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> younger folks are above me. It feels undignified, humiliating at times. I'm not sure becoming a manager would solve that, as there might still be younger peo

• vmfunction 3y ago
  it is also about why are you there. Both friends and I have had manager that are decades younger than us. Wasn't really a problem. Depending what if you want to deal with meetings, C-Level people, or just develop software at your job.
• nashashmi 3y ago
  > why it bothers you so to be managed by someone younger. The idea that when you grow up you go up in rank. And if you have younger people who are above you, and you have not moved up at all, then you feel like you’re not performing well. I think this feeling is artificial and externally influenced. Some of us are made to do work. Others are made to oversee. They are both equal in rank. Just different set of skill.
  • jsjsof 3y ago
    Except managers have more authority and higher bonuses, the definition of higher rank.
  • dijit 3y ago
    I think this is the core of it. Good managers never feel like they “outrank” you, they make you feel like they operate in a broader context and allow you to do your best work. I am management now, I only took this role because every time I trusted someone else to manage they let me down; but it really is just a different job, its not “superior” and using words like that to describe management is a huge part of the problem.
    • nashashmi 3y ago
      Indeed. The word superior comes from army ranking as in superior officer via chain of command. And then there is the other word: subordinate.
    • devnullbrain 3y ago
      Can your reports fire you?
      • imron 3y ago
        Any of them can look for a new job at any time. That’s the reason for the saying: people don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers.
      • dijit 3y ago
        Well, no but that's mainly because of asymmetric numbers. If all reports of a manager complain to the managers manager, that manager will likely be reassigned or reprimanded in a similar manner to a manager and an IC. Also I should note that in most of Europe (at least the parts I've worked in), a managers voice is just a louder voice in a room of other managers- and firing someone is something that is not done by an individual, it's a discussion with managers and HR. It's not taken lightly to fire people, even in places that are "at will" (theoretically) like Denmark.
        • kelipso 3y ago
          Depends on the company but I'd say in most small and medium-sized companies in the US, your manager can fire you without cause and be just fine with maybe some half-assed explanation if upper management asks questions.
      • paxys 3y ago
        At most companies your direct manager can't fire you either. They simply write reviews and escalate problems to upper management/executives/HR, who then decide whether to act on it or not.
  • JohnFen 3y ago
    Interesting. I never thought of managers as being a "higher rank" than those they are managing. Managers are just doing a particular job that needs to be done, like all of the other jobs in a company.
    • gtirloni 3y ago
      Ranking is about a hieararchy and where someone is positioned in it. Managers are positioned higher in the hiearchy so it seems fair to say they are "higher rank". Whether that translates to real power or not depends on a lot of things. I think this discussion is conflating ranking and skill and these don't often correlate. > Managers are just doing a particular job that needs to be done, like all of the other jobs in a company. That particular job can fire you, in most cases. Our industry lives in a bubble compared to most other industries. Here a senior programmer can have as much power as the manager that is managing them. Especially in the case of staff/principal engineers.
      • JohnFen 3y ago
        > Managers are positioned higher in the hiearchy What hierarchy? Are you talking about the org chart? I don't see that as a hierarchy in the sense I think it's being used here. It's just a description of who is managing who, not of "rank" in some sort of militaryesque sense. My manager is not my "superior". He's the person responsible for ensuring that everyone in his department is working in an aligned manner, and for ensuring that everyone has the fewest roadblocks possible. > That particular job can fire you, in most cases. Well, he can't, really. He can recommend that I be fired, and his recommendation carries a great deal of weight, but it's not his call. But ignoring that... I don't see how that's very relevant. But perhaps I'm just being misled by the use of the term "rank". That implies a superiority of some sort to me, and that superiority doesn't exist. It's just a different job, is all. It also implies that "manager" is a rung up on a ladder, and I don't think it is. It's a different job altogether, not an evolution of the job I have.
        • gtirloni 3y ago
          You seem to be attributing your personal view of the world to the word "rank", to be honest. It's not about an individual's self worth or how you think companies to organize.
• raincole 3y ago
  The obvious solution is not to become a manager, but to become an 18-year-old.
  • gtirloni 3y ago
    We need more of this type of root cause analysis in our industry.
    • fatfingerd 3y ago
      How do I get into your industry?
      • i_am_jl 3y ago
        Root cause analysis, weren't you paying attention?
• rg111 3y ago
  Slightly tangential, but in the span of my career, when I have worked with young people, I have enjoyed it much more than old boss-stereotyped bosses. I only once had a younger supervisor, and I preferred that much more than an old boss. Is it just me? I have also had a friend tell me the same.
  • JohnFen 3y ago
    Of the two best managers I've ever had, one was ancient and the other was fresh out of college. It leads me to think that age is not terribly relevant to the issue.
  • kelipso 3y ago
    I quit my last job mainly because my new manager was a few years younger than me. I found it got under my skin but dude was kind of annoying too lol.