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Oh!? Even though GP is being a bit pedantic I thought he was correct. Why is "a HTTP server" cromulent here? Do acronyms enjoy special rules? (FWIW english i

Oh!? Even though GP is being a bit pedantic I thought he was correct. Why is "a HTTP server" cromulent here? Do acronyms enjoy special rules? (FWIW english is not my native language)

nubinetwork 3y ago
H is a consonant. "An" is used in this case if the next word starts with a vowel.
- pm215 3y ago
  It's used if the next word starts with a vowel sound, so it depends on how you pronounce 'H' as a standalone letter. Personally I say it as "aitch", so for me "an" is correct here and what I would say.
  - nubinetwork 3y ago
    What about L (ell)? You don't say "an LAMP server", it's "a LAMP server".
    - stirfish 3y ago
      An ell ay em pee server A lamp server
    - xnorswap 3y ago
      Because LAMP is an acronym so is pronounced as a whole word. You would say "An LLP" for example. HTTP is (usually) pronounced "Aitch tee tee pee", so starts with a vowel.
      - DonHopkins 3y ago
        And then there's "an historic event" with a historically British pronunciation, which sounds like a weird non-intuitive exception to Americans, because Brits drop the voiceless glottal fricative "h" sound and start the word with the vowel "i", like "an 'istoric event". Saying "a historic event" by pronouncing the "h" sounds natural to a non-pedantic American (even though it's against the official rules of British English), because Americans pronounce the consonant voiceless glottal fricative "h" instead of dropping it. https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/an-historic-vs-a-historic/ https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/an-historic-vs-a-histori... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dropping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dropping H-dropping H-dropping or aitch-dropping is the deletion of the voiceless glottal fricative or "H-sound", [h]. The phenomenon is common in many dialects of English, and is also found in certain other languages, either as a purely historical development or as a contemporary difference between dialects. Although common in most regions of England and in some other English-speaking countries, and linguistically speaking a neutral evolution in languages, H-dropping is often stigmatized as a sign of careless or uneducated speech. The reverse phenomenon, H-insertion or H-adding, is found in certain situations, sometimes as an allophone or hypercorrection by H-dropping speakers, and sometimes as a spelling pronunciation or out of perceived etymological correctness. A particular example of this is the spread of 'haitch' for 'aitch'. [...] H-insertion The opposite of H-dropping, called H-insertion or H-adding, sometimes occurs as a hypercorrection in typically H-dropping accents of English. It is commonly noted in literature from late Victorian times to the early 20th century that some lower-class people consistently drop h in words that should have it, while adding h to words that should not have it. An example from the musical My Fair Lady is, "In 'Artford, 'Ereford, and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen". Another is in C. S. Lewis' The Magician's Nephew: "Three cheers for the Hempress of Colney 'Atch". In practice, however, it would appear that h-adding is more of a stylistic prosodic effect, being found on some words receiving particular emphasis, regardless of whether those words are h-initial or vowel-initial in the standard language. Some English words borrowed from French may begin with the letter ⟨h⟩ but not with the sound /h/. Examples include heir, and, in many regional pronunciations, hour, hono(u)r and honest. In some cases, spelling pronunciation has introduced the sound /h/ into such words, as in humble, hotel and (for most speakers) historic. Spelling pronunciation has also added /h/ to the British English pronunciation of herb, /hɜːb/, while American English retains the older pronunciation /ɜrb/. Etymology may also serve as a motivation for H-addition, as in the words horrible, habit and harmony; these were borrowed into Middle English from French without an /h/ (orrible, abit, armonie), but all three derive from Latin words with an /h/ and would later acquire an /h/ in English as an etymological "correction".[13] The name of the letter H itself, "aitch", is subject to H-insertion in some dialects, where it is pronounced "haitch". (In Hiberno-English, "haitch" has come to be considered standard, consistent with its not-an-H-dropping dialects).[14]
    - pnut 3y ago
      But what about LED? The point is whether you're saying the letter or a word that starts with the letter.
    - DonHopkins 3y ago
      (In response to your pre-edit post): It's a lemon, not an ellemon. Or a lamp, not an ellamp.
  - TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
    You say an if * the next word begins with a vowel sound; or * the next word begins with an h sound, and the initial syllable of the next word is unstressed, and you're an old-fashioned, slightly upper class Brit.
    - 28304283409234 3y ago
      I am Dutch, actually. But indeed: old and fashioned.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  While generally true that "an" goes before vowels and "a" goes before consonants, it actually matters on how the consonant is pronounced - yeah, I know, English is funny like this. So in this particular case you can use "an" and "a" depending on how you pronounce the letter H.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  Would you say "a XML file" or "an XML file"?
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    There's not really any way you can pronounce XML starting with a consonant sound is there? So always "an", even if you spell out the whole initialism. But..."xaml" is fairly typically pronounced as "zaml", so "a xaml file" would be the norm.
    - Joker_vD 3y ago
      I personally pronounce it as "ks-em-el", with the "a" article before it. Admittedly, it sounds almost as if I pronounce it as "eks-em-el" without any article at all.
  - stirfish 3y ago
    I just try not to talk about XML
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    It depends on if you're in a CDATA section or not. I Wanna Be <![CDATA[ -- Sung to the tune of “I Wanna Be Sedated”, with apologies to The Ramones: https://donhopkins.medium.com/i-wanna-be-cdata-3406e14d4f21 https://donhopkins.medium.com/i-wanna-be-cdata-3406e14d4f21
- mnw21cam 3y ago
  It's not as simple as that. In general English usage, when we have an acronym, we tend to look at whether it sounds like it starts with a vowel. So for instance the acronym RTFM is pronounced "arr tee eff em", which starts with a vowel. Which brings us back to this one - both "a" and "an" are valid, because it depends whether you're pronouncing your "h" as an Australian "Haich" or a British/American "Aich".
aesh2Xa1 3y ago
Some people pronounce the letter "H" differently. The use of "a" or "an" depends upon the vowel sound. an aitch a haitch https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11642588 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11642588
- wizofaus 3y ago
  "Haitch" is now so common in Australia it almost sounds normal, despite my years of trying to correct anyone using that pronunciation (insisting if they are going to call it that, then it should also be 'feff', 'lell', 'mem' etc. - thankfully I never got as far as extrapolating to w-double u). I'm not sure I'll ever accept it as "correct" (whatever that means) but it is undoubtedly the way many people have learned to say it and are unlikely to change. The "'an' only before a vowel sound" rule seems to much more deeply wired in, so yeah, it would be "a http server" if you're a haitcher.
- JoBrad 3y ago
  Most of the changed emphasis in the article is very similar to American English. But “says” with a long a is an odd one. I’ve heard it pronounced that way by a few Brits, and it still takes me a minute.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dekhn 3y ago
because HTTP is pronounced "hittip", obviously, and in the US, we use 'a' for words that start with hard H sounds.

Oh!? Even though GP is being a bit pedantic I thought he was correct. Why is "a HTTP server" cromulent here? Do acronyms enjoy special rules? (FWIW english is not my native language)

nubinetwork 3y ago

H is a consonant. "An" is used in this case if the next word starts with a vowel.

pm215 3y ago
It's used if the next word starts with a vowel sound, so it depends on how you pronounce 'H' as a standalone letter. Personally I say it as "aitch", so for me "an" is correct here and what I would say.
- nubinetwork 3y ago
  What about L (ell)? You don't say "an LAMP server", it's "a LAMP server".
  - stirfish 3y ago
    An ell ay em pee server A lamp server
  - xnorswap 3y ago
    Because LAMP is an acronym so is pronounced as a whole word. You would say "An LLP" for example. HTTP is (usually) pronounced "Aitch tee tee pee", so starts with a vowel.
    - DonHopkins 3y ago
      And then there's "an historic event" with a historically British pronunciation, which sounds like a weird non-intuitive exception to Americans, because Brits drop the voiceless glottal fricative "h" sound and start the word with the vowel "i", like "an 'istoric event". Saying "a historic event" by pronouncing the "h" sounds natural to a non-pedantic American (even though it's against the official rules of British English), because Americans pronounce the consonant voiceless glottal fricative "h" instead of dropping it. https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/an-historic-vs-a-historic/ https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/an-historic-vs-a-histori... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dropping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dropping H-dropping H-dropping or aitch-dropping is the deletion of the voiceless glottal fricative or "H-sound", [h]. The phenomenon is common in many dialects of English, and is also found in certain other languages, either as a purely historical development or as a contemporary difference between dialects. Although common in most regions of England and in some other English-speaking countries, and linguistically speaking a neutral evolution in languages, H-dropping is often stigmatized as a sign of careless or uneducated speech. The reverse phenomenon, H-insertion or H-adding, is found in certain situations, sometimes as an allophone or hypercorrection by H-dropping speakers, and sometimes as a spelling pronunciation or out of perceived etymological correctness. A particular example of this is the spread of 'haitch' for 'aitch'. [...] H-insertion The opposite of H-dropping, called H-insertion or H-adding, sometimes occurs as a hypercorrection in typically H-dropping accents of English. It is commonly noted in literature from late Victorian times to the early 20th century that some lower-class people consistently drop h in words that should have it, while adding h to words that should not have it. An example from the musical My Fair Lady is, "In 'Artford, 'Ereford, and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen". Another is in C. S. Lewis' The Magician's Nephew: "Three cheers for the Hempress of Colney 'Atch". In practice, however, it would appear that h-adding is more of a stylistic prosodic effect, being found on some words receiving particular emphasis, regardless of whether those words are h-initial or vowel-initial in the standard language. Some English words borrowed from French may begin with the letter ⟨h⟩ but not with the sound /h/. Examples include heir, and, in many regional pronunciations, hour, hono(u)r and honest. In some cases, spelling pronunciation has introduced the sound /h/ into such words, as in humble, hotel and (for most speakers) historic. Spelling pronunciation has also added /h/ to the British English pronunciation of herb, /hɜːb/, while American English retains the older pronunciation /ɜrb/. Etymology may also serve as a motivation for H-addition, as in the words horrible, habit and harmony; these were borrowed into Middle English from French without an /h/ (orrible, abit, armonie), but all three derive from Latin words with an /h/ and would later acquire an /h/ in English as an etymological "correction".[13] The name of the letter H itself, "aitch", is subject to H-insertion in some dialects, where it is pronounced "haitch". (In Hiberno-English, "haitch" has come to be considered standard, consistent with its not-an-H-dropping dialects).[14]
  - pnut 3y ago
    But what about LED? The point is whether you're saying the letter or a word that starts with the letter.
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    (In response to your pre-edit post): It's a lemon, not an ellemon. Or a lamp, not an ellamp.
- TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
  You say an if * the next word begins with a vowel sound; or * the next word begins with an h sound, and the initial syllable of the next word is unstressed, and you're an old-fashioned, slightly upper class Brit.
  - 28304283409234 3y ago
    I am Dutch, actually. But indeed: old and fashioned.
ExoticPearTree 3y ago
While generally true that "an" goes before vowels and "a" goes before consonants, it actually matters on how the consonant is pronounced - yeah, I know, English is funny like this. So in this particular case you can use "an" and "a" depending on how you pronounce the letter H.
SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
Would you say "a XML file" or "an XML file"?
- wizofaus 3y ago
  There's not really any way you can pronounce XML starting with a consonant sound is there? So always "an", even if you spell out the whole initialism. But..."xaml" is fairly typically pronounced as "zaml", so "a xaml file" would be the norm.
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    I personally pronounce it as "ks-em-el", with the "a" article before it. Admittedly, it sounds almost as if I pronounce it as "eks-em-el" without any article at all.
- stirfish 3y ago
  I just try not to talk about XML
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  It depends on if you're in a CDATA section or not. I Wanna Be <![CDATA[ -- Sung to the tune of “I Wanna Be Sedated”, with apologies to The Ramones: https://donhopkins.medium.com/i-wanna-be-cdata-3406e14d4f21 https://donhopkins.medium.com/i-wanna-be-cdata-3406e14d4f21
mnw21cam 3y ago
It's not as simple as that. In general English usage, when we have an acronym, we tend to look at whether it sounds like it starts with a vowel. So for instance the acronym RTFM is pronounced "arr tee eff em", which starts with a vowel. Which brings us back to this one - both "a" and "an" are valid, because it depends whether you're pronouncing your "h" as an Australian "Haich" or a British/American "Aich".

aesh2Xa1 3y ago

Some people pronounce the letter "H" differently. The use of "a" or "an" depends upon the vowel sound. an aitch a haitch https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11642588 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11642588

wizofaus 3y ago
"Haitch" is now so common in Australia it almost sounds normal, despite my years of trying to correct anyone using that pronunciation (insisting if they are going to call it that, then it should also be 'feff', 'lell', 'mem' etc. - thankfully I never got as far as extrapolating to w-double u). I'm not sure I'll ever accept it as "correct" (whatever that means) but it is undoubtedly the way many people have learned to say it and are unlikely to change. The "'an' only before a vowel sound" rule seems to much more deeply wired in, so yeah, it would be "a http server" if you're a haitcher.
JoBrad 3y ago
Most of the changed emphasis in the article is very similar to American English. But “says” with a long a is an odd one. I’ve heard it pronounced that way by a few Brits, and it still takes me a minute.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dekhn 3y ago

because HTTP is pronounced "hittip", obviously, and in the US, we use 'a' for words that start with hard H sounds.