9 ms·

Sacramento Sheriff sharing license plate reader data with anti-abortion states

117 points by diydsp 3y ago

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> The Sacramento County Sheriff’s Office isn’t the only one sharing that data; in May, EFF released a report showing that 71 law enforcement agencies in 22 California counties — including Sacramento County — were sharing such data. The practice is in violation of a 2015 law that states “a (California law enforcement) agency shall not sell, share, or transfer ALPR information, except to another (California law enforcement) agency, and only as otherwise permitted by law.” https://www.eff.org/press/releases/civil-liberties-groups-demand-california-police-stop-sharing-drivers-location-data https://www.eff.org/press/releases/civil-liberties-groups-de... https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_1798.90.55#:~:text=(b),as%20otherwise%20permitted%20by%20law https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_1798....
- sitkack 3y ago
  The sheriff needs to go to jail.
  - ryaneager 3y ago
    Hahaha. That’s a good one.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    https://oag.ca.gov/contact/faqs https://oag.ca.gov/contact/faqs
- ang_cire 3y ago
  What do people expect? ACAB.
mikece 3y ago
A friend of mine is a prosecutor in a major metro and said they routinely issue tracking requests for a given license plate and that PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking, not state or local agencies. These private companies will sell the info to anyone who is willing to pay for it and for any reason at all. This isn't a problem confined to the abortion debate, it's a problem connected to any and all issues you might care about.
- alexpotato 3y ago
  > PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking My family recently went to an amusement park. As we drove in, I saw what looked like a license plate reader camera on the inbound gate to the parking. On the way out, we pull up to pay at the automated gate kiosk and my wife says: "Oh wow! How did they know how long we've been here??" I answered: "Because they scanned our plate on the way in and now when we pulled into the exit gate" Part of me thought this was cool (automation!), part of me thought "well, there is no expectation of privacy since we are in public" and part of me thought "this is very big brother but done by private companies"
  - theptip 3y ago
    I see absolutely nothing wrong or big-brother about such a system if the data stays on premises only until you leave (or maybe until the end of the day to give you in-and-out pricing privileges). On the other hand, if the data is being sold to a data aggregator that is troubling. We see lots of surprising things like this, for example weather apps selling your location data. This is why we need better data protection rights. GDPR has a lot of good ideas (though implementation was painful). CCPA should be strengthened. Ideally we’d get a federal law limiting data collection without consent. (The optimist in me thinks this could be bipartisan.)
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      Agreed, if we knew the data was 100% confined to the theme park and was impossible to escape, it's absolutely useful with no threat to personhood.
- rasz 3y ago
  All the repo guys are running LPR gear on their rigs. Lot of taxi fleets too.
  - mikece 3y ago
    And all of them should be criminally charged for stalking.
brightlancer 3y ago
Awful click-bait headline. The sheriff dep't isn't doing this _specifically_ with "anti-abortion states", they're doing this broadly with other states "including Alabama, Oklahoma and Texas". Not listed in the article is that they also shared with Arizona, Indiana, Louisiana, Nevada, Oregon, Tennessee, Illinois, Mississippi, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Michigan, Utah, Wisconsin, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico, New York (State), North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Ohio, and probably some others that weren't listed. Is this bad? Absolutely. Is this specifically related to abortion? No.
- watwut 3y ago
  The plates sharing with anti-abortion is definitely worth emphasis, because it carries a lot more risk to a lot more people. And potentially causes a lot more harm.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  This will however play well with their local audience. I lived in Sacramento for 13 years, its a pretty liberal town. If you wanna get people upset about some stuff, there are ways to get them hooked in by a headline or sign etc. like this. Its shoddy from a journalism perspective, but the Sacbee does put out some good reporting otherwise, however they tailor headlines to the intended audience, thats for sure
  - tverbeure 3y ago
    Is it shoddy for a newspaper article to spell out some particular consequences of a general policy?
    - no_wizard 3y ago
      No, but the intention of the headline is definitely a grabber, and I think many (myself included) would prefer more neutral toned headlines, or maybe ones that word it so its more clear that its highlighting in part whats happening, IE: Sheriff Shares License Plate With Other States, Includes Abortion Related Travel May be more fair while still raising the issue
hbarka 3y ago
Maybe they can do something with auto thefts. Use image recognition to match the car to the registered vehicle. https://abc7news.com/amp/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-break-ins-bay-area-what-is/12181548/ https://abc7news.com/amp/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-c...
- akira2501 3y ago
  This is already done. Highway patrol will often have units that scan plates around them, and if a stolen vehicle is identified, the mobile terminal in the cruiser immediately alerts the officer to the hit.
  - projektfu 3y ago
    Yes but do they also recognize clean plates on the wrong chassis?
    - akira2501 3y ago
      If those plates are reported stolen, then yes. Are you suggesting we shouldn't use it or benefit from it because an aggressive criminal would still get past it?
      - projektfu 3y ago
        I just read the GP as saying that a smart camera could look at a plate, notice it is on the wrong make of car, and alert the officer, rather than just looking for stolen cars listed under that plate.
        hbarka 3y ago
        Exactly this. Organized auto theft rings go back and forth on the bridge with other valid plates (stolen) on their (also stolen) cars. These scanners can alert CHP if there was a chassis mismatch, if the software has this algorithm. https://abc7news.com/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-break-ins-bay-area-what-is/12181548/ https://abc7news.com/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-b...
aziaziazi 3y ago
https://archive.is/qoXuK https://archive.is/qoXuK
aziaziazi 3y ago
> use it to prosecute someone for seeking an abortion. the word “prosecute” intrigues me, how does this work / what people fear? Not familiar with US states legal system… 1. Resident of a state A should follow A’s law even when traveling to state B. That seems weird to me as states/countries usually don’t bind you to their law when you leave their borders. They do it (see “intelligence” agencies) but this seems exceptions. My country won’t send James Bond to catch me smoking pot in South Africa. 2. Resident of state A get an abortion in state B, then sherif of state A got you on their list and wait you at the border and find a legal but absurd way to piss you off as a punishment, eg: waiting for you to double-park where you shouldn’t. Not a good exemple -as a biker I hate cars stationing on my lane- but you got the point. 3. Same as 2. but the sherif lie, eg: “you crossed that red light” (you didn’t). I guess sherif word is more “trustworthy” that yours…
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  Generally a you can't criminalize an action outside your area of jurisdiction.
  - slg 3y ago
    Seems like the Supreme Court of the US will have to eventually decide how general that "generally" means because states are certainly trying[1]. [1] - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/idaho-most-extreme-anti-abortion-state-law-restricts-travel-rcna78225 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/idaho-most-extr...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- x3n0ph3n3 3y ago
  > Resident of a state A should follow A’s law even when traveling to state B. That seems weird to me as states/countries usually don’t bind you to their law when you leave their borders. They do it (see “intelligence” agencies) but this seems exceptions. My country won’t send James Bond to catch me smoking pot in South Africa. Funny enough, South Korea has explicit laws prohibiting citizens from consuming drugs in other countries, even when it's legal in those countries. [1] I don't think this would pass muster under the U.S. Constitution, though. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_South_Korea#Koreans_abroad_using_drugs_in_a_country_where_it_is_legal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_South_Korea#Kor...

117 points by diydsp 3y ago

> The Sacramento County Sheriff’s Office isn’t the only one sharing that data; in May, EFF released a report showing that 71 law enforcement agencies in 22 California counties — including Sacramento County — were sharing such data. The practice is in violation of a 2015 law that states “a (California law enforcement) agency shall not sell, share, or transfer ALPR information, except to another (California law enforcement) agency, and only as otherwise permitted by law.” https://www.eff.org/press/releases/civil-liberties-groups-demand-california-police-stop-sharing-drivers-location-data https://www.eff.org/press/releases/civil-liberties-groups-de... https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_1798.90.55#:~:text=(b),as%20otherwise%20permitted%20by%20law https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_1798....

sitkack 3y ago
The sheriff needs to go to jail.
- ryaneager 3y ago
  Hahaha. That’s a good one.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://oag.ca.gov/contact/faqs https://oag.ca.gov/contact/faqs
ang_cire 3y ago
What do people expect? ACAB.

mikece 3y ago

A friend of mine is a prosecutor in a major metro and said they routinely issue tracking requests for a given license plate and that PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking, not state or local agencies. These private companies will sell the info to anyone who is willing to pay for it and for any reason at all. This isn't a problem confined to the abortion debate, it's a problem connected to any and all issues you might care about.

alexpotato 3y ago
> PRIVATE COMPANIES are doing 75%+ of the tracking My family recently went to an amusement park. As we drove in, I saw what looked like a license plate reader camera on the inbound gate to the parking. On the way out, we pull up to pay at the automated gate kiosk and my wife says: "Oh wow! How did they know how long we've been here??" I answered: "Because they scanned our plate on the way in and now when we pulled into the exit gate" Part of me thought this was cool (automation!), part of me thought "well, there is no expectation of privacy since we are in public" and part of me thought "this is very big brother but done by private companies"
- theptip 3y ago
  I see absolutely nothing wrong or big-brother about such a system if the data stays on premises only until you leave (or maybe until the end of the day to give you in-and-out pricing privileges). On the other hand, if the data is being sold to a data aggregator that is troubling. We see lots of surprising things like this, for example weather apps selling your location data. This is why we need better data protection rights. GDPR has a lot of good ideas (though implementation was painful). CCPA should be strengthened. Ideally we’d get a federal law limiting data collection without consent. (The optimist in me thinks this could be bipartisan.)
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Agreed, if we knew the data was 100% confined to the theme park and was impossible to escape, it's absolutely useful with no threat to personhood.
rasz 3y ago
All the repo guys are running LPR gear on their rigs. Lot of taxi fleets too.
- mikece 3y ago
  And all of them should be criminally charged for stalking.

brightlancer 3y ago

Awful click-bait headline. The sheriff dep't isn't doing this _specifically_ with "anti-abortion states", they're doing this broadly with other states "including Alabama, Oklahoma and Texas". Not listed in the article is that they also shared with Arizona, Indiana, Louisiana, Nevada, Oregon, Tennessee, Illinois, Mississippi, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Michigan, Utah, Wisconsin, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico, New York (State), North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Ohio, and probably some others that weren't listed. Is this bad? Absolutely. Is this specifically related to abortion? No.

watwut 3y ago
The plates sharing with anti-abortion is definitely worth emphasis, because it carries a lot more risk to a lot more people. And potentially causes a lot more harm.
no_wizard 3y ago
This will however play well with their local audience. I lived in Sacramento for 13 years, its a pretty liberal town. If you wanna get people upset about some stuff, there are ways to get them hooked in by a headline or sign etc. like this. Its shoddy from a journalism perspective, but the Sacbee does put out some good reporting otherwise, however they tailor headlines to the intended audience, thats for sure
- tverbeure 3y ago
  Is it shoddy for a newspaper article to spell out some particular consequences of a general policy?
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    No, but the intention of the headline is definitely a grabber, and I think many (myself included) would prefer more neutral toned headlines, or maybe ones that word it so its more clear that its highlighting in part whats happening, IE: Sheriff Shares License Plate With Other States, Includes Abortion Related Travel May be more fair while still raising the issue

hbarka 3y ago

Maybe they can do something with auto thefts. Use image recognition to match the car to the registered vehicle. https://abc7news.com/amp/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-break-ins-bay-area-what-is/12181548/ https://abc7news.com/amp/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-c...

akira2501 3y ago
This is already done. Highway patrol will often have units that scan plates around them, and if a stolen vehicle is identified, the mobile terminal in the cruiser immediately alerts the officer to the hit.
- projektfu 3y ago
  Yes but do they also recognize clean plates on the wrong chassis?
  - akira2501 3y ago
    If those plates are reported stolen, then yes. Are you suggesting we shouldn't use it or benefit from it because an aggressive criminal would still get past it?
    - projektfu 3y ago
      I just read the GP as saying that a smart camera could look at a plate, notice it is on the wrong make of car, and alert the officer, rather than just looking for stolen cars listed under that plate.
      - hbarka 3y ago
        Exactly this. Organized auto theft rings go back and forth on the bridge with other valid plates (stolen) on their (also stolen) cars. These scanners can alert CHP if there was a chassis mismatch, if the software has this algorithm. https://abc7news.com/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-break-ins-bay-area-what-is/12181548/ https://abc7news.com/license-plate-thefts-cold-plating-car-b...

aziaziazi 3y ago

https://archive.is/qoXuK https://archive.is/qoXuK

aziaziazi 3y ago

> use it to prosecute someone for seeking an abortion. the word “prosecute” intrigues me, how does this work / what people fear? Not familiar with US states legal system… 1. Resident of a state A should follow A’s law even when traveling to state B. That seems weird to me as states/countries usually don’t bind you to their law when you leave their borders. They do it (see “intelligence” agencies) but this seems exceptions. My country won’t send James Bond to catch me smoking pot in South Africa. 2. Resident of state A get an abortion in state B, then sherif of state A got you on their list and wait you at the border and find a legal but absurd way to piss you off as a punishment, eg: waiting for you to double-park where you shouldn’t. Not a good exemple -as a biker I hate cars stationing on my lane- but you got the point. 3. Same as 2. but the sherif lie, eg: “you crossed that red light” (you didn’t). I guess sherif word is more “trustworthy” that yours…

kayodelycaon 3y ago
Generally a you can't criminalize an action outside your area of jurisdiction.
- slg 3y ago
  Seems like the Supreme Court of the US will have to eventually decide how general that "generally" means because states are certainly trying[1]. [1] - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/idaho-most-extreme-anti-abortion-state-law-restricts-travel-rcna78225 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/idaho-most-extr...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
x3n0ph3n3 3y ago
> Resident of a state A should follow A’s law even when traveling to state B. That seems weird to me as states/countries usually don’t bind you to their law when you leave their borders. They do it (see “intelligence” agencies) but this seems exceptions. My country won’t send James Bond to catch me smoking pot in South Africa. Funny enough, South Korea has explicit laws prohibiting citizens from consuming drugs in other countries, even when it's legal in those countries. [1] I don't think this would pass muster under the U.S. Constitution, though. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_South_Korea#Koreans_abroad_using_drugs_in_a_country_where_it_is_legal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_South_Korea#Kor...