7 ms·

We're much further along in the liberation of women and girls than it may appear

13 points by CKP_againing 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
Is this transphobia masquerading as feminism? Oh, "a man who claimed to be a woman". Yes, it is. Why is nonsensical bigotry posted here?
- Zandikar 3y ago
  Agreed, what is this bigoted bullshit on hackernews, we for real right now?
jzebedee 3y ago
Yes, a lot of words that amount to the sophistry of the "gender critical" (TERFistry?) and a status report on their bigoted agenda. The author clearly states that they hate that the Biden administration made it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity. That's it. That's their gripe.
steve_avery 3y ago
I have vouched for this article because it blew my mind. I had no idea that there are left-leaning, feminist-identifying women who held such views. I wish this article laid out a more substantive foundation for why the author holds their views. I tried to look into the book she mentioned, and I do worry that there's a bit of a echo-chamber effect going on here, because somehow the book was featured by Tucker Carlson? [1] But it seems that there's a lot of passion here about protecting women-only spaces. I can respect that. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/59589019 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/59589019
- woooooo 3y ago
  Thank you, I was afraid to post the same thing. Definitely transphobic at points but also valid at other points and still a very interesting read.
- Zandikar 3y ago
  > I had no idea that there are left-leaning, feminist-identifying women who held such views. They're among the most vocal and out there group among the feminists, they're hard to miss. > because somehow the book was featured by Tucker Carlson? That should be a big clue. These aren't feminists looking out for other women, these are feminists looking for ways to elevate themselves at everyone else's expense. Frankly it blows my mind to see this bigotry on hackernews, yet here we are.
  - woooooo 3y ago
    How would you handle the prison situation? Convicted formerly-male rapist, now identifies as female. Which prison do they go to? Yes it's a cherry-picked example but it's also a test of absolute statements about bigotry. Maybe there's nuance.
    - jl6 3y ago
      To be clear, nobody is “formerly-male”. Gender reassignment through hormones and surgery doesn’t actually change sex. The answer here depends on what you think the purpose of segregated prisons is. If you think it’s to reduce the risk of females being attacked by males (because the overwhelming majority of sexual assault is done by males to females), then males (regardless of gender) must go to male prisons.
      - woooooo 3y ago
        Your second paragraph is a total dodge. I'm tempted to characterize it as lacking male-gendered terms.
        jl6 3y ago
        Are you clear on the difference between sex and gender? Some people think prisons are supposed to be segregated by sex, with gender being less relevant to the purpose of protecting females.
        3y ago
- jl6 3y ago
  This is called gender-critical feminism, a predominantly left-liberal movement that left-progressives in the US don’t distinguish from right-wing anti-trans people like Tucker Carlson. In the UK there is a clearer demarcation between being gender-critical and being anti-trans. It is based on the idea that violence/harassment/oppression of women is rooted in sex (biology), not gender (social roles) and therefore that sex is the more important and meaningful way to define and protect womanhood, and thus that “woman” means “adult human female”, and is not something that can be identified into.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - snoooowflakes 3y ago
      [flagged]
- CKP_againing 3y ago
  I think you may find this article of interest, it's a decent backgrounder to this point of view, and hopefully gives insight into why many left-leaning feminist women have adopted this view or are moving towards it: https://hollylawford-smith.org/what-is-gender-critical-feminism-and-why-is-everyone-so-mad-about-it https://hollylawford-smith.org/what-is-gender-critical-femin... Holly Lawford-Smith's book Gender-Critical Feminism expands on this in much detail. Kara Dansky's book, that you cited, is an enlightening read too, with more of a focus on US law and politics, as her linked blog post is. If you would prefer a more philosophical treatment of this topic, may I also recommend Kathleen Stock's work Material Girls.
- MissTake 3y ago
  I flagged this because not only is it a transphobic hit piece, it has nothing to do with tech, and everything to do with pushing an agenda.
- TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
  Transphobic "feminists" will sometimes claim to be left-leaning, but the company they choose to keep betrays them.
- e63f67dd-065b 3y ago
  How do you vouch for posts? I didn't know that was a feature, and I have 900 karma which should be enough, but it doesn't show up the next to the flag (https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/two-hn-announcements/ https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/two-hn-announcements/). The flags make sense though, it's too explicitly political and has opinions many on the site don't like.

13 points by CKP_againing 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Is this transphobia masquerading as feminism? Oh, "a man who claimed to be a woman". Yes, it is. Why is nonsensical bigotry posted here?

Zandikar 3y ago
Agreed, what is this bigoted bullshit on hackernews, we for real right now?

jzebedee 3y ago

Yes, a lot of words that amount to the sophistry of the "gender critical" (TERFistry?) and a status report on their bigoted agenda. The author clearly states that they hate that the Biden administration made it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity. That's it. That's their gripe.

steve_avery 3y ago

I have vouched for this article because it blew my mind. I had no idea that there are left-leaning, feminist-identifying women who held such views. I wish this article laid out a more substantive foundation for why the author holds their views. I tried to look into the book she mentioned, and I do worry that there's a bit of a echo-chamber effect going on here, because somehow the book was featured by Tucker Carlson? [1] But it seems that there's a lot of passion here about protecting women-only spaces. I can respect that. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/59589019 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/59589019

woooooo 3y ago
Thank you, I was afraid to post the same thing. Definitely transphobic at points but also valid at other points and still a very interesting read.
Zandikar 3y ago
> I had no idea that there are left-leaning, feminist-identifying women who held such views. They're among the most vocal and out there group among the feminists, they're hard to miss. > because somehow the book was featured by Tucker Carlson? That should be a big clue. These aren't feminists looking out for other women, these are feminists looking for ways to elevate themselves at everyone else's expense. Frankly it blows my mind to see this bigotry on hackernews, yet here we are.
- woooooo 3y ago
  How would you handle the prison situation? Convicted formerly-male rapist, now identifies as female. Which prison do they go to? Yes it's a cherry-picked example but it's also a test of absolute statements about bigotry. Maybe there's nuance.
  - jl6 3y ago
    To be clear, nobody is “formerly-male”. Gender reassignment through hormones and surgery doesn’t actually change sex. The answer here depends on what you think the purpose of segregated prisons is. If you think it’s to reduce the risk of females being attacked by males (because the overwhelming majority of sexual assault is done by males to females), then males (regardless of gender) must go to male prisons.
    - woooooo 3y ago
      Your second paragraph is a total dodge. I'm tempted to characterize it as lacking male-gendered terms.
      - jl6 3y ago
        Are you clear on the difference between sex and gender? Some people think prisons are supposed to be segregated by sex, with gender being less relevant to the purpose of protecting females.
        3y ago
jl6 3y ago
This is called gender-critical feminism, a predominantly left-liberal movement that left-progressives in the US don’t distinguish from right-wing anti-trans people like Tucker Carlson. In the UK there is a clearer demarcation between being gender-critical and being anti-trans. It is based on the idea that violence/harassment/oppression of women is rooted in sex (biology), not gender (social roles) and therefore that sex is the more important and meaningful way to define and protect womanhood, and thus that “woman” means “adult human female”, and is not something that can be identified into.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - snoooowflakes 3y ago
    [flagged]
CKP_againing 3y ago
I think you may find this article of interest, it's a decent backgrounder to this point of view, and hopefully gives insight into why many left-leaning feminist women have adopted this view or are moving towards it: https://hollylawford-smith.org/what-is-gender-critical-feminism-and-why-is-everyone-so-mad-about-it https://hollylawford-smith.org/what-is-gender-critical-femin... Holly Lawford-Smith's book Gender-Critical Feminism expands on this in much detail. Kara Dansky's book, that you cited, is an enlightening read too, with more of a focus on US law and politics, as her linked blog post is. If you would prefer a more philosophical treatment of this topic, may I also recommend Kathleen Stock's work Material Girls.
MissTake 3y ago
I flagged this because not only is it a transphobic hit piece, it has nothing to do with tech, and everything to do with pushing an agenda.
TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
Transphobic "feminists" will sometimes claim to be left-leaning, but the company they choose to keep betrays them.
e63f67dd-065b 3y ago
How do you vouch for posts? I didn't know that was a feature, and I have 900 karma which should be enough, but it doesn't show up the next to the flag (https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/two-hn-announcements/ https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/two-hn-announcements/). The flags make sense though, it's too explicitly political and has opinions many on the site don't like.