5 ms·

It is 'firing on all cylinders', but a lot of people also got a pay cut either from pay cut to avoid being laid-off or being laid-off and hired by smaller compa

It is 'firing on all cylinders', but a lot of people also got a pay cut either from pay cut to avoid being laid-off or being laid-off and hired by smaller companies (smaller pay). Meanwhile, salary/bonus for CEO increased. No only the paycheck got smaller, but also prices for literally everything went up by at least 20% (milk, bread, eggs, meat, etc.) The good side is that smaller companies are hiring, because a lot of people are hurting.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
True! But the only solution to that is to organize/unionize. Wages must go up (to outpace inflation, which there is strong evidence is not being caused by a wage-price spiral [1] [2]), and profits must go down (which arguably have nowhere to go but down due to go forward interest rate policy, tax policy, structural demographics, etc [3] [4]). This is the only lever available to arrive at that outcome. Shareholders, boards, and executive leadership aren't going to give profits back willingly to the people who do the actual work. Follow along the current Teamsters/Yellow trucking conflict. Yellow is threatening to close up shop vs pay reasonable wages, and the union is willing to kill the business versus allow them to continue to squeeze labor for their profits [5]. In a macro where labor is in excess demand for the next decade [6] [7], this is a reasonable way to operate. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35077748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35077748 [2] https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/feds-powell-acknowledges-slimmer-corporate-profits-could-help-curb-inflation-2023-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/feds-powell-acknowledges-... [3] https://www.marketplace.org/2023/05/25/decline-in-corporate-profits-economy/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/05/25/decline-in-corporate-... [4] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/end-of-an-era-the-coming-long-run-slowdown-in-corporate-profit-growth-and-stock-returns.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/end-of-an-era-th... [5] https://www.freightwaves.com/news/why-teamsters-is-willing-to-sacrifice-22000-union-trucking-jobs https://www.freightwaves.com/news/why-teamsters-is-willing-t... [6] https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-workers https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-wor... [7] https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomer-retirement-surge-spark-forever-labor-shortage-jobs-workers-2023-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomer-retirement-surge...
- bluedino 3y ago
  That is just met with outsourcing and offshoring.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    For white collar jobs, maybe (despite evidence of nearshoring/reshoring). Physical jobs? There is no appetite to increase immigration. Florida just enacted strong penalties for employing undocumented folks, for example. Anyway, support of unions has never been higher in the US (currently 68%) [1] [2]. I get that a cohort of HN has some sort of hyper-capitalistic Stockholm syndrome (I get why of course, YC and all, "I'm just a temporarily embarrassed tech millionaire/billionaire") bent and frowns on the idea in an Ayn Rand-ian way, but HN is a bubble vs the rest of the country. If you are here, odds are you are privileged in some capacity. Most people are not. People are tired of getting ground by the machine, and are realizing there are options to get some purchase on the economic rockface [3] [4]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-highest-point-1965.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-hi... [2] https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120111276/labor-union-support-in-us https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120111276/labor-union-suppor... [3] https://www.epi.org/publication/unionization-2022/ https://www.epi.org/publication/unionization-2022/ [4] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/why-is-there-a-union-boom.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/why-is-there-a-union-boom.ht...
    - bluedino 3y ago
      > For white collar jobs, maybe (despite evidence of nearshoring/reshoring). Physical jobs? Physical jobs get outsourced. Look at what an Amazon driver makes compared to a UPS driver. Look at all the jobs the big three auto manufacturers have shipped to Mexico over the last 40 years.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Your first example is Amazon using a corporate structure maneuver to evade employee classification. That is not outsourcing, that is attempting to evade the law. Your second example, while accurate [1] (and a contributor to the hollowing out of the middle class), is trending back to the US due to Inflation Reduction Act subsidies [2] (battery factories highlighted as they are the major component of EVs). [1] https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109127/witnesses/HHRG-116-WM04-Wstate-NassarJ-20190326.pdf https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109127/witnesses/... [2] https://electrek.co/2023/05/31/north-america-battery-factories/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/31/north-america-battery-factori...

toomuchtodo 3y ago

True! But the only solution to that is to organize/unionize. Wages must go up (to outpace inflation, which there is strong evidence is not being caused by a wage-price spiral [1] [2]), and profits must go down (which arguably have nowhere to go but down due to go forward interest rate policy, tax policy, structural demographics, etc [3] [4]). This is the only lever available to arrive at that outcome. Shareholders, boards, and executive leadership aren't going to give profits back willingly to the people who do the actual work. Follow along the current Teamsters/Yellow trucking conflict. Yellow is threatening to close up shop vs pay reasonable wages, and the union is willing to kill the business versus allow them to continue to squeeze labor for their profits [5]. In a macro where labor is in excess demand for the next decade [6] [7], this is a reasonable way to operate. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35077748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35077748 [2] https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/feds-powell-acknowledges-slimmer-corporate-profits-could-help-curb-inflation-2023-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/feds-powell-acknowledges-... [3] https://www.marketplace.org/2023/05/25/decline-in-corporate-profits-economy/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/05/25/decline-in-corporate-... [4] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/end-of-an-era-the-coming-long-run-slowdown-in-corporate-profit-growth-and-stock-returns.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/end-of-an-era-th... [5] https://www.freightwaves.com/news/why-teamsters-is-willing-to-sacrifice-22000-union-trucking-jobs https://www.freightwaves.com/news/why-teamsters-is-willing-t... [6] https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-workers https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-wor... [7] https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomer-retirement-surge-spark-forever-labor-shortage-jobs-workers-2023-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomer-retirement-surge...

bluedino 3y ago
That is just met with outsourcing and offshoring.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  For white collar jobs, maybe (despite evidence of nearshoring/reshoring). Physical jobs? There is no appetite to increase immigration. Florida just enacted strong penalties for employing undocumented folks, for example. Anyway, support of unions has never been higher in the US (currently 68%) [1] [2]. I get that a cohort of HN has some sort of hyper-capitalistic Stockholm syndrome (I get why of course, YC and all, "I'm just a temporarily embarrassed tech millionaire/billionaire") bent and frowns on the idea in an Ayn Rand-ian way, but HN is a bubble vs the rest of the country. If you are here, odds are you are privileged in some capacity. Most people are not. People are tired of getting ground by the machine, and are realizing there are options to get some purchase on the economic rockface [3] [4]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-highest-point-1965.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-hi... [2] https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120111276/labor-union-support-in-us https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120111276/labor-union-suppor... [3] https://www.epi.org/publication/unionization-2022/ https://www.epi.org/publication/unionization-2022/ [4] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/why-is-there-a-union-boom.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/why-is-there-a-union-boom.ht...
  - bluedino 3y ago
    > For white collar jobs, maybe (despite evidence of nearshoring/reshoring). Physical jobs? Physical jobs get outsourced. Look at what an Amazon driver makes compared to a UPS driver. Look at all the jobs the big three auto manufacturers have shipped to Mexico over the last 40 years.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Your first example is Amazon using a corporate structure maneuver to evade employee classification. That is not outsourcing, that is attempting to evade the law. Your second example, while accurate [1] (and a contributor to the hollowing out of the middle class), is trending back to the US due to Inflation Reduction Act subsidies [2] (battery factories highlighted as they are the major component of EVs). [1] https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109127/witnesses/HHRG-116-WM04-Wstate-NassarJ-20190326.pdf https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109127/witnesses/... [2] https://electrek.co/2023/05/31/north-america-battery-factories/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/31/north-america-battery-factori...