancy also uses the Greek term for virgin. Quibbling over the word 'almah' is strange in light of the fact that Luke explicitly states Mary had never had sex (see Luke 1:34) and that, while espoused to Joseph, she had yet to do the deed. (Matt 1:18).

mcpackieh 3y ago

Have any translations of the Bible actually called the forbidden fruit an apple? I thought the association with apples was an invention of artists who might have been punning on the Latin words for evil and apple, but I haven't heard of any Bible that actually translates it to apple.

sorokod 3y ago
It is literally "the fruit of the forbidden tree" in original Hebrew.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Yes I know, I'm asking if any translated bible ever called it an apple. I don't think that happened. Artists chose to depict it as an apple, but that isn't an idea given to them by a mistranslated bible.
  - smokyd347 3y ago
    I believe it was Milton who gave us "apple" in Paradise Lost.
  - sorokod 3y ago
    Worth mentioning that apple used to signify any sort of fruit
adrian_b 3y ago
I have checked right now the Latin Vulgate, https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_vt_genesis_lt.html https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/... and it uses only the word "fructu", i.e. fruit, presumably translating "carpo" from Greek. There is no other more specific word.