9 ms·

Dude, it's a laptop you want, not an iPad

250 points by sendos 15y ago

buster 15y ago
Well.. amazing how long it took to realize for him.. There are certainly usecases for a tablet and for a laptop, it's not like you have to try hard to use a shiny new gadget for something it is not good at..
badboy 15y ago
When I started to study last year in October I thought about getting a tablet for day-to-day use. But then I realized everything and more can be done with a small Laptop aswell and reading papers is even better on a Kindle than on a tablet anyway. I am happy with my choice, there's such no usecase for a tablet where my laptop/smartphone/kindle can't do a better job overall.
nextparadigms 15y ago
You can have both with an Asus Transformer - integrated keyboard that turns it into a laptop and with 15-18h battery life, and tablet for when you need it on the couch/whatever. Why compromise? Those accessories for the iPad are not integrated at all, and they look rather silly.
- twiceaday 15y ago
  Asus Transformer - Android - 10" screen at 1280x800 - 2.9 pounds (with the dock) - 16GB HD + 1GB ram - 15hr battery 11" Air - OSX - 11.6" screen at 1344x756 - 2.3 pounds - 64GB HD + 2GB ram - 5hr battery The only thing that Transformer has going for it is the battery life, everything else is a compromise.
  - kzrdude 15y ago
    Air also has a 1.6 GHz Core i5 processor.
  - liquidsnake 15y ago
    Well, the fact that the Air can't be used as a tablet and does not have a touchscreen can be considered a compromise as well :).
    - CPlatypus 15y ago
      Exactly. For the comparison to be valid (I'm typing this on a Transformer BTW) you'd have to compare to the Air plus an iPad. You'd also have to compare prices, and there the Air loses badly even without including the iPad.
      - twiceaday 15y ago
        I think the point of contention is the necessity of tablets. As ultrabooks get lighter and more power efficient they muscle their way into the 3rd device slot that tablets are meat to fill, all the while holding on to the 2nd and even 1st device slots.
        CPlatypus 15y ago
        I don't think that really works, though. It certainly doesn't for me. Much of the time, I like the lighter, smaller tablet form factor (even compared to the several netbooks I've owned). I definitely like being able to flip between horizontal and vertical screen aspects on a whim. Other times, I really need to have a keyboard, but I do have to increase weight and bulk for that. Therefore, my ideal would be a single device that does both without having to deal with syncing data between two devices. An "ultrabook" cannot do that, by definition; if it could, it would be a tablet with a dock. It's therefore not true that an ultrabook can fulfill the third-device role. Its far more likely that tablets will evolve to become adequate second (i.e. near-desktop) machines while retaining their third-machine attributes, but it's flatly impossible for ultrabooks to become adequate third machines. For many people it's not the tablet but the monolithic laptop that is likely to become superfluous in a two-machine instead of three-machine world.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
  - hollerith 15y ago
    I have never used a 11" Air, but they get quite warm; don't they? In contrast, the iPad 2 has never in my experience got even noticeably warmer than its surroundings, and I tend to believe that the Transformer line will also have that (very welcome, IMO) property.
    - twiceaday 15y ago
      Only Flash and StarCraft II heat up my Air, otherwise the fan stays off and it's completely cool and quiet.
    - randallsquared 15y ago
      If you're playing an FPS or running a coupla VMs, it gets warm, but not too warm to sit on your leg.
  - mgcross 15y ago
    MBA 11" is actually 1366x768, but I'd prefer the 16:10 screen of the Asus over the 16:9 MBA. Also, unless the panel has changed, the Transformer has a beautiful IPS screen. The colors and viewing angle on my MBA suck compared to an iPad or Transformer.
  - Mythbusters 15y ago
    How about price?
  - vacri 15y ago
    If 'bigger screen' rather than 'desired screen' is the required spec, then surely a 17" laptop handily beats out the MBA? It'll have a bigger hard drive, and more RAM as well.
jfruh 15y ago
"Ideally, what I would like (and I think most people would like) is something of the form factor of a MacBook Air (thin and light), that has a detachable touch-screen that can run apps written for iOS or Android, and when the screen is connected to the main body, acts like a fully-functioning laptop." What's the difference in practice between "a laptop with a detachable screen" and "a tablet that fits into a case that holds up the screen and provides a keyboard"? In terms of form factor, those two strike me as identical. Of course, if iOS doesn't do it for you in the laptop form factor, then it doesn't do it for you, but that's more a software than a hardware problem (and I'm willing to bet is a software problem not everybody has).
- twiceaday 15y ago
  That's the point. A laptop with a detachable screen implies a full OS with the ability to run in mobile mode. A dockable tablet implies only a mobile OS. The former can be your only pc while the latter is purely supplemental.
  - geon 15y ago
    There is absolutely no reason why a dockable mobile device would not deliver a full desktop experience. Have you seen the Android/Ubuntu demo? They ran Ubuntu on a cellphone in a dock. Very impressive.
    - Mythbusters 15y ago
      Windows 8 has a similar experience built in whith the advantage that you have a full OS with you at all times if you need it.
- prophetjohn 15y ago
  The difference is that an iPad docked to a keyboard isn't a fully functioning laptop. It seems like the author is looking for (for instance) a device that runs OS X, with all the power of a MBA when in laptop mode, but once you detach the screen runs iOS and has limited functionality. So maybe the author really just has a problem with the limited capabilities of iOS and the performance difference between an iPad and a MBP.
shahoo 15y ago
Ultrabooks are rushing in to fill this need. I just bought one and it has been everything I hoped.
- pgrote 15y ago
  Which one did you get and have there been any surprises with it?
l1ghtm4n 15y ago
I only purchased an iPad after realizing one specific use case. Managing my new baby. General purpose computing or browsing is left to my laptop. Things specific to baby like FaceTime/skype, pandora music, one-handed browsing while holding the baby, work perfectly. But it never leaves this environment. Laptop for everything else.
- pgrote 15y ago
  Here, here. Kids are a great market for iPads. When we bought our first I thought it would be nothing more than a toy, but to see the interaction our 2 and now 3 year old has with it is amazing. The gesture interface is an excellent method for kids to learn and feel comfortable.
jjp9999 15y ago
I was going to get an iPad a while back. Basically, unless you're doing basic Web browsing or just playing games, you need a keyboard to do any real work on a tablet. Also, they're light, but still not much different than a MacBook Air - and they're not much cheaper. Tablets still just seem like a novelty to me - toys for gaming and watching movies. If you want a serious tablet though, check out the Modbooks. They're regular Mac notebooks hacked to use touchscreens. They're good if you do art on your notebook, since you can basically draw on the screen, you get all the features of a full-fledged notebook, and they were around long before the iPad.
cwe 15y ago
This is Windows 8's primary use case. We'll soon see how many people agree with OP
- vyrotek 15y ago
  This makes a lot of sense. I played around with Windows 8 this week and thought this hybrid felt a bit awkward on my desktop pc. But installed on a laptop which converts to a tablet would be very practical and useful.
recoiledsnake 15y ago
>"Ideally, what I would like (and I think most people would like) is something of the form factor of a MacBook Air (thin and light), that has a detachable touch-screen that can run apps written for iOS or Android, and when the screen is connected to the main body, acts like a fully-functioning laptop." >I think some devices like this are beginning to appear, but so far none of them are compelling. It might take Apple to show them how it's done, again. Really? Not even a mention of Windows 8, if it is just to say why it doesn't suit his needs? Has the author taken a look at upcoming Windows 8 devices like the Samsung Slate ? Or is the discussion artificially limited to Apple devices when Apple has specially noted that they don't envision a fusion device/OS (atleast in the short-medium term) because it won't be a good consumer experience. The tradeoff of the Slate is lower battery life and things like a fan, but it has a Core i5 and can run all Windows apps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1ZbY03nTQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1ZbY03nTQ Or check out the IdeaPad Yoga, a 13" Macbook-Air like laptop that can double as a Windows 8 tablet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHKFYngqOM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHKFYngqOM http://cnettv.cnet.com/hands-lenovo-ideapad-yoga/9742-1_53-50118072.html http://cnettv.cnet.com/hands-lenovo-ideapad-yoga/9742-1_53-5... There will be Windows 8 ARM tablets that will be fanless and have great battery life, but they can run only Metro apps and touch optimized versions of Office. These are just the tip of the iceberg and there will be lots of Transformer like devices in the coming months running Windows 8. These may or may not fit the author's needs, but excluding them from the discussion doesn't seem like a good move to me.
- prophetjohn 15y ago
  Why is this being downvoted? Because it allows for the possibility that a Microsoft product could satisfy the needs of someone when an Apple product doesn't? If you disagree, say why. A downvote isn't a substitute for substantiating your opinion.
  - Mythbusters 15y ago
    Its hacker news. What do you expect? Not many Windows users here.
weissguy 15y ago
Before I moved internationally for school, I was concerned I would need a secondary computing device that would have a lot of functionality, a lot of portability, and be cheap enough not to worry about if it, say, dropped out of my backpack while riding my bike across town. I looked at all kinds of tablets, but then I realized I could get more functionality, roughly equal portability and battery life, for a much cheaper price. My ASUS netbook was the best money I've ever spent. For $250, I got: -A 10.1 inch screen -9-10 honest hours of battery life if you're conservative -A 1.5GHz dual core processor fast enough to watch 360p videos while running Visual Studio and Eclipse -2GB of DDR3 RAM -A 250GB HD -3 USB 2.0 ports -Ability to dual boot Win7 Pro and Linux -A keyboard -A webcam -All in a device that weighs less than 3 pounds and fits easily in any small bag. It blows my mind that people would want to spend $300+ on a device with slightly more portability and far, far less functionality.
- hollerith 15y ago
  Although I am not trying to argue against your overall position, my experience with a Core-Duo Macbook and an iPad 2 leads me to the firm conclusion that an iPad is going to feel a lot faster than the above set-up until you add an SDD.
  - weissguy 15y ago
    I've used an iPad before and I am totally willing to admit that it is a sexy device. It felt fast and was able to do a lot of useful things. What really convinced me to buy my netbook was the ability to not worry about my computing device. Carrying around a $500 thin piece of hardware that is constantly in danger of breaking in half or getting stolen in an unfamiliar European city was just not appealing to me.
    - hollerith 15y ago
      I've used an iPad 2 extensively and (like most people reading this) I've owned a clamshell-format device, and although I do not hold myself out as an expert on such things, I would have guessed that the iPad is the more durable device because there are fewer moving parts and no moving parts as complex or as prone to getting gummed up as the clamshell's hinge or a trackpad. Do not get me wrong: I am perfectly willing to believe that a netbook is better for you than a tablet; I am just finding it a little hard to believe that durability concerns tip the balance in favor of the netbook. P.S. The iPad's back and sides are machined from a single piece of aluminum; do iPad's really break in half?
nchuhoai 15y ago
People need to stop telling other people what they want.
qrybam 15y ago
While an ASUS Transformer Prime is still limited in certain ways like the iPad, surely that's already a step in the right direction (as far as this post is concerned)?
WiseWeasel 15y ago
I've got to say this article was fairly disappointing. So the author finds more value in a laptop than an iPad; that means that everyone else must also arrive at the same conclusion? That's a load of crap. Different people have different needs, and for some, an iPad may satisfy them better. For me, I've realized that a laptop is sub-optimal, and a desktop and soon an iPad 3 makes much more sense. You see, I only do productivity work for extended periods in a single location. I don't need to haul a computer back and forth to work, and I don't need to do extended work out of coffee shops or hotel rooms. A proper ergonomic desktop workstation is therefore the most valuable and economical solution for productivity in my case. For mobile use, I just want something to browse the web on the couch or in bed, control my entertainment center, maybe play the occasional game or watch the occasional movie or TV show, respond to an email once in a while, and have the batteries last all day doing it. I seriously couldn't care less about a built-in keyboard, and laptop keyboards are all terrible for productivity in any case. And though the Author thinks the iPad is a, "limited device... in terms of what websites [he] can watch", I think I've had problems with a website all of one time, when it rendered some form fields above a submit button and I couldn't complete a purchase on a small e-commerce site. I've got a MacBook Pro that is currently being so under-used, that I will hardly notice its absence after I replace it with the upcoming iPad. This whole piece seems like a useless rant to me, certainly not up to my lofty standards for HN-worthiness.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  Don't take this the wrong way, but a laptop can still suit your needs just like a desktop. For various reasons, I have an 27" iMac and a 15" MBP, and from work, a MBA, full loaded, with a 27" Monitor. Obviously, an iPad 2 as well. So, I've used numerous configurations. Having the portability of a laptop with the "ergonomics of a desktop". I use a normal keyboard and mouse. While you would work from the one on the laptop, it wouldn't make much sense, imo. Not trying to say you are wrong, just something to consider. As someone who very much enjoys desktops, the laptop + external monitor setup is quite enjoyable.
  - WiseWeasel 15y ago
    The main advantages of a desktop over a laptop for me are that the desktop has far more storage and PCI expandability, is suitable for gaming, and since I don't need to work in multiple locations, I see no benefit in being able to disconnect my CPU and use it elsewhere. This frees up precious desktop surface space as the CPU is under the desk, and I don't have to deal with an extra monitor at a weird height and uselessly small size in relation to my main screen, or closing the clamshell to sleep, but then waking it up with external inputs and using it with the lid closed, which is very harmful due to improper ventilation, and I don't want to have to disconnect a bunch of cables when I want to go mobile, or reconnect them each time I want to use my workstation. There are a million small inconveniences to using a laptop as a component to a workstation, to the point that I'd simply rather not deal with it. Plus, desktops are cheaper; I can assemble a nice gaming rig/media workstation desktop plus buy an iPad for the same cost as a nice laptop.
alan_cx 15y ago
Surely tablets are for consumers, and laptops are for workers and creators. I mean, I can't imagine developing anything on a tablet, iPad or otherwise, but grazing the web should be a breeze on a tablet. What does my head in is that nowadays, it seems computer = internet, and that is almost the only use people know of.
- Mythbusters 15y ago
  You are rarely a complete consume. Like here: we are being tiny producers here writing comments.But even this part is not very convenient on a iPad. If you have tried the split/thumb keyboard on Windows 8, you'll know what I mean.
- twiceaday 15y ago
  Tablets are for consumers, and laptops are for consumers, workers, and creators.
alan_cx 15y ago
Surely tablets are for consumers, and laptops are for workers and creators. I mean, I can't imagine developing anything on a tablet, iPad or otherwise, but grazing the web should be a breeze on a tablet.
- darksaga 15y ago
  I've had the same reaction to tablets. They're kid of a "tweener" device for me. If I want to, I can surf the web on my phone (Android), but I'm certainly not going to develop anything on a tablet. I take a 15-20 minute ride into the city every morning and I've built a few apps on the way. I really couldn't see myself trying to type on a smaller device, with a smaller screen and a condensed keyboard. I have yet to find a really good use for a tablet yet. I have an older 14.5" laptop which runs Linux Mint 11, and with only 1GB of ram, it's a lot faster than you think. It accomplishes the tasks of simple browsing, hammering out some quick code and other remedial tasks - and oh yeah, it only cost $150.
  - keithpeter 15y ago
    "I take a 15-20 minute ride into the city every morning and I've built a few apps on the way." For me its a netbook (Samsung NC10, 1024 by 600, 70 UK pounds off ebay) and I write worksheets and presentations and the occasional multiple choice quiz. That 2x 25minutes every day is really useful. The iPads I see in the wild here are mainly management types with leather wallet cases (no keyboards).
  - alan_cx 15y ago
    Thats why I say tabs are for consumers. If you want to just sit down and look at things on the web, then they are ideal. The second you want to participate, say, reply to some one on a forum, then it begins, IMHO, to get difficult. If you want to type out something or work, then its near impossible. OK, there is, or should be, more to it than browsing the web, but my point I think, is more about input. Maybe be its me, but I am yet to find anything better than a keyboard and mouse. Even track pads are a pain to me. What I think is a problem is that these tablets actually limit what one can efficiently do with a computer, which kinda goes against the whole point. I also think that "we" techie types are very different users to the majority of people who buy these things. We expect a "computer" to be versatile and do everything. Where as the average punter only wants limited set of things to work well. And these tabs do that really well. And, of course, there is more of them than us!!!!!!
saurik 15y ago
The physical form factor here described is "convertible slate". However, as someone who has spent a lot of their computer time using convertible slates (starting with a Compaq Concerto and a pre-release Dauphin DTR-1 back in 1992: yes, I was using "Windows 3.1 for Pen"), I will point out that with all of the circuitry in the slate the keyboard has to end up irritatingly poorly/awkwardly weighted (as it is way too light to make holding up the screen make sense) and is also bothersome to bring you (its "yet another fidgety component"). So, I then look at my 11" MacBook Air, and frankly: the dimensions are almost the same as the original iPad. It is /slightly/ wider (due to the constraints of having a full-size physical keyboard with keys that recess and also various ports such as USB that require a certain amount of clearance inside of the device, which is already so thin that these ports barely can exist in the device at all), but if USB is supplanted by something like Apple's Thunderbolt (convenient, huh), they could make it slightly narrower and slightly thinner. I then argue what you're really going to end up with is a device more like the NEC Versa (1995-ish) or ThinkPad X61 (more devices I've owned), where the screen rotates around and folds back down backwards. This way, you always have the keyboard with you, and it can "take the load off" the screen part by having real circuitry in it (thereby giving it enough heft to balance the screen easily), which in turn allows the combined size to be smaller (as otherwise you are having to artificially increase the heft of the keyboard). Apple, in fact, has been looking at such designs. We see patents from them for various ways of building a convertible slate for a while now. The original design had the screen hinged along the edge of the keyboard, where it could kind of slide down the case towards the end, and then fold back (away from you, as opposed to towards you) onto the keyboard, turning into a slate (which has the property that the screen's orientation doesn't change during the operation), but in 2011 we see the more traditional "rotate". http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2008/07/apple-reveals-secret-notebook-tablet.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2008/07/apple-re... http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-wins-patent-for-telephonic-macbook-with-rotatable-display.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-wi... The 2011 design also makes it clear that this device could have a cellular modem in it, which means that were it to exist it would compete with a 3G iPad. That brings us to the listed constraint of "run apps written for iOS". Truly, however: much like you don't actually want a case that can house a keyboard and attach it to an iPad, you also don't want to be able to run iOS applications; the mistake in both is to take what you have now, assume "I can't have it both ways", and then come up with some kind of band-aid solution. What you really want is to have a single set of applications that work well on either form factor due to a set of unified interface primitives. When you "convert" between a laptop and a slate, you don't want to be running a different web browser and a different word processor: you want there to be a seamless set of rather subtle changes to the apps you were just running (if any changes are required at all: in an ideal world you would want no changes, but there are practical concerns), allowing you to maintain mental state. Again, this is the direction Apple is headed. In Lion they have started moving desktop Mac OS X to a world of full-screen applications, just like on iOS, and are borrowing many of the UI elements. They reversed the scrolling direction (to make the gestures common) and removed the scrollbars (which already aren't present on iOS for various reasons). Gestures are now permeating more of the applications, and with just another couple years of this, the difference is going to be quite slight; and yes: they have another patent on it. http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/11/apple-wins-multiple-touch-macbook-tablet-patents.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/11/apple-wi... Really, the only thing left would be to figure out how to unify the App Store experience. Ideally (for Apple), the resulting ecosystem would be quite similar to the situation on iOS: a closed store that Apple controls, with careful "security" measures at all levels to keep the user from "messing up" their device with software that wasn't centrally vetted. This would be accomplished with a combination of protected firmware and sandboxing of all applications, each of which would be isolated to their own state. Well, with the advent of the Mac App Store we see Apple offering the same unified experience, and with Lion we saw them adding sandboxes. These sandboxes eventually became a required part of the workflow, and with Mountain Lion they are getting tighter. Meanwhile, Mountain Lion has added the "only from App Store" switch: defaulted to off (for now), but with another half-way setting, "only from registered developer" defaulted to on; even I felt this was ahead of schedule ;P. Again: we only need to look forward another couple years. tl;dr I believe Apple's behaviors (and patents) agree: their goal is to provide this.
vetler 15y ago
I have an Asus Transformer Prime and it's great, but it has its limits, and I frequently pull out my Macbook Pro. The Transformer looks like a laptop, but since it's running Android, it's kind of half a laptop: * Switching between apps is not as smooth as on a laptop running a normal operating system * It looks and feels like a laptop, but I still get mobile web pages * YouTube often tells me that the content isn't available on mobile Other than that, I like it. In particular I find myself touching the screen even though the keyboard with the trackpad is connected. Once or twice I've even tried to touch the screen while using my Macbook. The idea of having a laptop with a detachable screen is good, but for now it's probably still not possible to stick the capabilities of a normal laptop into something that would pass as a handy tablet. One idea I've been toying with is to set up a server, and just use Splashtop on my Transformer whenever I need a proper desktop, but for now it's really just easier to pull out my Macbook.
- jsnell 15y ago
  Regarding your point 2, you can switch at least the stock browser to use a desktop User-agent in the settings menu.
  - cryptoz 15y ago
    Android has a very nice, native YouTube app with a smooth interface. It can view about 50% of videos, though, since many users lock mobile users out (why?!). So opening the browser, using a development debug setting, running Flash and having awkward touch controls is quite the pain point for just wanting to see a video.
  - vetler 15y ago
    I usually use Opera Mobile, and have set the UA string to desktop, but I didn't know you could do this with the stock browser as well. Thanks, I'll try that out. In Opera Mobile with the UA set to desktop, the experience on YouTube is suboptimal compared to a normal laptop, unfortunately.
- georgemcbay 15y ago
  "The idea of having a laptop with a detachable screen is good, but for now it's probably still not possible to stick the capabilities of a normal laptop into something that would pass as a handy tablet." This use case is clearly part of the reason behind Microsoft's Windows 8 ARM strategy. Within a year I will almost certainly own an x86-64 laptop with a detachable screen that happens to be an ARM based tablet that can run independently of the main system, so long as you're just using the Metro apps. Apple could do the same with OS X/iOS, of course, though if they don't have an announcement for this on March 7th I wouldn't hold my breath for a while after that.
icebraining 15y ago
One year before the first iPad was released, there was a small laptop with a detachable touch screen that I drooled over, the Touch Book: http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/touch-book-tablet-netbook-with-arm-cpu-10-hour-battery-detachable-screen/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/touch-book-tablet-netbook-w... The only thing I found lacking was the screen size, which was too small for me (8.9"). And it had an ARM CPU, which at the time (before iOS and Android) was a poor choice for most people, although I could probably manage just fine.
nchlswu 15y ago
As a student, the compromises people are willing to make in order to own an iPad are amazing to witness. While this is anecdotal evidence, iPads are becoming notetaking devices, with such cases being pretty common. In other cases, people are struggling and bringing Apple Wireless keyboards, and pairing them with their iPad via bluetooth. In these situations, it doesn't matter how appropriate the device is. These users have an "iPad or nothing" attitude.
- eurleif 15y ago
  Are you sure it's not that they don't own laptops, and don't want to spend the money, rather than an attitude?
  - Wilya 15y ago
    Well, for the price of an iPad, you can get a high-end netbook. So, at some point, people have made the choice to get the iPad over the netbook, and cope with the disagreements.
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    I got a refurb Lenovo for the same price as an iPad. It isn't the most powerful laptop in the world, but its a lot beefier than an iPad.
  - nchlswu 15y ago
    to be fair, I can't be sure 100% of the time. However, in some smaller classes, I've witnessed some mid-semester changes in devices, which does suggest this attitude. Considering the iPad's cost vs. capability in an academic setting (incompatible software comes to mind), I would say an iPad suggests it's an attitude or predisposition as opposed to being financially determined.
- bergie 15y ago
  It might also show how battery life is becoming the main feature of portable devices. And iPad is hard to beat on that (though my Transformer Prime is even better when the keyboard dock is connected)
cryptoz 15y ago
I have a Xoom with a wireless keyboard and I love the setup. It's important to push the hardware boundaries and blur the lines so you can see what users will want in the future. The iPad is too locked to allow for the developers to build real keyboard apps. But the Android tablet ecosystem is different, and it allows for more traditional-desktop-OS styled apps. Development should be a smooth experience sometime soon, I hope. The author doesn't want an iPad but he might want some kind of Android device in two or three years.
Schultzy 15y ago
I don't want an iPad or a laptop. My ideal would be an all in one device: a smartphone that docks into a tablet that docks into a keyboard. Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Rrh_EwFaZ7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R... I know it will be awhile until the hardware in the phone can be powerful enough to compete with laptop performance, but I hope it comes soon. Also, while I like ASUS' concept, I think it really needs Apple's design thinking to take it from good to great.
Craiggybear 15y ago
What you really want is a netbook hackintosh running OS X. All the benefits of a small form-factor -- but its a 'real' computer, can run a compiler and a webserver and doesn't put any artificial obstacles in your way. Program development at the command line, browser (any) with flash and install anything you like. It will sync with your office desktop and its cheap. Not everyone has the nous or the patience but if you do its a doddle to do and works really well.
devs1010 15y ago
I agree with the author, people at my old job would have this setup and I found it odd, I do have an Android tablet but I use it very differently from my laptop, I use it for browsing, watching movies, etc and video skyping, if I ever have an urge to do "real work", I always fire up the laptop, I think some people fell a little to hard for all the marketing of these tablets as they really convinced themselves they no longer need a real laptop, IMO the two complement one another.. after a long day of work, some days I just don't want to touch a regular computer again but if I need to look something up real quick, or just read articles, the tab is great for that, it gives a different user experience which is a nice change.
amurmann 15y ago
>"Ideally, what I would like (and I think most people would like) is something of the form factor of a MacBook Air (thin and light), that has a detachable touch-screen that can run apps written for iOS or Android, and when the screen is connected to the main body, acts like a fully-functioning laptop." To make the screen detachable you would need to have everything in the screen section which, as others already pointed out, makes for a awkward weight distribution. Years ago I've seen a laptop with a touch screen where you were able to pivot the screen and close it with the display pointing up. So the laptop was closed, but you were still able to use the touch screen. A MacBook Air with where you can do that and that can run iOS Apps would in my eyes be the perfect solution.
jsz0 15y ago
I want both. It's more practical to make a tablet into a laptop than it is to make a laptop into a tablet. Eventually the iPad will run OSX when its docked into a MacBook Air or iMac style enclosure and run iOS when it's not. The two operating systems will work very well together. If you're working on a Pages document on iOS when you dock it will automatically open in Pages on OSX. All your open Safari windows on iOS will open on OSX. It's just a matter of time. Tablets need to get a little bit faster and integration between the mobile and desktop OS needs to improve so it's a seamless experience.
toddnessa 15y ago
I don't see how you can ever replace a laptop. iPads are cool and have appeal as being easier to grab & go- kind of like a larger version of our iPhones. Tablets as an accessory, yes. However, as a replacement for our laptops, no way! Those of use who daily use and rely upon our laptops know better.
ktizo 15y ago
IMHO, tablety paddy things are all just expensive toys unless they let you use some form of accurate stylus as well as your fingers. Fingers have some major usability issues if used as your only drawing instrument, when it comes to any form of detailed technical drawing, and in engineering environments are often covered in various interesting varieties of minging filth. Also, we can see down to a much finer point than the tip of a finger and even if I have paid out serious money for something that calls itself a 'retina display' I would still like to be able to try and see which pixel it is I am selecting.
- wmf 15y ago
  Very few people do any drawing/drafting, and for them there's Wacom.
  - ktizo 15y ago
    Yep you are right. Almost no-one does any drawing or drafting. Apart from every moody teenager in the world as far as I can tell. Plus the whole creative industry. Oh, and artists.
donniezazen 15y ago
Because of distraction-free-single-tasking-writing.
j45 15y ago
I've been trying out a bit of a different setup and finding some interesting results so far. I switched from an iPhone to a Samsung Galaxy Note to try and achieve a few things: - I liked owning an iPad but didn't like carrying it with me in addition to my laptop. - I liked consuming information on my iPad. I wanted to continue consuming information on a device. - I liked trying to make my iPad my sole device for communication (Facebook, twitter, email, IM, Skype.) If I could do it on my iPad I could block out those distractions on my laptop. I live not running any notification stuff on my laptop when coding. I really like being able to come to my communication device and find that there. - the iPhone seemed to small to use as an information consumption device, iPad too big to carry to do the same. If I wanted a physical keyboard on my iPad I could get a MacBook air (which I did and its working great for that purpose) - my iPad became strangely redundant in my use case after getting an Air because I wanted a light device to carry around. Ended up selling it. - The Note fits in my pocket. It's thinner and lighter than an iPhone from everyone who's compared the weight - The Galaxy Note seems huge as a phone but small as a serviceable tablet. The high screen res makes it very usable. I've been varying just the note and my air and its almost starring to feel like I'm where I should be. So, maybe you're looking for an Ultrabook and a 'Phablet'. I'm going to ride this out until the iPhone 5 is available to re-evaluate then.
- coob 15y ago
  "It's thinner and lighter than an iPhone from everyone who's compared the weight" Apparently these people didn't have a scale, as the iPhone 4S is 140g and the Note is 178g.
  - j45 15y ago
    Apparently so, I guess the size of it makes it seem lighter, for its' size. :)
newman314 15y ago
Personally, the tablet form factor is great for consumption. For example, watching movies or casual web browsing. For me, I don't have much use for a tablet on the creation side but suspect it might be of use for specific requirements, people DJ'ing etc. But my mindset has always been: right tool for the job. Trying to use a tablet as a laptop probably will be very frustrating in short order.
JVIDEL 15y ago
The author has a point: many iPad buyers spend a lot of money to work around the limitations of the device. Is not a minority, else there wouldn't be so many keyboard cases for it. I think the problem are all those pundits talking about the "post-PC era". Some are even reinforcing that point with Windows 8, but guess what? That OS is Windows7 with a touch UI layer on top. The only real novelty is the ARM version, in which case we're entering the post-WinTel era (at last!). The iPad beats the crap of any PDA or PMP, but PCs and Macs? Sorry, is just not that versatile. The limitations it has have more to do with battery life and engineering constrains than actual ease-of-use. And APPL patents are rarely made into actual products. Ironically that one from 2008 has far more in common with that slider tablet from ASUS than anything APPL is actually working on.
shimon_e 15y ago
I've gone through the same experience and Microsoft has galp sold me Windows 8. Having watched their keynote at MWC I am quiet impress at what has been done behind the scenes for Windows 8. Some influence from Plan 9/linux can be seen with the new hard drive space management. The new process management seems exciting if it works properly. Microsoft seems to have put some serious engineers behind Windows 8. For that I tip them my hat. I can't wait till I can get the Lenovo Yoga. I'm after a laptop with an IPS screen and I'm after a 13" tablet. I think my setup for next year will be desktop/server + Lenovo Yoga + 8" tablet + 4"+ phone.
dkrich 15y ago
I think this all depends on the user. If you are a person who is largely a consumer of data (reading Twitter, checking email, etc.), the form factor and weight of a tablet is great. If you produce more data (constantly writing emails, code, working with spreadsheets, etc.), you definitely need a laptop.
felixfurtak 15y ago
This reminds me of when laptop screens went glossy. Firstly everyone thought that they liked it. Then they realized that these screens were actually less ergonomic to use due to the increased mirror reflection. Now it is often necessary to pay more for the option of a non-glossy ('anti-glare') screen.
pbreit 15y ago
For the first 8 paragraphs I was thinking "What an idiot!" but then the last two might suggest a great idea: have the iPad switch to MacOS when it is inserted into a keyboard stand.
cwilson 15y ago
While the author continues to scratch his head because he's attempting to fit a square into a circle, I'll continue to use my Macbook Air for actual work, my iPad for couch/bedside/casual consuming, and my iPhone for communicating on the go. You know, what all of the devices are meant to do. Can anyone here actually see Apple releasing a product that has a detachable part? That stands for everything Apple is against when they design products.
parvinsingh 15y ago
The funny thing is that we buy what comes in new, and don't really know the purpose or use of it. iPad to me makes sense if you are an avid browser, and a reader, or type in few short emails a day. First came iPhone, and then came various keyboards which can be blue toothed to the phone. Dude!! the iPhone has a touch keypad, and its not for typing in long emails. Use the gadget for what it is meant for.
snowwrestler 15y ago
With an iPad and keyboard you can turn the iPad vertical for some uses, horizontal for others.
bastian 15y ago
Most sane thing ever said about the iPad.
hef19898 15y ago
Without having read all the 119 comments (sorry for that), it seems to me that this is exactly the kind of device Microsoft is envisioning with Windows 8, isn't it? Unfortunately, up to now you have to choose between an iPad (or something similar) and a full-fledged notebook since netbooks are basicly killed by the former and not powerfull enough for the later. So, as far as I see, there's a gap that can be exploited, why carry and buy in the first place, two devices when one is enough? The only point where I beg to differ with the author is if it's really Apple who debuts a gadget like that. Windows 8 seems, up to know, the most promising OS around that goes into this direction. On the other hand I simply cannot tell what Apple has in the works... Whoever is going to to be first with such a talet - notebook hybrid, it's an intressting development nontheless
padobson 15y ago
I dont think we're discussing real solutions to the mobile computing problem here - just stop gaps. The issue with doing real work on a tab or smartphone is that touch is not a fast or accurate input medium - mice and keyboards are much better suited for it. However, it would be foolish to think this will always be the case. Some combination of our devices recognizing new gestures (grasp, cup, etc.), advances in interface design and voice recognition will eventually disrupt the keyboard and mouse. Since our data can basically be stored in a number of device agnostic ways already via cloud computing, user interfaces for interacting with that data are only going to iterate faster and faster. I think the problem of creating content on the go is going to be solved in the software too soon to warrant a whole product line that merges keyboards and trackpads into our tabets.

250 points by sendos 15y ago

Well.. amazing how long it took to realize for him.. There are certainly usecases for a tablet and for a laptop, it's not like you have to try hard to use a shiny new gadget for something it is not good at..

badboy 15y ago

When I started to study last year in October I thought about getting a tablet for day-to-day use. But then I realized everything and more can be done with a small Laptop aswell and reading papers is even better on a Kindle than on a tablet anyway. I am happy with my choice, there's such no usecase for a tablet where my laptop/smartphone/kindle can't do a better job overall.

nextparadigms 15y ago

You can have both with an Asus Transformer - integrated keyboard that turns it into a laptop and with 15-18h battery life, and tablet for when you need it on the couch/whatever. Why compromise? Those accessories for the iPad are not integrated at all, and they look rather silly.

twiceaday 15y ago
Asus Transformer - Android - 10" screen at 1280x800 - 2.9 pounds (with the dock) - 16GB HD + 1GB ram - 15hr battery 11" Air - OSX - 11.6" screen at 1344x756 - 2.3 pounds - 64GB HD + 2GB ram - 5hr battery The only thing that Transformer has going for it is the battery life, everything else is a compromise.
- kzrdude 15y ago
  Air also has a 1.6 GHz Core i5 processor.
- liquidsnake 15y ago
  Well, the fact that the Air can't be used as a tablet and does not have a touchscreen can be considered a compromise as well :).
  - CPlatypus 15y ago
    Exactly. For the comparison to be valid (I'm typing this on a Transformer BTW) you'd have to compare to the Air plus an iPad. You'd also have to compare prices, and there the Air loses badly even without including the iPad.
    - twiceaday 15y ago
      I think the point of contention is the necessity of tablets. As ultrabooks get lighter and more power efficient they muscle their way into the 3rd device slot that tablets are meat to fill, all the while holding on to the 2nd and even 1st device slots.
      - CPlatypus 15y ago
        I don't think that really works, though. It certainly doesn't for me. Much of the time, I like the lighter, smaller tablet form factor (even compared to the several netbooks I've owned). I definitely like being able to flip between horizontal and vertical screen aspects on a whim. Other times, I really need to have a keyboard, but I do have to increase weight and bulk for that. Therefore, my ideal would be a single device that does both without having to deal with syncing data between two devices. An "ultrabook" cannot do that, by definition; if it could, it would be a tablet with a dock. It's therefore not true that an ultrabook can fulfill the third-device role. Its far more likely that tablets will evolve to become adequate second (i.e. near-desktop) machines while retaining their third-machine attributes, but it's flatly impossible for ultrabooks to become adequate third machines. For many people it's not the tablet but the monolithic laptop that is likely to become superfluous in a two-machine instead of three-machine world.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
- hollerith 15y ago
  I have never used a 11" Air, but they get quite warm; don't they? In contrast, the iPad 2 has never in my experience got even noticeably warmer than its surroundings, and I tend to believe that the Transformer line will also have that (very welcome, IMO) property.
  - twiceaday 15y ago
    Only Flash and StarCraft II heat up my Air, otherwise the fan stays off and it's completely cool and quiet.
  - randallsquared 15y ago
    If you're playing an FPS or running a coupla VMs, it gets warm, but not too warm to sit on your leg.
- mgcross 15y ago
  MBA 11" is actually 1366x768, but I'd prefer the 16:10 screen of the Asus over the 16:9 MBA. Also, unless the panel has changed, the Transformer has a beautiful IPS screen. The colors and viewing angle on my MBA suck compared to an iPad or Transformer.
- Mythbusters 15y ago
  How about price?
- vacri 15y ago
  If 'bigger screen' rather than 'desired screen' is the required spec, then surely a 17" laptop handily beats out the MBA? It'll have a bigger hard drive, and more RAM as well.

jfruh 15y ago

"Ideally, what I would like (and I think most people would like) is something of the form factor of a MacBook Air (thin and light), that has a detachable touch-screen that can run apps written for iOS or Android, and when the screen is connected to the main body, acts like a fully-functioning laptop." What's the difference in practice between "a laptop with a detachable screen" and "a tablet that fits into a case that holds up the screen and provides a keyboard"? In terms of form factor, those two strike me as identical. Of course, if iOS doesn't do it for you in the laptop form factor, then it doesn't do it for you, but that's more a software than a hardware problem (and I'm willing to bet is a software problem not everybody has).

twiceaday 15y ago
That's the point. A laptop with a detachable screen implies a full OS with the ability to run in mobile mode. A dockable tablet implies only a mobile OS. The former can be your only pc while the latter is purely supplemental.
- geon 15y ago
  There is absolutely no reason why a dockable mobile device would not deliver a full desktop experience. Have you seen the Android/Ubuntu demo? They ran Ubuntu on a cellphone in a dock. Very impressive.
  - Mythbusters 15y ago
    Windows 8 has a similar experience built in whith the advantage that you have a full OS with you at all times if you need it.
prophetjohn 15y ago
The difference is that an iPad docked to a keyboard isn't a fully functioning laptop. It seems like the author is looking for (for instance) a device that runs OS X, with all the power of a MBA when in laptop mode, but once you detach the screen runs iOS and has limited functionality. So maybe the author really just has a problem with the limited capabilities of iOS and the performance difference between an iPad and a MBP.

shahoo 15y ago

Ultrabooks are rushing in to fill this need. I just bought one and it has been everything I hoped.

pgrote 15y ago
Which one did you get and have there been any surprises with it?

l1ghtm4n 15y ago

I only purchased an iPad after realizing one specific use case. Managing my new baby. General purpose computing or browsing is left to my laptop. Things specific to baby like FaceTime/skype, pandora music, one-handed browsing while holding the baby, work perfectly. But it never leaves this environment. Laptop for everything else.

pgrote 15y ago
Here, here. Kids are a great market for iPads. When we bought our first I thought it would be nothing more than a toy, but to see the interaction our 2 and now 3 year old has with it is amazing. The gesture interface is an excellent method for kids to learn and feel comfortable.

jjp9999 15y ago

I was going to get an iPad a while back. Basically, unless you're doing basic Web browsing or just playing games, you need a keyboard to do any real work on a tablet. Also, they're light, but still not much different than a MacBook Air - and they're not much cheaper. Tablets still just seem like a novelty to me - toys for gaming and watching movies. If you want a serious tablet though, check out the Modbooks. They're regular Mac notebooks hacked to use touchscreens. They're good if you do art on your notebook, since you can basically draw on the screen, you get all the features of a full-fledged notebook, and they were around long before the iPad.

cwe 15y ago

This is Windows 8's primary use case. We'll soon see how many people agree with OP

vyrotek 15y ago
This makes a lot of sense. I played around with Windows 8 this week and thought this hybrid felt a bit awkward on my desktop pc. But installed on a laptop which converts to a tablet would be very practical and useful.

recoiledsnake 15y ago

>"Ideally, what I would like (and I think most people would like) is something of the form factor of a MacBook Air (thin and light), that has a detachable touch-screen that can run apps written for iOS or Android, and when the screen is connected to the main body, acts like a fully-functioning laptop." >I think some devices like this are beginning to appear, but so far none of them are compelling. It might take Apple to show them how it's done, again. Really? Not even a mention of Windows 8, if it is just to say why it doesn't suit his needs? Has the author taken a look at upcoming Windows 8 devices like the Samsung Slate ? Or is the discussion artificially limited to Apple devices when Apple has specially noted that they don't envision a fusion device/OS (atleast in the short-medium term) because it won't be a good consumer experience. The tradeoff of the Slate is lower battery life and things like a fan, but it has a Core i5 and can run all Windows apps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1ZbY03nTQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1ZbY03nTQ Or check out the IdeaPad Yoga, a 13" Macbook-Air like laptop that can double as a Windows 8 tablet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHKFYngqOM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHKFYngqOM http://cnettv.cnet.com/hands-lenovo-ideapad-yoga/9742-1_53-50118072.html http://cnettv.cnet.com/hands-lenovo-ideapad-yoga/9742-1_53-5... There will be Windows 8 ARM tablets that will be fanless and have great battery life, but they can run only Metro apps and touch optimized versions of Office. These are just the tip of the iceberg and there will be lots of Transformer like devices in the coming months running Windows 8. These may or may not fit the author's needs, but excluding them from the discussion doesn't seem like a good move to me.

prophetjohn 15y ago
Why is this being downvoted? Because it allows for the possibility that a Microsoft product could satisfy the needs of someone when an Apple product doesn't? If you disagree, say why. A downvote isn't a substitute for substantiating your opinion.
- Mythbusters 15y ago
  Its hacker news. What do you expect? Not many Windows users here.

weissguy 15y ago

Before I moved internationally for school, I was concerned I would need a secondary computing device that would have a lot of functionality, a lot of portability, and be cheap enough not to worry about if it, say, dropped out of my backpack while riding my bike across town. I looked at all kinds of tablets, but then I realized I could get more functionality, roughly equal portability and battery life, for a much cheaper price. My ASUS netbook was the best money I've ever spent. For $250, I got: -A 10.1 inch screen -9-10 honest hours of battery life if you're conservative -A 1.5GHz dual core processor fast enough to watch 360p videos while running Visual Studio and Eclipse -2GB of DDR3 RAM -A 250GB HD -3 USB 2.0 ports -Ability to dual boot Win7 Pro and Linux -A keyboard -A webcam -All in a device that weighs less than 3 pounds and fits easily in any small bag. It blows my mind that people would want to spend $300+ on a device with slightly more portability and far, far less functionality.

hollerith 15y ago
Although I am not trying to argue against your overall position, my experience with a Core-Duo Macbook and an iPad 2 leads me to the firm conclusion that an iPad is going to feel a lot faster than the above set-up until you add an SDD.
- weissguy 15y ago
  I've used an iPad before and I am totally willing to admit that it is a sexy device. It felt fast and was able to do a lot of useful things. What really convinced me to buy my netbook was the ability to not worry about my computing device. Carrying around a $500 thin piece of hardware that is constantly in danger of breaking in half or getting stolen in an unfamiliar European city was just not appealing to me.
  - hollerith 15y ago
    I've used an iPad 2 extensively and (like most people reading this) I've owned a clamshell-format device, and although I do not hold myself out as an expert on such things, I would have guessed that the iPad is the more durable device because there are fewer moving parts and no moving parts as complex or as prone to getting gummed up as the clamshell's hinge or a trackpad. Do not get me wrong: I am perfectly willing to believe that a netbook is better for you than a tablet; I am just finding it a little hard to believe that durability concerns tip the balance in favor of the netbook. P.S. The iPad's back and sides are machined from a single piece of aluminum; do iPad's really break in half?

nchuhoai 15y ago

People need to stop telling other people what they want.

qrybam 15y ago

While an ASUS Transformer Prime is still limited in certain ways like the iPad, surely that's already a step in the right direction (as far as this post is concerned)?

WiseWeasel 15y ago

I've got to say this article was fairly disappointing. So the author finds more value in a laptop than an iPad; that means that everyone else must also arrive at the same conclusion? That's a load of crap. Different people have different needs, and for some, an iPad may satisfy them better. For me, I've realized that a laptop is sub-optimal, and a desktop and soon an iPad 3 makes much more sense. You see, I only do productivity work for extended periods in a single location. I don't need to haul a computer back and forth to work, and I don't need to do extended work out of coffee shops or hotel rooms. A proper ergonomic desktop workstation is therefore the most valuable and economical solution for productivity in my case. For mobile use, I just want something to browse the web on the couch or in bed, control my entertainment center, maybe play the occasional game or watch the occasional movie or TV show, respond to an email once in a while, and have the batteries last all day doing it. I seriously couldn't care less about a built-in keyboard, and laptop keyboards are all terrible for productivity in any case. And though the Author thinks the iPad is a, "limited device... in terms of what websites [he] can watch", I think I've had problems with a website all of one time, when it rendered some form fields above a submit button and I couldn't complete a purchase on a small e-commerce site. I've got a MacBook Pro that is currently being so under-used, that I will hardly notice its absence after I replace it with the upcoming iPad. This whole piece seems like a useless rant to me, certainly not up to my lofty standards for HN-worthiness.

jasonlotito 15y ago
Don't take this the wrong way, but a laptop can still suit your needs just like a desktop. For various reasons, I have an 27" iMac and a 15" MBP, and from work, a MBA, full loaded, with a 27" Monitor. Obviously, an iPad 2 as well. So, I've used numerous configurations. Having the portability of a laptop with the "ergonomics of a desktop". I use a normal keyboard and mouse. While you would work from the one on the laptop, it wouldn't make much sense, imo. Not trying to say you are wrong, just something to consider. As someone who very much enjoys desktops, the laptop + external monitor setup is quite enjoyable.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  The main advantages of a desktop over a laptop for me are that the desktop has far more storage and PCI expandability, is suitable for gaming, and since I don't need to work in multiple locations, I see no benefit in being able to disconnect my CPU and use it elsewhere. This frees up precious desktop surface space as the CPU is under the desk, and I don't have to deal with an extra monitor at a weird height and uselessly small size in relation to my main screen, or closing the clamshell to sleep, but then waking it up with external inputs and using it with the lid closed, which is very harmful due to improper ventilation, and I don't want to have to disconnect a bunch of cables when I want to go mobile, or reconnect them each time I want to use my workstation. There are a million small inconveniences to using a laptop as a component to a workstation, to the point that I'd simply rather not deal with it. Plus, desktops are cheaper; I can assemble a nice gaming rig/media workstation desktop plus buy an iPad for the same cost as a nice laptop.

alan_cx 15y ago

Surely tablets are for consumers, and laptops are for workers and creators. I mean, I can't imagine developing anything on a tablet, iPad or otherwise, but grazing the web should be a breeze on a tablet. What does my head in is that nowadays, it seems computer = internet, and that is almost the only use people know of.

Mythbusters 15y ago
You are rarely a complete consume. Like here: we are being tiny producers here writing comments.But even this part is not very convenient on a iPad. If you have tried the split/thumb keyboard on Windows 8, you'll know what I mean.
twiceaday 15y ago
Tablets are for consumers, and laptops are for consumers, workers, and creators.

alan_cx 15y ago

darksaga 15y ago
I've had the same reaction to tablets. They're kid of a "tweener" device for me. If I want to, I can surf the web on my phone (Android), but I'm certainly not going to develop anything on a tablet. I take a 15-20 minute ride into the city every morning and I've built a few apps on the way. I really couldn't see myself trying to type on a smaller device, with a smaller screen and a condensed keyboard. I have yet to find a really good use for a tablet yet. I have an older 14.5" laptop which runs Linux Mint 11, and with only 1GB of ram, it's a lot faster than you think. It accomplishes the tasks of simple browsing, hammering out some quick code and other remedial tasks - and oh yeah, it only cost $150.
- keithpeter 15y ago
  "I take a 15-20 minute ride into the city every morning and I've built a few apps on the way." For me its a netbook (Samsung NC10, 1024 by 600, 70 UK pounds off ebay) and I write worksheets and presentations and the occasional multiple choice quiz. That 2x 25minutes every day is really useful. The iPads I see in the wild here are mainly management types with leather wallet cases (no keyboards).
- alan_cx 15y ago
  Thats why I say tabs are for consumers. If you want to just sit down and look at things on the web, then they are ideal. The second you want to participate, say, reply to some one on a forum, then it begins, IMHO, to get difficult. If you want to type out something or work, then its near impossible. OK, there is, or should be, more to it than browsing the web, but my point I think, is more about input. Maybe be its me, but I am yet to find anything better than a keyboard and mouse. Even track pads are a pain to me. What I think is a problem is that these tablets actually limit what one can efficiently do with a computer, which kinda goes against the whole point. I also think that "we" techie types are very different users to the majority of people who buy these things. We expect a "computer" to be versatile and do everything. Where as the average punter only wants limited set of things to work well. And these tabs do that really well. And, of course, there is more of them than us!!!!!!

saurik 15y ago

The physical form factor here described is "convertible slate". However, as someone who has spent a lot of their computer time using convertible slates (starting with a Compaq Concerto and a pre-release Dauphin DTR-1 back in 1992: yes, I was using "Windows 3.1 for Pen"), I will point out that with all of the circuitry in the slate the keyboard has to end up irritatingly poorly/awkwardly weighted (as it is way too light to make holding up the screen make sense) and is also bothersome to bring you (its "yet another fidgety component"). So, I then look at my 11" MacBook Air, and frankly: the dimensions are almost the same as the original iPad. It is /slightly/ wider (due to the constraints of having a full-size physical keyboard with keys that recess and also various ports such as USB that require a certain amount of clearance inside of the device, which is already so thin that these ports barely can exist in the device at all), but if USB is supplanted by something like Apple's Thunderbolt (convenient, huh), they could make it slightly narrower and slightly thinner. I then argue what you're really going to end up with is a device more like the NEC Versa (1995-ish) or ThinkPad X61 (more devices I've owned), where the screen rotates around and folds back down backwards. This way, you always have the keyboard with you, and it can "take the load off" the screen part by having real circuitry in it (thereby giving it enough heft to balance the screen easily), which in turn allows the combined size to be smaller (as otherwise you are having to artificially increase the heft of the keyboard). Apple, in fact, has been looking at such designs. We see patents from them for various ways of building a convertible slate for a while now. The original design had the screen hinged along the edge of the keyboard, where it could kind of slide down the case towards the end, and then fold back (away from you, as opposed to towards you) onto the keyboard, turning into a slate (which has the property that the screen's orientation doesn't change during the operation), but in 2011 we see the more traditional "rotate". http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2008/07/apple-reveals-secret-notebook-tablet.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2008/07/apple-re... http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-wins-patent-for-telephonic-macbook-with-rotatable-display.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-wi... The 2011 design also makes it clear that this device could have a cellular modem in it, which means that were it to exist it would compete with a 3G iPad. That brings us to the listed constraint of "run apps written for iOS". Truly, however: much like you don't actually want a case that can house a keyboard and attach it to an iPad, you also don't want to be able to run iOS applications; the mistake in both is to take what you have now, assume "I can't have it both ways", and then come up with some kind of band-aid solution. What you really want is to have a single set of applications that work well on either form factor due to a set of unified interface primitives. When you "convert" between a laptop and a slate, you don't want to be running a different web browser and a different word processor: you want there to be a seamless set of rather subtle changes to the apps you were just running (if any changes are required at all: in an ideal world you would want no changes, but there are practical concerns), allowing you to maintain mental state. Again, this is the direction Apple is headed. In Lion they have started moving desktop Mac OS X to a world of full-screen applications, just like on iOS, and are borrowing many of the UI elements. They reversed the scrolling direction (to make the gestures common) and removed the scrollbars (which already aren't present on iOS for various reasons). Gestures are now permeating more of the applications, and with just another couple years of this, the difference is going to be quite slight; and yes: they have another patent on it. http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/11/apple-wins-multiple-touch-macbook-tablet-patents.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/11/apple-wi... Really, the only thing left would be to figure out how to unify the App Store experience. Ideally (for Apple), the resulting ecosystem would be quite similar to the situation on iOS: a closed store that Apple controls, with careful "security" measures at all levels to keep the user from "messing up" their device with software that wasn't centrally vetted. This would be accomplished with a combination of protected firmware and sandboxing of all applications, each of which would be isolated to their own state. Well, with the advent of the Mac App Store we see Apple offering the same unified experience, and with Lion we saw them adding sandboxes. These sandboxes eventually became a required part of the workflow, and with Mountain Lion they are getting tighter. Meanwhile, Mountain Lion has added the "only from App Store" switch: defaulted to off (for now), but with another half-way setting, "only from registered developer" defaulted to on; even I felt this was ahead of schedule ;P. Again: we only need to look forward another couple years. tl;dr I believe Apple's behaviors (and patents) agree: their goal is to provide this.

vetler 15y ago

I have an Asus Transformer Prime and it's great, but it has its limits, and I frequently pull out my Macbook Pro. The Transformer looks like a laptop, but since it's running Android, it's kind of half a laptop: * Switching between apps is not as smooth as on a laptop running a normal operating system * It looks and feels like a laptop, but I still get mobile web pages * YouTube often tells me that the content isn't available on mobile Other than that, I like it. In particular I find myself touching the screen even though the keyboard with the trackpad is connected. Once or twice I've even tried to touch the screen while using my Macbook. The idea of having a laptop with a detachable screen is good, but for now it's probably still not possible to stick the capabilities of a normal laptop into something that would pass as a handy tablet. One idea I've been toying with is to set up a server, and just use Splashtop on my Transformer whenever I need a proper desktop, but for now it's really just easier to pull out my Macbook.

jsnell 15y ago
Regarding your point 2, you can switch at least the stock browser to use a desktop User-agent in the settings menu.
- cryptoz 15y ago
  Android has a very nice, native YouTube app with a smooth interface. It can view about 50% of videos, though, since many users lock mobile users out (why?!). So opening the browser, using a development debug setting, running Flash and having awkward touch controls is quite the pain point for just wanting to see a video.
- vetler 15y ago
  I usually use Opera Mobile, and have set the UA string to desktop, but I didn't know you could do this with the stock browser as well. Thanks, I'll try that out. In Opera Mobile with the UA set to desktop, the experience on YouTube is suboptimal compared to a normal laptop, unfortunately.
georgemcbay 15y ago
"The idea of having a laptop with a detachable screen is good, but for now it's probably still not possible to stick the capabilities of a normal laptop into something that would pass as a handy tablet." This use case is clearly part of the reason behind Microsoft's Windows 8 ARM strategy. Within a year I will almost certainly own an x86-64 laptop with a detachable screen that happens to be an ARM based tablet that can run independently of the main system, so long as you're just using the Metro apps. Apple could do the same with OS X/iOS, of course, though if they don't have an announcement for this on March 7th I wouldn't hold my breath for a while after that.

icebraining 15y ago

One year before the first iPad was released, there was a small laptop with a detachable touch screen that I drooled over, the Touch Book: http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/touch-book-tablet-netbook-with-arm-cpu-10-hour-battery-detachable-screen/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/touch-book-tablet-netbook-w... The only thing I found lacking was the screen size, which was too small for me (8.9"). And it had an ARM CPU, which at the time (before iOS and Android) was a poor choice for most people, although I could probably manage just fine.

nchlswu 15y ago

As a student, the compromises people are willing to make in order to own an iPad are amazing to witness. While this is anecdotal evidence, iPads are becoming notetaking devices, with such cases being pretty common. In other cases, people are struggling and bringing Apple Wireless keyboards, and pairing them with their iPad via bluetooth. In these situations, it doesn't matter how appropriate the device is. These users have an "iPad or nothing" attitude.

eurleif 15y ago
Are you sure it's not that they don't own laptops, and don't want to spend the money, rather than an attitude?
- Wilya 15y ago
  Well, for the price of an iPad, you can get a high-end netbook. So, at some point, people have made the choice to get the iPad over the netbook, and cope with the disagreements.
- polyfractal 15y ago
  I got a refurb Lenovo for the same price as an iPad. It isn't the most powerful laptop in the world, but its a lot beefier than an iPad.
- nchlswu 15y ago
  to be fair, I can't be sure 100% of the time. However, in some smaller classes, I've witnessed some mid-semester changes in devices, which does suggest this attitude. Considering the iPad's cost vs. capability in an academic setting (incompatible software comes to mind), I would say an iPad suggests it's an attitude or predisposition as opposed to being financially determined.
bergie 15y ago
It might also show how battery life is becoming the main feature of portable devices. And iPad is hard to beat on that (though my Transformer Prime is even better when the keyboard dock is connected)

cryptoz 15y ago

I have a Xoom with a wireless keyboard and I love the setup. It's important to push the hardware boundaries and blur the lines so you can see what users will want in the future. The iPad is too locked to allow for the developers to build real keyboard apps. But the Android tablet ecosystem is different, and it allows for more traditional-desktop-OS styled apps. Development should be a smooth experience sometime soon, I hope. The author doesn't want an iPad but he might want some kind of Android device in two or three years.

Schultzy 15y ago

I don't want an iPad or a laptop. My ideal would be an all in one device: a smartphone that docks into a tablet that docks into a keyboard. Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Rrh_EwFaZ7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R... I know it will be awhile until the hardware in the phone can be powerful enough to compete with laptop performance, but I hope it comes soon. Also, while I like ASUS' concept, I think it really needs Apple's design thinking to take it from good to great.

Craiggybear 15y ago

What you really want is a netbook hackintosh running OS X. All the benefits of a small form-factor -- but its a 'real' computer, can run a compiler and a webserver and doesn't put any artificial obstacles in your way. Program development at the command line, browser (any) with flash and install anything you like. It will sync with your office desktop and its cheap. Not everyone has the nous or the patience but if you do its a doddle to do and works really well.

devs1010 15y ago

I agree with the author, people at my old job would have this setup and I found it odd, I do have an Android tablet but I use it very differently from my laptop, I use it for browsing, watching movies, etc and video skyping, if I ever have an urge to do "real work", I always fire up the laptop, I think some people fell a little to hard for all the marketing of these tablets as they really convinced themselves they no longer need a real laptop, IMO the two complement one another.. after a long day of work, some days I just don't want to touch a regular computer again but if I need to look something up real quick, or just read articles, the tab is great for that, it gives a different user experience which is a nice change.

amurmann 15y ago

jsz0 15y ago

I want both. It's more practical to make a tablet into a laptop than it is to make a laptop into a tablet. Eventually the iPad will run OSX when its docked into a MacBook Air or iMac style enclosure and run iOS when it's not. The two operating systems will work very well together. If you're working on a Pages document on iOS when you dock it will automatically open in Pages on OSX. All your open Safari windows on iOS will open on OSX. It's just a matter of time. Tablets need to get a little bit faster and integration between the mobile and desktop OS needs to improve so it's a seamless experience.

toddnessa 15y ago

I don't see how you can ever replace a laptop. iPads are cool and have appeal as being easier to grab & go- kind of like a larger version of our iPhones. Tablets as an accessory, yes. However, as a replacement for our laptops, no way! Those of use who daily use and rely upon our laptops know better.

ktizo 15y ago

IMHO, tablety paddy things are all just expensive toys unless they let you use some form of accurate stylus as well as your fingers. Fingers have some major usability issues if used as your only drawing instrument, when it comes to any form of detailed technical drawing, and in engineering environments are often covered in various interesting varieties of minging filth. Also, we can see down to a much finer point than the tip of a finger and even if I have paid out serious money for something that calls itself a 'retina display' I would still like to be able to try and see which pixel it is I am selecting.

wmf 15y ago
Very few people do any drawing/drafting, and for them there's Wacom.
- ktizo 15y ago
  Yep you are right. Almost no-one does any drawing or drafting. Apart from every moody teenager in the world as far as I can tell. Plus the whole creative industry. Oh, and artists.

donniezazen 15y ago

Because of distraction-free-single-tasking-writing.

j45 15y ago

I've been trying out a bit of a different setup and finding some interesting results so far. I switched from an iPhone to a Samsung Galaxy Note to try and achieve a few things: - I liked owning an iPad but didn't like carrying it with me in addition to my laptop. - I liked consuming information on my iPad. I wanted to continue consuming information on a device. - I liked trying to make my iPad my sole device for communication (Facebook, twitter, email, IM, Skype.) If I could do it on my iPad I could block out those distractions on my laptop. I live not running any notification stuff on my laptop when coding. I really like being able to come to my communication device and find that there. - the iPhone seemed to small to use as an information consumption device, iPad too big to carry to do the same. If I wanted a physical keyboard on my iPad I could get a MacBook air (which I did and its working great for that purpose) - my iPad became strangely redundant in my use case after getting an Air because I wanted a light device to carry around. Ended up selling it. - The Note fits in my pocket. It's thinner and lighter than an iPhone from everyone who's compared the weight - The Galaxy Note seems huge as a phone but small as a serviceable tablet. The high screen res makes it very usable. I've been varying just the note and my air and its almost starring to feel like I'm where I should be. So, maybe you're looking for an Ultrabook and a 'Phablet'. I'm going to ride this out until the iPhone 5 is available to re-evaluate then.

coob 15y ago
"It's thinner and lighter than an iPhone from everyone who's compared the weight" Apparently these people didn't have a scale, as the iPhone 4S is 140g and the Note is 178g.
- j45 15y ago
  Apparently so, I guess the size of it makes it seem lighter, for its' size. :)

newman314 15y ago

Personally, the tablet form factor is great for consumption. For example, watching movies or casual web browsing. For me, I don't have much use for a tablet on the creation side but suspect it might be of use for specific requirements, people DJ'ing etc. But my mindset has always been: right tool for the job. Trying to use a tablet as a laptop probably will be very frustrating in short order.

JVIDEL 15y ago

The author has a point: many iPad buyers spend a lot of money to work around the limitations of the device. Is not a minority, else there wouldn't be so many keyboard cases for it. I think the problem are all those pundits talking about the "post-PC era". Some are even reinforcing that point with Windows 8, but guess what? That OS is Windows7 with a touch UI layer on top. The only real novelty is the ARM version, in which case we're entering the post-WinTel era (at last!). The iPad beats the crap of any PDA or PMP, but PCs and Macs? Sorry, is just not that versatile. The limitations it has have more to do with battery life and engineering constrains than actual ease-of-use. And APPL patents are rarely made into actual products. Ironically that one from 2008 has far more in common with that slider tablet from ASUS than anything APPL is actually working on.

shimon_e 15y ago

I've gone through the same experience and Microsoft has galp sold me Windows 8. Having watched their keynote at MWC I am quiet impress at what has been done behind the scenes for Windows 8. Some influence from Plan 9/linux can be seen with the new hard drive space management. The new process management seems exciting if it works properly. Microsoft seems to have put some serious engineers behind Windows 8. For that I tip them my hat. I can't wait till I can get the Lenovo Yoga. I'm after a laptop with an IPS screen and I'm after a 13" tablet. I think my setup for next year will be desktop/server + Lenovo Yoga + 8" tablet + 4"+ phone.

dkrich 15y ago

I think this all depends on the user. If you are a person who is largely a consumer of data (reading Twitter, checking email, etc.), the form factor and weight of a tablet is great. If you produce more data (constantly writing emails, code, working with spreadsheets, etc.), you definitely need a laptop.

felixfurtak 15y ago

This reminds me of when laptop screens went glossy. Firstly everyone thought that they liked it. Then they realized that these screens were actually less ergonomic to use due to the increased mirror reflection. Now it is often necessary to pay more for the option of a non-glossy ('anti-glare') screen.

pbreit 15y ago

For the first 8 paragraphs I was thinking "What an idiot!" but then the last two might suggest a great idea: have the iPad switch to MacOS when it is inserted into a keyboard stand.

cwilson 15y ago

While the author continues to scratch his head because he's attempting to fit a square into a circle, I'll continue to use my Macbook Air for actual work, my iPad for couch/bedside/casual consuming, and my iPhone for communicating on the go. You know, what all of the devices are meant to do. Can anyone here actually see Apple releasing a product that has a detachable part? That stands for everything Apple is against when they design products.

parvinsingh 15y ago

The funny thing is that we buy what comes in new, and don't really know the purpose or use of it. iPad to me makes sense if you are an avid browser, and a reader, or type in few short emails a day. First came iPhone, and then came various keyboards which can be blue toothed to the phone. Dude!! the iPhone has a touch keypad, and its not for typing in long emails. Use the gadget for what it is meant for.

snowwrestler 15y ago

With an iPad and keyboard you can turn the iPad vertical for some uses, horizontal for others.

bastian 15y ago

Most sane thing ever said about the iPad.

hef19898 15y ago

Without having read all the 119 comments (sorry for that), it seems to me that this is exactly the kind of device Microsoft is envisioning with Windows 8, isn't it? Unfortunately, up to now you have to choose between an iPad (or something similar) and a full-fledged notebook since netbooks are basicly killed by the former and not powerfull enough for the later. So, as far as I see, there's a gap that can be exploited, why carry and buy in the first place, two devices when one is enough? The only point where I beg to differ with the author is if it's really Apple who debuts a gadget like that. Windows 8 seems, up to know, the most promising OS around that goes into this direction. On the other hand I simply cannot tell what Apple has in the works... Whoever is going to to be first with such a talet - notebook hybrid, it's an intressting development nontheless

padobson 15y ago

I dont think we're discussing real solutions to the mobile computing problem here - just stop gaps. The issue with doing real work on a tab or smartphone is that touch is not a fast or accurate input medium - mice and keyboards are much better suited for it. However, it would be foolish to think this will always be the case. Some combination of our devices recognizing new gestures (grasp, cup, etc.), advances in interface design and voice recognition will eventually disrupt the keyboard and mouse. Since our data can basically be stored in a number of device agnostic ways already via cloud computing, user interfaces for interacting with that data are only going to iterate faster and faster. I think the problem of creating content on the go is going to be solved in the software too soon to warrant a whole product line that merges keyboards and trackpads into our tabets.