9 ms·

Air France are complete scumbags. Unfortunately, they are typically the best/fastest option when flying with Delta to Europe.

by Cyph0n 3y ago

kenhwang 3y ago
It's European airlines in general. It's what happens when the only airlines are flag carriers that don't have to worry about competition because their respective governments will keep them in business.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  It’s interesting because you could say the same about Asian carriers and yet Singapore, Cathay Pacific, JAL etc. are all quite proud and beloved.
  - SeenNotHeard 3y ago
    JAL was privatized in 1987.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Air France-KLM, Lufthansa and BA are also privatized.
  - kenhwang 3y ago
    Because they have competent local competition. ANA is very evenly matched with JAL. Same with HKA and Cathay Pacific. Even Taiwan has China Airlines (flag) and EVA.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  I thought I knew what interacting with empathy-less career government drones was like before but I had my eyes truly opened by Air Canada.
  - chrysler 3y ago
    Air Canada was privatized in 1989.
    - unsupp0rted 3y ago
      They’ve converted into empathy-less career non-government drones. One way or another they have no incentive to be anything but terrible to their passengers.
- koyote 3y ago
  Europe has plenty of competition in the airlines space? I believe it's thanks to that competition being mostly low-cost that we've now got a race to the bottom in terms of customer service.
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    Customer service was always terrible in Europe
    - koyote 3y ago
      The US legacy carriers were the first "full service" airlines to bring in extra charges for bags, food, seats etc. Luckily delay compensation exists in the EU, otherwise there would be no difference between them nowadays.
      - ekianjo 3y ago
        Its not just US and Europe in the world. Heard of Asia?
- chrysler 3y ago
  >> It's what happens when the only airlines are flag carriers that don't have to worry about competition because their respective governments will keep them in business. Governments cannot provide aid beyond what a reasonable investor would do. The current European Commissioner for Competition (incumbent since 2014) has had particularly strong focus on that. Several flag carriers that got unreasonable subsidies went bankrupt after they were forced to pay back subsidies. Beyond the European Commission, competitors can challenge approved aid, and they have done so, and they have sometimes won: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-court-backs-ryanair-challenge-klm-tap-state-aid-2021-05-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-court-...
mochomocha 3y ago
They are usually significantly more expensive than United for all SFO<->CDG flights.
- lmm 3y ago
  But significantly lower risk of getting your teeth busted.
ghughes 3y ago
BA is just as bad. The legacy European flag carriers are now all basically Ryanair with a veneer of prestige but the same number of fucks given about customer service excellence.
- cogogo 3y ago
  As a regular traveller I have to laugh and disagree. Can’t deny the level of service for flag carriers has dropped but the level of service with Ryanair is an order of magnitude worse.
  - 76SlashDolphin 3y ago
    And as another regular traveller, I have to disagree with your disagreement. It feels like every other BA and Lufthansa flight I get on has issues while I travel to my hometown with RyanAir (due to necessity) frequently and have only had issues due to weather. From what I've seen online and from acquaintances, RyanAir's quality varies depending on the route while traditional airlines have just in general become worse over time.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  They're actually worse than Ryanair. They have an attitude problem. Ryanair will happily sell you whatever privilege you desire. Priority boarding, seat selection, a nice sandwich. With the legacy airlines you often need to build up points with them first. I much rather fly Ryanair because it's less hassle to get what I need. The problems people have with it usually stem from wanting something but not wanting to pay for it. Bringing too much carryon. Trying to sit together as a family without paying for seat selection and then hassling other passengers on board to move. Stuff like that. Just pay the fee, it's still cheaper than the legacy airline would have been.
housemusicfan 3y ago
I stopped flying AF when they started flying perfectly good albeit temperamental airplanes into the ocean floor. If I wanted to assume that level of risk I'll take my chances on some fartbox submarine. The rigor of their pilot training has since been raised into question.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  IIRC, they've since expanded their training to "the basics of flying a plane without the autopilot holding your hand" and "Here's how to not stall at 35,000 ft, and here's how to recover if you do." The latter part about high-altitude stall recovery was, IIRC, previously absent entirely. https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-way-down-the-crash-of-air-france-flight-447-8a7678c37982 https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-way-down-the-cr...
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    The stall was created by a completely inept pilot in the first place...
  - papertokyo 3y ago
    Air France and Malaysia Airlines are on my 'nope' list and the basic incompetence in AF447 is why.
    - gottorf 3y ago
      MH had a truly awful year that year, but it's hard to blame them for MH370 and certainly not for MH17. Besides that, I think their track record is on the better side among global airlines.
      - sho 3y ago
        Yeah, Malaysian is not a bad airline. Both of those losses were really bad luck that could have, and have, happened to any airline. Not just saying that, I've flown with them twice over the last year and another booked in a few months. After SingAir and maybe Thai, I think they're among the best in the region. LionAir and AirAsia, on the other hand, I wouldn't get on even if their tickets were free...
hfkwer 3y ago
This thread is amazing. I've flown Paris-DC at least ten times over the past three years. (Yes, my carbon footprint is stupid.) Airfrance was systematically the best experience I had. One other company fucked up my connections so bad that the eventually offloaded me to an AF flight. The first company also lost my luggage, and it was airfrance who led the search effort to find it and send it back to me... As for EU companies being shit, I can only laugh. Customer service might be apparently "friendly" in the USA but fuck you if you expect actual compensation for delays or cancellations. There are just zero regulations, so they don't care. They will however smile and call you buddy while explaining to you that they won't do anything and you better not complain again or they'll charge you extra fees. Which I guess has been dubbed as "customer service excellence" elsewhere in this thread.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  I'm surprised the employees of American-run airlines aren't demanding a tip to board the plane... In all seriousness though, I've traveled between the US, EU, and Japan in the last 5 years, and haven't had any problems, luckily. The one place where I see the US really sucks compared to the others, though, is security: going through TSA is not a very nice experience, and having to take your shoes off is pretty stupid. And having to leave the line or throw your (reusable) water bottle away if there's water in it is idiotic, and only the US does that AFAICT. Going through security anyplace else is a much better experience. This of course is not the airlines' fault. The other big difference between these places/flights I saw is what kind of passengers you're sharing the plane with; American passengers are more annoying to be around, in general. But that's not the airlines' fault either.
- Cyph0n 3y ago
  I’m glad your experience has been positive. It only takes one big fuckup to ruin a reputation. In my case, my mother and sister were left stranded in CDG during Covid after being denied boarding to the US (EU travel ban). We were unfortunately not aware that the ban also applied to transits. AF customer service in CDG kept redirecting them and provided absolutely zero assistance. They didn’t even help them book a return flight! In the end, I had to book them a hotel online for the night (in the airport) as well as a return flight to their origin. Obviously, the online complaint I filed with them went straight to the trash, so I was never compensated. The AF agent at the departure point should have picked this up as it was most certainly the first thing they check for when your final destination is the US. I have never had such an experience with any US airline. Even Spirit compensated me for delayed luggage without a fuss. But the absolute worst airline I’ve ever dealt with is Royal Air Maroc. I would probably think twice before flying with them for free..

Air France are complete scumbags. Unfortunately, they are typically the best/fastest option when flying with Delta to Europe.

by Cyph0n 3y ago

Air France are complete scumbags. Unfortunately, they are typically the best/fastest option when flying with Delta to Europe.

kenhwang 3y ago

It's European airlines in general. It's what happens when the only airlines are flag carriers that don't have to worry about competition because their respective governments will keep them in business.

bobthepanda 3y ago
It’s interesting because you could say the same about Asian carriers and yet Singapore, Cathay Pacific, JAL etc. are all quite proud and beloved.
- SeenNotHeard 3y ago
  JAL was privatized in 1987.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    Air France-KLM, Lufthansa and BA are also privatized.
- kenhwang 3y ago
  Because they have competent local competition. ANA is very evenly matched with JAL. Same with HKA and Cathay Pacific. Even Taiwan has China Airlines (flag) and EVA.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
I thought I knew what interacting with empathy-less career government drones was like before but I had my eyes truly opened by Air Canada.
- chrysler 3y ago
  Air Canada was privatized in 1989.
  - unsupp0rted 3y ago
    They’ve converted into empathy-less career non-government drones. One way or another they have no incentive to be anything but terrible to their passengers.
koyote 3y ago
Europe has plenty of competition in the airlines space? I believe it's thanks to that competition being mostly low-cost that we've now got a race to the bottom in terms of customer service.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Customer service was always terrible in Europe
  - koyote 3y ago
    The US legacy carriers were the first "full service" airlines to bring in extra charges for bags, food, seats etc. Luckily delay compensation exists in the EU, otherwise there would be no difference between them nowadays.
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      Its not just US and Europe in the world. Heard of Asia?
chrysler 3y ago
>> It's what happens when the only airlines are flag carriers that don't have to worry about competition because their respective governments will keep them in business. Governments cannot provide aid beyond what a reasonable investor would do. The current European Commissioner for Competition (incumbent since 2014) has had particularly strong focus on that. Several flag carriers that got unreasonable subsidies went bankrupt after they were forced to pay back subsidies. Beyond the European Commission, competitors can challenge approved aid, and they have done so, and they have sometimes won: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-court-backs-ryanair-challenge-klm-tap-state-aid-2021-05-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-court-...

mochomocha 3y ago

They are usually significantly more expensive than United for all SFO<->CDG flights.

lmm 3y ago
But significantly lower risk of getting your teeth busted.

ghughes 3y ago

BA is just as bad. The legacy European flag carriers are now all basically Ryanair with a veneer of prestige but the same number of fucks given about customer service excellence.

cogogo 3y ago
As a regular traveller I have to laugh and disagree. Can’t deny the level of service for flag carriers has dropped but the level of service with Ryanair is an order of magnitude worse.
- 76SlashDolphin 3y ago
  And as another regular traveller, I have to disagree with your disagreement. It feels like every other BA and Lufthansa flight I get on has issues while I travel to my hometown with RyanAir (due to necessity) frequently and have only had issues due to weather. From what I've seen online and from acquaintances, RyanAir's quality varies depending on the route while traditional airlines have just in general become worse over time.
wkat4242 3y ago
They're actually worse than Ryanair. They have an attitude problem. Ryanair will happily sell you whatever privilege you desire. Priority boarding, seat selection, a nice sandwich. With the legacy airlines you often need to build up points with them first. I much rather fly Ryanair because it's less hassle to get what I need. The problems people have with it usually stem from wanting something but not wanting to pay for it. Bringing too much carryon. Trying to sit together as a family without paying for seat selection and then hassling other passengers on board to move. Stuff like that. Just pay the fee, it's still cheaper than the legacy airline would have been.

housemusicfan 3y ago

I stopped flying AF when they started flying perfectly good albeit temperamental airplanes into the ocean floor. If I wanted to assume that level of risk I'll take my chances on some fartbox submarine. The rigor of their pilot training has since been raised into question.

EdwardDiego 3y ago
IIRC, they've since expanded their training to "the basics of flying a plane without the autopilot holding your hand" and "Here's how to not stall at 35,000 ft, and here's how to recover if you do." The latter part about high-altitude stall recovery was, IIRC, previously absent entirely. https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-way-down-the-crash-of-air-france-flight-447-8a7678c37982 https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-way-down-the-cr...
- ekianjo 3y ago
  The stall was created by a completely inept pilot in the first place...
- papertokyo 3y ago
  Air France and Malaysia Airlines are on my 'nope' list and the basic incompetence in AF447 is why.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    MH had a truly awful year that year, but it's hard to blame them for MH370 and certainly not for MH17. Besides that, I think their track record is on the better side among global airlines.
    - sho 3y ago
      Yeah, Malaysian is not a bad airline. Both of those losses were really bad luck that could have, and have, happened to any airline. Not just saying that, I've flown with them twice over the last year and another booked in a few months. After SingAir and maybe Thai, I think they're among the best in the region. LionAir and AirAsia, on the other hand, I wouldn't get on even if their tickets were free...

hfkwer 3y ago

This thread is amazing. I've flown Paris-DC at least ten times over the past three years. (Yes, my carbon footprint is stupid.) Airfrance was systematically the best experience I had. One other company fucked up my connections so bad that the eventually offloaded me to an AF flight. The first company also lost my luggage, and it was airfrance who led the search effort to find it and send it back to me... As for EU companies being shit, I can only laugh. Customer service might be apparently "friendly" in the USA but fuck you if you expect actual compensation for delays or cancellations. There are just zero regulations, so they don't care. They will however smile and call you buddy while explaining to you that they won't do anything and you better not complain again or they'll charge you extra fees. Which I guess has been dubbed as "customer service excellence" elsewhere in this thread.

midoridensha 3y ago
I'm surprised the employees of American-run airlines aren't demanding a tip to board the plane... In all seriousness though, I've traveled between the US, EU, and Japan in the last 5 years, and haven't had any problems, luckily. The one place where I see the US really sucks compared to the others, though, is security: going through TSA is not a very nice experience, and having to take your shoes off is pretty stupid. And having to leave the line or throw your (reusable) water bottle away if there's water in it is idiotic, and only the US does that AFAICT. Going through security anyplace else is a much better experience. This of course is not the airlines' fault. The other big difference between these places/flights I saw is what kind of passengers you're sharing the plane with; American passengers are more annoying to be around, in general. But that's not the airlines' fault either.
Cyph0n 3y ago
I’m glad your experience has been positive. It only takes one big fuckup to ruin a reputation. In my case, my mother and sister were left stranded in CDG during Covid after being denied boarding to the US (EU travel ban). We were unfortunately not aware that the ban also applied to transits. AF customer service in CDG kept redirecting them and provided absolutely zero assistance. They didn’t even help them book a return flight! In the end, I had to book them a hotel online for the night (in the airport) as well as a return flight to their origin. Obviously, the online complaint I filed with them went straight to the trash, so I was never compensated. The AF agent at the departure point should have picked this up as it was most certainly the first thing they check for when your final destination is the US. I have never had such an experience with any US airline. Even Spirit compensated me for delayed luggage without a fuss. But the absolute worst airline I’ve ever dealt with is Royal Air Maroc. I would probably think twice before flying with them for free..