6 ms·

Paint Drip People

70 points by KentBeck 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
donkeyd 3y ago
Thanks for sharing! I often call myself a flat bar, because I'm missing the one specialization for the T-shape. This description of the 'paint drip person' hit really close to home, so I think that that's what I'll call myself in the future.
- fsniper 3y ago
  This also resonates with me. That's one of the reasons I am not on the development side of things. In the systems side you need to know some of everything.
  - donkeyd 3y ago
    > I am not on the development side The same, pretty much. I moved into architecture and having such broad knowledge really helps with being able to talk to pretty much anyone.
- throwway120385 3y ago
  A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.
jhinra 3y ago
This analogy seems like a stretch. An artist that has paint dripping from their strokes strikes me as sloppy. Is this analogy really tied to a single specific type of painting?
- riebschlager 3y ago
  I believe the analogy is more a reference to the shape of paint drips as seen in the image on the page. The T model of skills has a single "descender" that represents deep knowledge in a single topic, whereas paint drips represent varying depths of knowledge in several areas.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    Yeah but if you don't have attached article the first thing I'm gonna think about is "sloppy" or "this person is into boring tasks like watching paint dry"
  - Applejinx 3y ago
    It's a good enough analogy to go deeper than that. The T model is an intentional, planned descender. The paint drip thing implies that you don't know which drips are going to go where, or what will turn up. It's a more flexible approach that will be quicker to seize on underlying conditions people are just beginning to discover. The terrain defines what you end up doing, and if something takes off, the paint drip types are going to be all over it, even though it's not planned. It's not that useful of an observation because you must then ask what you're going to do about it, but it is a valid observation all the same. This mode of being does exist. My career's based on being that, and also putting in the effort to finish things: otherwise it would be pure dilettantism.
ilyt 3y ago
My first thought was "people that do the boring enough stuff comparable to watching paint drip/dry" so dunno whether name is all that good or not. But I definitely acquired some skills in similar method, just doing something, hitting a snag and exploring some niche of debugging or code to get that tiny speck of knowledge while otherwise not knowing all that much about adjacent subjects.
zdw 3y ago
How is this different from "senior generalist who did a few deep dives in specific areas and projects"?
- juancn 3y ago
  It's the drive maybe? I mean, when you're like this, you can't help it. The deep dives are driven by curiosity rather than by projects necessarily.
- Applejinx 3y ago
  The unplanned nature of the areas and projects. Doing deep dives implies agency. The concept here is that the paint drips are unpredictable and unexpected, which could lead to significance and could just be a waste of time :)
corry 3y ago
Thought-provoking metaphor. Upon reflection, I think the article emphasizes the wrong aspect of this -- the drip part itself -- at the expense of the more interesting elements (the length and breadth of the horizontal line, the amount of paint, etc). CURIOSITY seems to be the horizontal line; i.e. the person's latent curiosity about things, domains, areas, etc, and the urge to explore/discover is what drives the horizontal movement. The 'amount of paint' variable, which is clearly the most important part of the physical reality underpinning the metaphor, would perhaps be akin to COMPETENCE. Competence is a stand-in word for intelligence, grit, suitable background knowledge, and probably a host of other qualities. So what's the grand conclusion here? That highly curious and highly competent people tend to be prolific in their output? Not so surprising perhaps, but fun to think about.
- corry 3y ago
  Self replying with another thought: I always find it remarkable when really young founders (like college-age) are successful, because they lack so much understanding about the world, business, people, etc. BUT they likely have a great deal more curiosity and drive than older folks. Maybe there's some sweet spot, where founders have enough real-world experience to understand how the world works, and how to build things, but are still curious and driven enough to jump off and try. Past that point, I fear that curiosity starts declining even as competence increases - say, when you're 50, will you get the feeling you 'know' the world in-and-out, you 'know' there's no easy opportunities... and besides, you have a teenager-filled family, a mortgage, etc all of which perhaps stifle really broad-ranging curiosity not least because your time has more demands on it.
  - neilv 3y ago
    It's a not-unusual theory, but it's bumping into something I'd really like to avoid (especially on HN), which is negative generalizations of different age/gender/racial/familystatus/etc. demographics in business contexts. (In the US, a super HR person's Spidey Sense would tingle, and they'd fly across the building and yank the keyboard out of someone's hands, before certain sentences could be finished. Then sit down for a constructive discussion about why generalizations are not only counterproductive and unfair, but also a big policy no-no at most established US companies. But on HN, we just have to frequently ask to please stop saying that.)
neilv 3y ago
> Once it starts rolling, it’s not clear how far it will go. In any case, the brush keeps moving. I like this. Sounds like one can have multiple drips going at once, including some that hve been dripping for a long time. > Eventually the last drip stops and a new one starts. Is this sentence saying that at some point the multiple ongoing drips might stop (or slow to a crawl), but the person is still learning, because they're already starting new drips? I'd prefer to avoid misinterpretations of short-attention-span or serial-dabbler. Also, the characterization of T-shaped here speaks of interests, but the motivations for skill development might actually be necessities, such as in an early startup. The interest can be a side-effect of something needing doing. You start to dig into the solution domain, anchored around a real problem, and it becomes interesting. If only we could be comb-shaped.
amadeuspagel 3y ago
A particular type of essay that HN is an absolute sucker for — an awesome type of person that you're supposed to identify with. Paint Drip Person. T-Shaped Person. Paul Graham has also written a bunch of these, so maybe it's just in the DNA of the site. I guess the classical example of this is the renaissance man, but that at least required different fields like art and science and not different kinds of programming.
- istjohn 3y ago
  Yes, these post-hoc explanations for why someone is successful allow us to indulge in fantasies of success without providing any actionable advice that has actual empirical evidence.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    Why such a needlessly pessimistic view? I think this "paint drip" imagery is a cute way to describe the characteristics of success described therein.
    - thrashh 3y ago
      Well let’s say I find a super successful restaurant that makes its burritos one way. I’m amazed. I’m inspired. I write a book about it and describe the specific ways that they do things that make them successful. Then a few years later, I find another super successful burrito restaurant. They make it completely opposite to what I wrote in my book. It turns out the reasons for success runs deeper than the superficial things that you see people do day to day. For every successful person that reads a book a week, there’s probably 5 that just laze on the couch.
      - gottorf 3y ago
        > For every successful person that reads a book a week, there’s probably 5 that just laze on the couch. I understand that not every successful person reads a book a week (or s/a book a week/any other "productive" habit often bandied about in articles like this), but I really doubt that very many successful people habitually laze on the couch.

70 points by KentBeck 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Thanks for sharing! I often call myself a flat bar, because I'm missing the one specialization for the T-shape. This description of the 'paint drip person' hit really close to home, so I think that that's what I'll call myself in the future.

fsniper 3y ago
This also resonates with me. That's one of the reasons I am not on the development side of things. In the systems side you need to know some of everything.
- donkeyd 3y ago
  > I am not on the development side The same, pretty much. I moved into architecture and having such broad knowledge really helps with being able to talk to pretty much anyone.
throwway120385 3y ago
A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.

jhinra 3y ago

This analogy seems like a stretch. An artist that has paint dripping from their strokes strikes me as sloppy. Is this analogy really tied to a single specific type of painting?

riebschlager 3y ago
I believe the analogy is more a reference to the shape of paint drips as seen in the image on the page. The T model of skills has a single "descender" that represents deep knowledge in a single topic, whereas paint drips represent varying depths of knowledge in several areas.
- ilyt 3y ago
  Yeah but if you don't have attached article the first thing I'm gonna think about is "sloppy" or "this person is into boring tasks like watching paint dry"
- Applejinx 3y ago
  It's a good enough analogy to go deeper than that. The T model is an intentional, planned descender. The paint drip thing implies that you don't know which drips are going to go where, or what will turn up. It's a more flexible approach that will be quicker to seize on underlying conditions people are just beginning to discover. The terrain defines what you end up doing, and if something takes off, the paint drip types are going to be all over it, even though it's not planned. It's not that useful of an observation because you must then ask what you're going to do about it, but it is a valid observation all the same. This mode of being does exist. My career's based on being that, and also putting in the effort to finish things: otherwise it would be pure dilettantism.

ilyt 3y ago

My first thought was "people that do the boring enough stuff comparable to watching paint drip/dry" so dunno whether name is all that good or not. But I definitely acquired some skills in similar method, just doing something, hitting a snag and exploring some niche of debugging or code to get that tiny speck of knowledge while otherwise not knowing all that much about adjacent subjects.

zdw 3y ago

How is this different from "senior generalist who did a few deep dives in specific areas and projects"?

juancn 3y ago
It's the drive maybe? I mean, when you're like this, you can't help it. The deep dives are driven by curiosity rather than by projects necessarily.
Applejinx 3y ago
The unplanned nature of the areas and projects. Doing deep dives implies agency. The concept here is that the paint drips are unpredictable and unexpected, which could lead to significance and could just be a waste of time :)

corry 3y ago

Thought-provoking metaphor. Upon reflection, I think the article emphasizes the wrong aspect of this -- the drip part itself -- at the expense of the more interesting elements (the length and breadth of the horizontal line, the amount of paint, etc). CURIOSITY seems to be the horizontal line; i.e. the person's latent curiosity about things, domains, areas, etc, and the urge to explore/discover is what drives the horizontal movement. The 'amount of paint' variable, which is clearly the most important part of the physical reality underpinning the metaphor, would perhaps be akin to COMPETENCE. Competence is a stand-in word for intelligence, grit, suitable background knowledge, and probably a host of other qualities. So what's the grand conclusion here? That highly curious and highly competent people tend to be prolific in their output? Not so surprising perhaps, but fun to think about.

corry 3y ago
Self replying with another thought: I always find it remarkable when really young founders (like college-age) are successful, because they lack so much understanding about the world, business, people, etc. BUT they likely have a great deal more curiosity and drive than older folks. Maybe there's some sweet spot, where founders have enough real-world experience to understand how the world works, and how to build things, but are still curious and driven enough to jump off and try. Past that point, I fear that curiosity starts declining even as competence increases - say, when you're 50, will you get the feeling you 'know' the world in-and-out, you 'know' there's no easy opportunities... and besides, you have a teenager-filled family, a mortgage, etc all of which perhaps stifle really broad-ranging curiosity not least because your time has more demands on it.
- neilv 3y ago
  It's a not-unusual theory, but it's bumping into something I'd really like to avoid (especially on HN), which is negative generalizations of different age/gender/racial/familystatus/etc. demographics in business contexts. (In the US, a super HR person's Spidey Sense would tingle, and they'd fly across the building and yank the keyboard out of someone's hands, before certain sentences could be finished. Then sit down for a constructive discussion about why generalizations are not only counterproductive and unfair, but also a big policy no-no at most established US companies. But on HN, we just have to frequently ask to please stop saying that.)

neilv 3y ago

> Once it starts rolling, it’s not clear how far it will go. In any case, the brush keeps moving. I like this. Sounds like one can have multiple drips going at once, including some that hve been dripping for a long time. > Eventually the last drip stops and a new one starts. Is this sentence saying that at some point the multiple ongoing drips might stop (or slow to a crawl), but the person is still learning, because they're already starting new drips? I'd prefer to avoid misinterpretations of short-attention-span or serial-dabbler. Also, the characterization of T-shaped here speaks of interests, but the motivations for skill development might actually be necessities, such as in an early startup. The interest can be a side-effect of something needing doing. You start to dig into the solution domain, anchored around a real problem, and it becomes interesting. If only we could be comb-shaped.

amadeuspagel 3y ago

A particular type of essay that HN is an absolute sucker for — an awesome type of person that you're supposed to identify with. Paint Drip Person. T-Shaped Person. Paul Graham has also written a bunch of these, so maybe it's just in the DNA of the site. I guess the classical example of this is the renaissance man, but that at least required different fields like art and science and not different kinds of programming.

istjohn 3y ago
Yes, these post-hoc explanations for why someone is successful allow us to indulge in fantasies of success without providing any actionable advice that has actual empirical evidence.
- gottorf 3y ago
  Why such a needlessly pessimistic view? I think this "paint drip" imagery is a cute way to describe the characteristics of success described therein.
  - thrashh 3y ago
    Well let’s say I find a super successful restaurant that makes its burritos one way. I’m amazed. I’m inspired. I write a book about it and describe the specific ways that they do things that make them successful. Then a few years later, I find another super successful burrito restaurant. They make it completely opposite to what I wrote in my book. It turns out the reasons for success runs deeper than the superficial things that you see people do day to day. For every successful person that reads a book a week, there’s probably 5 that just laze on the couch.
    - gottorf 3y ago
      > For every successful person that reads a book a week, there’s probably 5 that just laze on the couch. I understand that not every successful person reads a book a week (or s/a book a week/any other "productive" habit often bandied about in articles like this), but I really doubt that very many successful people habitually laze on the couch.