3 ms·

Are there enough rich people in Spain to redistribute and give everyone aged 18+ €20k?

thegrim33 3y ago
Well, if just counting all the billionaires [1], they have a total net worth of ~135 billion, and there's currently ~47MM people in Spain [2], so if you sent out the stormtroopers and forcefully confiscated every last penny of net worth from all the billionaires, and redistributed it equally, each person would get a one-time payment of ~2,800. I'd theorize that the resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than 2,800 per person, but hey, maybe not. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_by_net_worth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_b... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain
- jahnu 3y ago
  > ~47MM people in Spain … and redistributed it equally I know the OP asked that but isn’t this really about future people turning 18 which would be massively fewer people and roll along every year?
- buffington 3y ago
  > I'd theorize that the resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than 2,800 per person I wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on this idea more. While I'm not saying I agree with the notion of redistributing wealth in the way you describe, I am skeptical of the "destruction" part. What does that look like to you, and why would it lead to that?
  - chii 3y ago
    > I am skeptical of the "destruction" part you only need to look in the past to see how collectivization in communist countries have fared to see what sort of results could be expected when you confiscate wealth from people.
germandiago 3y ago
No. And every spanish is in 35,000 eur debt.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  Private debt is actually around $90k per inhabitant. But somehow this figure (private debt being more than 200% of GDP) is generally overlooked in favor of discussion about public debt…
  - G234323 3y ago
    Because private debt is each individual responsibility. Public debt is the money of all tax payers
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      When a significant proportion of private debt is housing, it's the entire society's problem. (And the subprimes crisis illustrated the problem in a very obvious fashion).
    - germandiago 3y ago
      Exactly. It does not affect me directly. I do not have private debt. The public debt is the fact that someone decided that you will pay for something and get in debt through taxes. Out of control and totally unfair.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        Ironically, a significant part of public debt we have today still comes from the aftermath of the last private debt crisis we had: first as a (too timid) response to the 2008 banking crisis, then as the result of the economic crisis that ensued. When an entire society is built on private debt, it doesn't matter if you don't own debt by yourself, this is a society problem, and thus it becomes your problem. Also, unless you are super wealthy (and should be taxed more) it's unlikely that you'll stay debt-free for your entire life.
Tade0 3y ago
[flagged]
TacticalCoder 3y ago
And let's not forget that Spain is already taxing the rich like crazy. As in: insane crazy. In quite some Spanish regions (not in Madrid, where the tax exists technically but is reduced by 100% so far) there's a yearly tax on wealth that can go as high as 3.5% of your entire net worth. To be paid. Yearly. You're worth more than 1.3m? Anything above that is already taxed at 1.3 to 1.6% yearly. You're really rich? Be ready to gift 3.5% of your wealth yearly to the spanish state. There's one million millionaire in Spain, already taxed like mad. I don't know if they could be taxed even more to give that 20K bonus. One million millionaire to give 20 K to how many million of people? There are, what, about one million people turning 18 each year in Spain? (quick ballpark computation, one official source seems to say its closer to 500 K people turning 18 each year). So let's take 500 K people turning 18 each year and one million millionaire. This means taking 10 K EUR, yearly, from each millionaire, to hand over to the 18 years old. Sounds a bit unrealistic to me but then I'm not a politician begging for votes in the upcoming spanish elections.
bassman9000 3y ago
No. This is middle class taxing. There's never enough rich people to fund these kind of initiatives, and specially not in Spain.

Well, if just counting all the billionaires [1], they have a total net worth of ~135 billion, and there's currently ~47MM people in Spain [2], so if you sent out the stormtroopers and forcefully confiscated every last penny of net worth from all the billionaires, and redistributed it equally, each person would get a one-time payment of ~2,800. I'd theorize that the resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than 2,800 per person, but hey, maybe not. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_by_net_worth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_b... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain

jahnu 3y ago
> ~47MM people in Spain … and redistributed it equally I know the OP asked that but isn’t this really about future people turning 18 which would be massively fewer people and roll along every year?
buffington 3y ago
> I'd theorize that the resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than 2,800 per person I wonder if you wouldn't mind expanding on this idea more. While I'm not saying I agree with the notion of redistributing wealth in the way you describe, I am skeptical of the "destruction" part. What does that look like to you, and why would it lead to that?
- chii 3y ago
  > I am skeptical of the "destruction" part you only need to look in the past to see how collectivization in communist countries have fared to see what sort of results could be expected when you confiscate wealth from people.

germandiago 3y ago

No. And every spanish is in 35,000 eur debt.

littlestymaar 3y ago
Private debt is actually around $90k per inhabitant. But somehow this figure (private debt being more than 200% of GDP) is generally overlooked in favor of discussion about public debt…
- G234323 3y ago
  Because private debt is each individual responsibility. Public debt is the money of all tax payers
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    When a significant proportion of private debt is housing, it's the entire society's problem. (And the subprimes crisis illustrated the problem in a very obvious fashion).
  - germandiago 3y ago
    Exactly. It does not affect me directly. I do not have private debt. The public debt is the fact that someone decided that you will pay for something and get in debt through taxes. Out of control and totally unfair.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      Ironically, a significant part of public debt we have today still comes from the aftermath of the last private debt crisis we had: first as a (too timid) response to the 2008 banking crisis, then as the result of the economic crisis that ensued. When an entire society is built on private debt, it doesn't matter if you don't own debt by yourself, this is a society problem, and thus it becomes your problem. Also, unless you are super wealthy (and should be taxed more) it's unlikely that you'll stay debt-free for your entire life.

Tade0 3y ago

[flagged]

TacticalCoder 3y ago

And let's not forget that Spain is already taxing the rich like crazy. As in: insane crazy. In quite some Spanish regions (not in Madrid, where the tax exists technically but is reduced by 100% so far) there's a yearly tax on wealth that can go as high as 3.5% of your entire net worth. To be paid. Yearly. You're worth more than 1.3m? Anything above that is already taxed at 1.3 to 1.6% yearly. You're really rich? Be ready to gift 3.5% of your wealth yearly to the spanish state. There's one million millionaire in Spain, already taxed like mad. I don't know if they could be taxed even more to give that 20K bonus. One million millionaire to give 20 K to how many million of people? There are, what, about one million people turning 18 each year in Spain? (quick ballpark computation, one official source seems to say its closer to 500 K people turning 18 each year). So let's take 500 K people turning 18 each year and one million millionaire. This means taking 10 K EUR, yearly, from each millionaire, to hand over to the 18 years old. Sounds a bit unrealistic to me but then I'm not a politician begging for votes in the upcoming spanish elections.

bassman9000 3y ago

No. This is middle class taxing. There's never enough rich people to fund these kind of initiatives, and specially not in Spain.