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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nahel_Merzouk A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank. So he wouldn't get away. What kind of "social contract", or whatever one would call it, is that? I mean, being invisible and rightless, but allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents, until someone just murders you and then makes it out you were such a danger to them? I don't know about other Germans, but if I was treated that way, I would burn things down, too. At the least. Show me that you have no problems killing me, and that you wouldn't miss a beat, and I would not just roll over and live out my life making you richer and even bolder in that insolence. The thing is, we aren't treated that way (neither are Swedes or whoever you might have in mind) and most of us leave the whole "don't wait until it's you" mostly to a poem by Niemöller, where it doesn't make any demands of us.

yes_really 3y ago
> I mean, being invisible and rightless, but allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents, until someone just murders you and then makes it out you were such a danger to them? [...] I would burn things down, too. What are you talking about? Literally everything you are complaining about is false. > being invisible They are not invisible. There are riots with extreme violence when one of their criminals is shot by police, even though the cop is facing a murder trial. In contrast, Muslims in France committed multiple attacks against ethnic French people and there were zero riots. If the Muslims in France are invisible, how come a death of one of their criminals causes such indignation to result in a violent riot? But multiple terrorist attacks / targeted assassinations / stabbing / shootings / murders perpetrated by Muslim in France against the ethnic French population don't cause enough indignation to result in a riot? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stab... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing > being rightless Tell me, what rights do ethnic French people have that Muslim French citizens don't? > allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents You must not be familiar with the French welfare state. I guarantee that the Muslim immigrants and their children receive MUCH more from the government than the work they produce. > until someone just murders you And is prosecuted for it! > I would burn things down, too Consider you don't know what is happening in France before you proclaim support for riots and violence.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  Islam isn’t an ethnic group. French Muslims (de souche) exist.
rayiner 3y ago
Society doesn’t break out into riots because of one incident. Merzouk is representative of an immigrant community that, from the perspective of the immigrants, isn’t being afforded sufficient rights and opportunities in France, and from the French perspective, isn’t trying to assimilate and is causing crime and unrest. At the end of the day, the French have no obligation to change their society to accommodate newcomers; nor do the newcomers have any obligation to change their society to make themselves acceptable to the French. The problem is that trying to get these two groups of people to live alongside each other is a failed experiment.
- danShumway 3y ago
  I'm not going to get into a policy debate about what HN will and won't moderate, but this is so completely obviously a pro-segregationist dog-whistle just masked behind immigration instead of race. "The cultures are just too different to mix, that's the root of all of the trouble" should sound instantly familiar to anyone who's ever read a history book. At the end of the day, if this is the debate we all want to have, fine, we can repeat that entire historical debate for the Nth time. But we should be clear what is being debated.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    I’m fascinated by how Americans are completely unable to distinguish between race and culture. It must be the poor American education system everyone talks about. There’s obviously more to “history” than America’s experience with black people. My home country of Bangladesh exists because two different cultural groups didn’t want to share a country, and the separation worked out great. And of course even in the context of black people in America, lots of people are sour on integration. Listen to the podcast “Nice White Parents.” A consistent theme is how white parents want integrated schools, while what black parents want is for their mostly-black neighborhood school to be as good as the white kids’ school. Or read this article by a black New York Times columnist about the joy of leaving New York for Atlanta: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/opinion/georgia-black-political-power.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/opinion/georgia-black-pol.... As an immigrant myself, it sucks to raise your kids in somebody else’s culture. At least in America we have pluralism, where the cultural groups mostly agree to leave each other alone. I’d never want to live in France if it meant raising my kid to be French.
snovymgodym 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty We can link wikipedia articles to each other all day. Somehow ethnic French people managed to contain their anger and not burn down majority immigrant neighborhoods after that happened. The cop who shot Merzouk was also arrested shortly afterwards and will be facing trial, it's not like the act was ignored or swept under the rug.
- dwags 3y ago
  enormous reach here
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- jedimind 3y ago
  Getting oppressed and murdered by the police on a systemic basis is somewhat different compared to some individual's terrible reaction to a provocation. it's a sick system vs a sick individual, thus it's quite the reach to make that comparison. Furthermore, your argument fails on the premise that it assumes a symmetry of power between these groups, which is not the case. anyone who doesn't know much about france's history with immigrants should watch La Haine(1995)[0], it's a movie but it gives a good glimpse into what's going on. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113247 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113247
  - snovymgodym 3y ago
    > getting oppressed and murdered by the police on a systemic basis I don't think there's any real evidence that people of immigrant background get "murdered by the police on a systemic basis" in France. If you have well sourced statistics on this, feel free to post, but for now it just sounds to me like a parroted talking point. > is completely different compared to some individual's terrible reaction to a provocation. it's a sick system vs a sick individual, thus it's quite the reach to make that comparison. Somehow, when the police engage in misconduct that's a systemic problem. But all of the following are just "isolated incidents" attributable to "sick individuals", no systemic issues with their culture or belief system at all right? No reason at all for ethnic French people to be upset or fed up? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stab... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing > your argument fails on the premise that it assumes a symmetry of power between these groups, which is not the case. Seems like you can never have a conversation about certain groups where they're afforded any agency. Seems like you and people like you have this belief system where people of an immigrant background can't be held accountable for anything. Basically it seems like if immigrants (and their descendants) come to a country and they're poor, don't learn the national language, don't respect the existing culture and political order, or engage in criminality, there's always a group of people like you who say the blame lies with the host country or the majority demographic population. > should watch La Haine(1995)[0], it's a movie but it gives a good glimpse into what's going on. I don't think watching a fictional film from nearly 30 years ago is going to be particularly valuable for improving my understanding of the current situation in France.
alienicecream 3y ago
The 2016 Nice truck attack killed 86 people and the law that police could shoot at drivers endangering passersby was put it to address that. It's an unfortunate incident, but when you import a lot of people who are now potential terrorists you have to set up a police state to prevent terrorism. Should the police just ignore these cases given what happened? How would you feel if your child or family member was killed by that truck and how come there were no riots by the native population to protest immigration policy that was bringing terrorists into the country?
- hirako2000 3y ago
  It wasn't an unfortunate incident. It was the result of decades of social issues brushed outside by politicians, from the left, and from the right, both and everything in between. And it isn't a good example given the driver wasn't an "imported terrorist" Not an invalid point that Europe has been importing some terrorists since libya, syria and a few other countries fell into chaos. Which countries funded, promoted and held arms and military interventions that ultimately caused such chaos btw? To your point there could have have been riots, yes, why not. What was the police doing, too busy writing traffic tickets instead of working on preventing more serious threats? What were public servants doing for the city of Nice and its social total disymetry, just take a good look at the wealth on the rivera yet masses are on minimum wages asked to pay 1000 euro for a tiny apartment. There can't be any acceptable reason to run over anyone, but 86 people in their graves isn't a reason to implement a law which down the road would lead to even more murders which of course had a gooe chande to trigger what we've seen this last week.
  - alienicecream 3y ago
    There's a simpler, more immediate solution: stop importing foreigners that hold to an honor culture and have a low propensity for education. It's not working, so stop making it worse.
    - hirako2000 3y ago
      Sure, zero immigration, nationwide surveillance just in case, a level to firewall all social media platforms, and total ban on fps. I prefer we just block candy crush personally, if it has any effect on instinctive violence and self control among youngsters at least it won't be a negative sum move.
naasking 3y ago
> What kind of "social contract", or whatever one would call it, is that? I mean, being invisible and rightless, but allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents I'm confused. This seems to be based on a narrative that Nahel was an immigrant, but I read that he was born and raised in France and was a french citizen. So hardly "invisible and rightless". Also, the officer who shot him was arrested and is being charged. Isn't this exactly what you would expect to happen even in a perfectly just society?
- jedimind 3y ago
  If that were the case, then why is it that the most of the propaganda against him or individuals of similar background involves the notion of "he wasn't a 'real' french person" and demonizing everything about them that can be remotely interpreted as "not french"?
  - naasking 3y ago
    I haven't followed this enough to objectively assess how this is being portrayed, but consider whether "most" of the propaganda you've been seeing is not a representative sample, but has been tailored to engage you.
    - jedimind 3y ago
      I'm talking about tweets with 20k+ likes which contain outright lies and demonization of immigrants., so it's not "tailored" made to engage me, they are typical right-wing talking points.
      - naasking 3y ago
        Twitter is not real life.
LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
[flagged]
IMTDb 3y ago
> A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank Make sure to give the full story, please. [The victim] was "known to the police, particularly for resisting arrest", and had been charged with resisting the previous weekend and five times since 2021. His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs. He was driving a Mercedes-Benz A Class AMG with a Polish license plate at high speed in a bus lane (a car he did not own). When asked to stop at a red light; he started moving and ran the red light. The following chase endangered at least two people and he was forced to stop by traffic. The cops pointed their gun at him and approached. The shooting happened when he refused to stop ignition and instead started to re-accelerate; trying to go for round #2. Just after the shooting, the two passengers tried to flee the scene (one was arrested; the other succeeded in escaping). The cop who shot immediately provided first aid and called for medical attention. The victim did not survive. The social contract in this context is "do not resist arrest; and if you are stopped by the police after a car chase and they are pointing guns at you; do not try to flee a second time". It's not about being "rightless"; it's about not having 15 recorded incidents in your judicial file at the age of 17 and then renting cars to endanger other human beings and then trying to flee when there is a gun pointed at you. Did he deserve do die ? No. Did he do the bare minimum to avoid getting shot ? Also no. This situation is the consequence of 100 bad decision; the cop took 1 of those; he took the other 99.
- cm2187 3y ago
  And in a country where the legal age for driving is 18.
- _proofs 3y ago
  "comply or else -- no matter what." i hate that i see these kinds of authoritarian, victim-blaming takes when it comes to the implicit "establishing law and order" -- you did not deserve to die, but allow me to imply you deserved to die (because of your transgressions). the cognitive dissonance is so real this almost reads like satire.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
> A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank. He was not unarmed, he was using a car as weapon.
causi 3y ago
A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank. So he wouldn't get away. Putting aside whether Nahel was a threat to pedestrians, the officer in question was apprehended and charged. That's the system working.
- treis 3y ago
  That's the system scape goating some poor sap without addressing underlying issues.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  > The police have maintained that the shooting was an act of self-defense, as they argue that Merzouk was driving towards the officer. However, since the video was released, this claim has faced significant criticism. So if this video didn't exist, which the police didn't make and might not have released if they did, what then? To say the system is working is a horrible thing to say in light of that. How many homicides happened in a similar way with no video by third parties? We both know that we both don't know, by definition. And it's a privilege to not be held awake by that question, to not live with that fear in the back of your head 24/7. If not for yourself, then maybe for your wayward son, who you so hope will grow out of it. Besides, and this is like an insulting cherry on this turd dressed up as cake people should be happy be get to eat: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230704-fundraiser-for-officer-who-shot-nahel-outstrips-donations-to-victim-s-family https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230704-fundraiser-for-o...
  - causi 3y ago
    And it's a privilege to not be held awake by that question, to not live with that fear in the back of your head 24/7. If fear of the tiny number of police shootings in France is constantly in the back of your head, either you are in a state of constant paralyzing fright or your fears have no relation to your risks. More people are killed by lightning in France than are shot by police.
vGPU 3y ago
> Police attempted to pull him over at a red light using sirens and lights, the prosecutor added, but Nahel disobeyed and committed several traffic offences, endangering the lives of a pedestrian and a cyclist. He’s not unarmed. He’s driving a 4,000lb chunk of metal that could kill more people in a few seconds than any gun short of a fully automatic belt fed. Eugen Grigore killed twice as many people as the columbine shooter did in far less time. So we have a person who is in control of a dangerous weapon, who has already demonstrated his willingness to put pedestrians in danger, and who already had 15 different criminal charges. He was literally charged with resisting arrest a week prior. He’s also appeared in videos for bangers with lyrics like these: “While I rob them, and no one comes to tell me A-B-C… Me, I'm only good at making my weapon speak” Ultimately, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of FAFO to me. Here’s the question: where was this outrage when 12 year old Lola Daviet was found raped, strangled, cut up, and stuffed in a suitcase by another Algerian? I didn’t see riots for her, and those who dared protest her rape, murder, and dismemberment were labeled fascists by the media. So how is it that raping and murdering an actual child, who wasn’t even old enough to go to sleepovers with her friends by herself - how is that OK, but this isn’t?
- imtringued 3y ago
  The cop that killed Nahel committed the folly of doing so on camera.
  - poilk 3y ago
    [flagged]
lofaszvanitt 3y ago
So many problems around cops shooting people and they die. I'm wondering HOW COME noone researched this to create something that can either penetrate glass or not so hard surfaces, and when comes in contact with the skin paralyzes the offender (like the taser, but this can go through things) or simple paralyzes everyone in a radius of a few meters. Then when the thing settles you go in, get the paralyzed human/animal/whatever, put it in a cage, then wait for it to de-paralyze. Noone gets hurt, plus the idiot who cannot follow commands won't be killed. Would be so easy.
ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
>According to his family's lawyers, Merzouk did not have a criminal record,[19] but he was "known to the police, particularly for resisting arrest", and had been charged with resisting the previous weekend[20] and five times since 2021. His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs. In no way am I saying he deserved to be shot, please understand that. But 15 incidents with the cops? At 17? Honestly France has to take a look at their punishment scale surely? I'm assuming him being under 18 is what led to it reaching 15 incidents without serious jail time. But how on Earth does false plates, no insurance, and selling drugs not earn you at least some jail time?

yes_really 3y ago

> I mean, being invisible and rightless, but allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents, until someone just murders you and then makes it out you were such a danger to them? [...] I would burn things down, too. What are you talking about? Literally everything you are complaining about is false. > being invisible They are not invisible. There are riots with extreme violence when one of their criminals is shot by police, even though the cop is facing a murder trial. In contrast, Muslims in France committed multiple attacks against ethnic French people and there were zero riots. If the Muslims in France are invisible, how come a death of one of their criminals causes such indignation to result in a violent riot? But multiple terrorist attacks / targeted assassinations / stabbing / shootings / murders perpetrated by Muslim in France against the ethnic French population don't cause enough indignation to result in a riot? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stab... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing > being rightless Tell me, what rights do ethnic French people have that Muslim French citizens don't? > allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents You must not be familiar with the French welfare state. I guarantee that the Muslim immigrants and their children receive MUCH more from the government than the work they produce. > until someone just murders you And is prosecuted for it! > I would burn things down, too Consider you don't know what is happening in France before you proclaim support for riots and violence.

selimthegrim 3y ago
Islam isn’t an ethnic group. French Muslims (de souche) exist.

rayiner 3y ago

Society doesn’t break out into riots because of one incident. Merzouk is representative of an immigrant community that, from the perspective of the immigrants, isn’t being afforded sufficient rights and opportunities in France, and from the French perspective, isn’t trying to assimilate and is causing crime and unrest. At the end of the day, the French have no obligation to change their society to accommodate newcomers; nor do the newcomers have any obligation to change their society to make themselves acceptable to the French. The problem is that trying to get these two groups of people to live alongside each other is a failed experiment.

danShumway 3y ago
I'm not going to get into a policy debate about what HN will and won't moderate, but this is so completely obviously a pro-segregationist dog-whistle just masked behind immigration instead of race. "The cultures are just too different to mix, that's the root of all of the trouble" should sound instantly familiar to anyone who's ever read a history book. At the end of the day, if this is the debate we all want to have, fine, we can repeat that entire historical debate for the Nth time. But we should be clear what is being debated.
- rayiner 3y ago
  I’m fascinated by how Americans are completely unable to distinguish between race and culture. It must be the poor American education system everyone talks about. There’s obviously more to “history” than America’s experience with black people. My home country of Bangladesh exists because two different cultural groups didn’t want to share a country, and the separation worked out great. And of course even in the context of black people in America, lots of people are sour on integration. Listen to the podcast “Nice White Parents.” A consistent theme is how white parents want integrated schools, while what black parents want is for their mostly-black neighborhood school to be as good as the white kids’ school. Or read this article by a black New York Times columnist about the joy of leaving New York for Atlanta: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/opinion/georgia-black-political-power.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/opinion/georgia-black-pol.... As an immigrant myself, it sucks to raise your kids in somebody else’s culture. At least in America we have pluralism, where the cultural groups mostly agree to leave each other alone. I’d never want to live in France if it meant raising my kid to be French.

snovymgodym 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty We can link wikipedia articles to each other all day. Somehow ethnic French people managed to contain their anger and not burn down majority immigrant neighborhoods after that happened. The cop who shot Merzouk was also arrested shortly afterwards and will be facing trial, it's not like the act was ignored or swept under the rug.

dwags 3y ago
enormous reach here
deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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jedimind 3y ago
Getting oppressed and murdered by the police on a systemic basis is somewhat different compared to some individual's terrible reaction to a provocation. it's a sick system vs a sick individual, thus it's quite the reach to make that comparison. Furthermore, your argument fails on the premise that it assumes a symmetry of power between these groups, which is not the case. anyone who doesn't know much about france's history with immigrants should watch La Haine(1995)[0], it's a movie but it gives a good glimpse into what's going on. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113247 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113247
- snovymgodym 3y ago
  > getting oppressed and murdered by the police on a systemic basis I don't think there's any real evidence that people of immigrant background get "murdered by the police on a systemic basis" in France. If you have well sourced statistics on this, feel free to post, but for now it just sounds to me like a parroted talking point. > is completely different compared to some individual's terrible reaction to a provocation. it's a sick system vs a sick individual, thus it's quite the reach to make that comparison. Somehow, when the police engage in misconduct that's a systemic problem. But all of the following are just "isolated incidents" attributable to "sick individuals", no systemic issues with their culture or belief system at all right? No reason at all for ethnic French people to be upset or fed up? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Marseille_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Paris_knife_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_police_headquarters_stab... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nice_stabbing > your argument fails on the premise that it assumes a symmetry of power between these groups, which is not the case. Seems like you can never have a conversation about certain groups where they're afforded any agency. Seems like you and people like you have this belief system where people of an immigrant background can't be held accountable for anything. Basically it seems like if immigrants (and their descendants) come to a country and they're poor, don't learn the national language, don't respect the existing culture and political order, or engage in criminality, there's always a group of people like you who say the blame lies with the host country or the majority demographic population. > should watch La Haine(1995)[0], it's a movie but it gives a good glimpse into what's going on. I don't think watching a fictional film from nearly 30 years ago is going to be particularly valuable for improving my understanding of the current situation in France.

alienicecream 3y ago

The 2016 Nice truck attack killed 86 people and the law that police could shoot at drivers endangering passersby was put it to address that. It's an unfortunate incident, but when you import a lot of people who are now potential terrorists you have to set up a police state to prevent terrorism. Should the police just ignore these cases given what happened? How would you feel if your child or family member was killed by that truck and how come there were no riots by the native population to protest immigration policy that was bringing terrorists into the country?

hirako2000 3y ago
It wasn't an unfortunate incident. It was the result of decades of social issues brushed outside by politicians, from the left, and from the right, both and everything in between. And it isn't a good example given the driver wasn't an "imported terrorist" Not an invalid point that Europe has been importing some terrorists since libya, syria and a few other countries fell into chaos. Which countries funded, promoted and held arms and military interventions that ultimately caused such chaos btw? To your point there could have have been riots, yes, why not. What was the police doing, too busy writing traffic tickets instead of working on preventing more serious threats? What were public servants doing for the city of Nice and its social total disymetry, just take a good look at the wealth on the rivera yet masses are on minimum wages asked to pay 1000 euro for a tiny apartment. There can't be any acceptable reason to run over anyone, but 86 people in their graves isn't a reason to implement a law which down the road would lead to even more murders which of course had a gooe chande to trigger what we've seen this last week.
- alienicecream 3y ago
  There's a simpler, more immediate solution: stop importing foreigners that hold to an honor culture and have a low propensity for education. It's not working, so stop making it worse.
  - hirako2000 3y ago
    Sure, zero immigration, nationwide surveillance just in case, a level to firewall all social media platforms, and total ban on fps. I prefer we just block candy crush personally, if it has any effect on instinctive violence and self control among youngsters at least it won't be a negative sum move.

naasking 3y ago

> What kind of "social contract", or whatever one would call it, is that? I mean, being invisible and rightless, but allowed to work and get a tiny fraction of the value your work represents I'm confused. This seems to be based on a narrative that Nahel was an immigrant, but I read that he was born and raised in France and was a french citizen. So hardly "invisible and rightless". Also, the officer who shot him was arrested and is being charged. Isn't this exactly what you would expect to happen even in a perfectly just society?

jedimind 3y ago
If that were the case, then why is it that the most of the propaganda against him or individuals of similar background involves the notion of "he wasn't a 'real' french person" and demonizing everything about them that can be remotely interpreted as "not french"?
- naasking 3y ago
  I haven't followed this enough to objectively assess how this is being portrayed, but consider whether "most" of the propaganda you've been seeing is not a representative sample, but has been tailored to engage you.
  - jedimind 3y ago
    I'm talking about tweets with 20k+ likes which contain outright lies and demonization of immigrants., so it's not "tailored" made to engage me, they are typical right-wing talking points.
    - naasking 3y ago
      Twitter is not real life.

LawTalkingGuy 3y ago

[flagged]

IMTDb 3y ago

> A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank Make sure to give the full story, please. [The victim] was "known to the police, particularly for resisting arrest", and had been charged with resisting the previous weekend and five times since 2021. His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs. He was driving a Mercedes-Benz A Class AMG with a Polish license plate at high speed in a bus lane (a car he did not own). When asked to stop at a red light; he started moving and ran the red light. The following chase endangered at least two people and he was forced to stop by traffic. The cops pointed their gun at him and approached. The shooting happened when he refused to stop ignition and instead started to re-accelerate; trying to go for round #2. Just after the shooting, the two passengers tried to flee the scene (one was arrested; the other succeeded in escaping). The cop who shot immediately provided first aid and called for medical attention. The victim did not survive. The social contract in this context is "do not resist arrest; and if you are stopped by the police after a car chase and they are pointing guns at you; do not try to flee a second time". It's not about being "rightless"; it's about not having 15 recorded incidents in your judicial file at the age of 17 and then renting cars to endanger other human beings and then trying to flee when there is a gun pointed at you. Did he deserve do die ? No. Did he do the bare minimum to avoid getting shot ? Also no. This situation is the consequence of 100 bad decision; the cop took 1 of those; he took the other 99.

cm2187 3y ago
And in a country where the legal age for driving is 18.
_proofs 3y ago
"comply or else -- no matter what." i hate that i see these kinds of authoritarian, victim-blaming takes when it comes to the implicit "establishing law and order" -- you did not deserve to die, but allow me to imply you deserved to die (because of your transgressions). the cognitive dissonance is so real this almost reads like satire.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago

> A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank. He was not unarmed, he was using a car as weapon.

causi 3y ago

A cop shot an unarmed teenager in the face point blank. So he wouldn't get away. Putting aside whether Nahel was a threat to pedestrians, the officer in question was apprehended and charged. That's the system working.

treis 3y ago
That's the system scape goating some poor sap without addressing underlying issues.
johnnyworker 3y ago
> The police have maintained that the shooting was an act of self-defense, as they argue that Merzouk was driving towards the officer. However, since the video was released, this claim has faced significant criticism. So if this video didn't exist, which the police didn't make and might not have released if they did, what then? To say the system is working is a horrible thing to say in light of that. How many homicides happened in a similar way with no video by third parties? We both know that we both don't know, by definition. And it's a privilege to not be held awake by that question, to not live with that fear in the back of your head 24/7. If not for yourself, then maybe for your wayward son, who you so hope will grow out of it. Besides, and this is like an insulting cherry on this turd dressed up as cake people should be happy be get to eat: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230704-fundraiser-for-officer-who-shot-nahel-outstrips-donations-to-victim-s-family https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230704-fundraiser-for-o...
- causi 3y ago
  And it's a privilege to not be held awake by that question, to not live with that fear in the back of your head 24/7. If fear of the tiny number of police shootings in France is constantly in the back of your head, either you are in a state of constant paralyzing fright or your fears have no relation to your risks. More people are killed by lightning in France than are shot by police.

vGPU 3y ago

> Police attempted to pull him over at a red light using sirens and lights, the prosecutor added, but Nahel disobeyed and committed several traffic offences, endangering the lives of a pedestrian and a cyclist. He’s not unarmed. He’s driving a 4,000lb chunk of metal that could kill more people in a few seconds than any gun short of a fully automatic belt fed. Eugen Grigore killed twice as many people as the columbine shooter did in far less time. So we have a person who is in control of a dangerous weapon, who has already demonstrated his willingness to put pedestrians in danger, and who already had 15 different criminal charges. He was literally charged with resisting arrest a week prior. He’s also appeared in videos for bangers with lyrics like these: “While I rob them, and no one comes to tell me A-B-C… Me, I'm only good at making my weapon speak” Ultimately, this seems like a pretty clear cut case of FAFO to me. Here’s the question: where was this outrage when 12 year old Lola Daviet was found raped, strangled, cut up, and stuffed in a suitcase by another Algerian? I didn’t see riots for her, and those who dared protest her rape, murder, and dismemberment were labeled fascists by the media. So how is it that raping and murdering an actual child, who wasn’t even old enough to go to sleepovers with her friends by herself - how is that OK, but this isn’t?

imtringued 3y ago
The cop that killed Nahel committed the folly of doing so on camera.
- poilk 3y ago
  [flagged]

lofaszvanitt 3y ago

So many problems around cops shooting people and they die. I'm wondering HOW COME noone researched this to create something that can either penetrate glass or not so hard surfaces, and when comes in contact with the skin paralyzes the offender (like the taser, but this can go through things) or simple paralyzes everyone in a radius of a few meters. Then when the thing settles you go in, get the paralyzed human/animal/whatever, put it in a cage, then wait for it to de-paralyze. Noone gets hurt, plus the idiot who cannot follow commands won't be killed. Would be so easy.

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago

>According to his family's lawyers, Merzouk did not have a criminal record,[19] but he was "known to the police, particularly for resisting arrest", and had been charged with resisting the previous weekend[20] and five times since 2021. His judicial file included 15 recorded incidents, including use of false license plates, driving without insurance, and for the sale and consumption of drugs. In no way am I saying he deserved to be shot, please understand that. But 15 incidents with the cops? At 17? Honestly France has to take a look at their punishment scale surely? I'm assuming him being under 18 is what led to it reaching 15 incidents without serious jail time. But how on Earth does false plates, no insurance, and selling drugs not earn you at least some jail time?