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Man are they really going to go through with this?? I’m not even sure what I would do if I was in that situation, where my own government decided it was okay t

Man are they really going to go through with this?? I’m not even sure what I would do if I was in that situation, where my own government decided it was okay to spy on everyone that way. I’d probably be eying the nearest border.

WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
The US could already do that more more than 20 years already, it's nothing new, they are just catching up, crime these days is very well organized and tech savvy, they have to adapt somehow
- DarkmSparks 3y ago
  They all can and already do it afaik. This is just "allowing" them to actually use what gets collected in court instead of having to do so much parallel construction to pretend they can't.
- dgan 3y ago
  Just because your neighbour is doing morally questionable acts, doesn't mean you are getting carte blanche for you. So your first argument doesn't hold. Your second argument might hold but you are not providing anything. I reject the premise that criminals are more tech savvy than regular citizens. I would be more likely to support this law if somehow i was proved it wouldn't be used against peaceful ecologists and Macron protesters.
  - WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
    I'm not saying that All I'm saying is before you complain about your neighbor, clean your own house
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  You in twenty years: “China could already do social scoring more more than 20 years already, it's nothing new, they are just catching up, crime these days is very well organized and tech savvy, they have to adapt somehow”
  - ImHereToVote 3y ago
    You do have a social score if you live in the US. Your credit score is a score on how well you fit as a cog into capitalist society.
    - jonathanstrange 3y ago
      I never understood why Americans are so willing to make debts. The last time I was in debt with my bank is 20 years ago when I was a student and the maximum was 400 Euro.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        Some people like to have a fixed place to live…
vladvasiliu 3y ago
After a quick chat with regular (non-tech) people, they're fine with it. The main reason being that "they can't just do that, they need a judge to sign off on it". They do seem a bit unsurprised that the politicians carved out an exception for themselves ("of course they did"). People here still seem to have faith that the institutions generally work as intended.
- candiodari 3y ago
  No, the politicians and the state have just isolated themselves effectively enough from the riots. The riots are the only thing people can do to protest a number of measures, most seriously the changes to the pensions. These riots (and "riots", not all are violent, and I haven't heard at all of these rioters damaging people) don't affect the state much, but they affect regular people plenty. Torched cars. Destroyed shops. Nonfunctioning services. Police stations are now fortresses, as are most of the government departments. The state has made a definite choice: the hard hand, no help, and absolute priority to their own protection. Normal crime, like theft from stores, what people want the state to work on, is not even prosecuted anymore. You'd have to steal from a big store, in the city center, while an agent is there to have any chance of getting arrested (only youngsters, whom they can arrest indefinitely without evidence and convict even when innocent, ever get persecuted. Of course, the lack of evidence standards in cases against minors raise the question exactly how often these convictions (sorry "protection measures", not convictions) are fabricated. Let's just say the relation between police and youngsters is strained for some reason). People want this to stop, and so they want more protection of the state. The French state, of course, could be said to have been less than effective in stopping these riots and the destruction. People, including representatives, are just point blank assuming this will help the police to be effective. That the police is the cause of the riots does not seem to make a big impression. "Do not shoot people moving away from you in the face" is clearly to much for the police to handle. When you ask people "what else would you want people to do?" there are no answers, because especially nobody wants the obvious option: another long-term national strike. Ironically the state has done nothing but grow. This is the fundamental conflict: everyone has to "save" (especially people who can't), but not the state. With inflation people have to spend ~11% less, effectively. The state has decided their absolutely necessary expenses will not even have to return to pre-pandemic levels. People want protection, that's why this gets approved. But the state, where they believe to get this protection, is the direct cause of most of the problems people face.
grey-area 3y ago
The US and UK do this too, intelligence agencies routinely break the law with no consequences.
- nyokodo 3y ago
  This is an escalation of the intelligence over-reach because the Police are a much more intrusive force on everyday life.
2-718-281-828 3y ago
where do you live that you are so certain this isn't already done?
ovi256 3y ago
> my own government decided it was okay to spy on everyone that way Most have already decided it's okay, and they do it through their intelligence agencies. This is an expansion in scale through LE agencies.
ur-whale 3y ago
You government (wherever that may be save a few places) is very likely already doing it, they're just being very discreet about it instead of making it the law of the land.

WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago

The US could already do that more more than 20 years already, it's nothing new, they are just catching up, crime these days is very well organized and tech savvy, they have to adapt somehow

DarkmSparks 3y ago
They all can and already do it afaik. This is just "allowing" them to actually use what gets collected in court instead of having to do so much parallel construction to pretend they can't.
dgan 3y ago
Just because your neighbour is doing morally questionable acts, doesn't mean you are getting carte blanche for you. So your first argument doesn't hold. Your second argument might hold but you are not providing anything. I reject the premise that criminals are more tech savvy than regular citizens. I would be more likely to support this law if somehow i was proved it wouldn't be used against peaceful ecologists and Macron protesters.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
  I'm not saying that All I'm saying is before you complain about your neighbor, clean your own house
littlestymaar 3y ago
You in twenty years: “China could already do social scoring more more than 20 years already, it's nothing new, they are just catching up, crime these days is very well organized and tech savvy, they have to adapt somehow”
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  You do have a social score if you live in the US. Your credit score is a score on how well you fit as a cog into capitalist society.
  - jonathanstrange 3y ago
    I never understood why Americans are so willing to make debts. The last time I was in debt with my bank is 20 years ago when I was a student and the maximum was 400 Euro.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      Some people like to have a fixed place to live…

vladvasiliu 3y ago

After a quick chat with regular (non-tech) people, they're fine with it. The main reason being that "they can't just do that, they need a judge to sign off on it". They do seem a bit unsurprised that the politicians carved out an exception for themselves ("of course they did"). People here still seem to have faith that the institutions generally work as intended.

candiodari 3y ago
No, the politicians and the state have just isolated themselves effectively enough from the riots. The riots are the only thing people can do to protest a number of measures, most seriously the changes to the pensions. These riots (and "riots", not all are violent, and I haven't heard at all of these rioters damaging people) don't affect the state much, but they affect regular people plenty. Torched cars. Destroyed shops. Nonfunctioning services. Police stations are now fortresses, as are most of the government departments. The state has made a definite choice: the hard hand, no help, and absolute priority to their own protection. Normal crime, like theft from stores, what people want the state to work on, is not even prosecuted anymore. You'd have to steal from a big store, in the city center, while an agent is there to have any chance of getting arrested (only youngsters, whom they can arrest indefinitely without evidence and convict even when innocent, ever get persecuted. Of course, the lack of evidence standards in cases against minors raise the question exactly how often these convictions (sorry "protection measures", not convictions) are fabricated. Let's just say the relation between police and youngsters is strained for some reason). People want this to stop, and so they want more protection of the state. The French state, of course, could be said to have been less than effective in stopping these riots and the destruction. People, including representatives, are just point blank assuming this will help the police to be effective. That the police is the cause of the riots does not seem to make a big impression. "Do not shoot people moving away from you in the face" is clearly to much for the police to handle. When you ask people "what else would you want people to do?" there are no answers, because especially nobody wants the obvious option: another long-term national strike. Ironically the state has done nothing but grow. This is the fundamental conflict: everyone has to "save" (especially people who can't), but not the state. With inflation people have to spend ~11% less, effectively. The state has decided their absolutely necessary expenses will not even have to return to pre-pandemic levels. People want protection, that's why this gets approved. But the state, where they believe to get this protection, is the direct cause of most of the problems people face.

grey-area 3y ago

The US and UK do this too, intelligence agencies routinely break the law with no consequences.

nyokodo 3y ago
This is an escalation of the intelligence over-reach because the Police are a much more intrusive force on everyday life.

2-718-281-828 3y ago

where do you live that you are so certain this isn't already done?

ovi256 3y ago

> my own government decided it was okay to spy on everyone that way Most have already decided it's okay, and they do it through their intelligence agencies. This is an expansion in scale through LE agencies.

ur-whale 3y ago

You government (wherever that may be save a few places) is very likely already doing it, they're just being very discreet about it instead of making it the law of the land.