5 ms·

Goravel, Web framework inspired from Laravel in Golang

38 points by sawirricardo 3y ago

mpldr 3y ago
Laravel, the framework that made me quit PHP. Not sure the concept of "one framework doing everything" will resonate well with the wider Go community. I will keep an eye on it though.
- lamoureux 3y ago
  [dead]
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  > Laravel, the framework that made me quit PHP. I would be interested to hear more.
  - ABNW 3y ago
    Also interested in hearing more - first person i've heard say they do not like Laravel...
    - mgkimsal 3y ago
      Poke around a bit more; you'll find plenty of people don't care for it.
      - spiderfarmer 3y ago
        Overly pedantic programmers always have trouble conforming to a framework where compromises are made in ways they can't get behind. For every one of these, there a thousands of programmers who are very successful with the same framework.
  - boredpudding 3y ago
    Not OP. While I didn't quite PHP. I just don't work with Laravel. A lot of good points are written down here: https://old.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/131t2k1/laravel_considered_harmful/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/131t2k1/laravel_consid... In short, it just doesn't use good programming principles. It's not just easy to write code with bad principles, it's everywhere in the tutorials. There's of course Laravel apps out there that do have good programming principles. It's very much possible to write good code with Laravel. It's just less common.
    - solraph 3y ago
      Also not OP, but the linked reddit post sums up one of the major reasons I had to get out of PHP several years ago. Everything is/was moving to Laravel in PHP land. I got tired of dealing with highly coupled, non-unit testable code that seemed to go out of it's way to ignore SOLID principles. God help us if it this project becomes the normal way of writing http go servers applications. Maybe at that point it's time to become an embedded rust programmer or a monk.
      - sshine 3y ago
        When I studied computer science, I promised myself to never touch PHP again. But PHP has more to give than just as a birthing ground for teenage programmers. When I many years later accepted a PHP job as a senior developer, PHP provided a consistent experience of "bad practice everywhere", a fractal of cringe I couldn't ironically reproduce. Working with this for a year taught me a lot about how to deal with critical legacy software beyond repair and being responsible with what you've got. I think there is no better way to get your hands consistently dirty than with PHP. Coincidence: I do embedded Rust, and my wife is a buddhist monk. ;-)
        cardanome 3y ago
        Many of my programming jobs in PHP had me working with people that were super anal about "good coding practices". Especially the Symfony guys seem to try to be the new ultra-corporate Java. So I don't think it a issue with the language but more that you didn't find your people. (Personally, I actual like working with legacy crap. It's easy money and reminds me of the past when things were simpler.) I feel most of the PHP community is pretty mature these days. More pragmatic than Rust, sure but that is a good point in my book. Though I am glad you found your enlightenment.
- sawirricardo 3y ago
  care to elaborate? interested to hear more about your use case back then
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    Overly pedantic programmers always have trouble conforming to a framework where compromises are made in ways they can't get behind. For every one of these, there a thousands of programmers who are very successful with the same framework.
- mpldr 3y ago
  Since this has generated quite some interest, the reasons I dislike Laravel are: - so. many. godobjects. - I dislike ORMs. I could not put my finger on it, while using PHP frameworks, because they were omni-present; but after using Python, Go, and C#, I found it to be easier for me to just avoid the overhead of an ORM. - Terrible structure. Sorting classes by type is something I have experienced to be generally less helpful than sorting by "topic" (not a native speaker, so this might not be the correct word for it. I recently heard it compared to collecting cars, then disassembling them and sorting by tires, steering wheels, seats, and so on) - Too much magic™. I understand that many like this about it, but I found it harder to understand what exactly the program is doing. It's not a lot, but after literally years of PHP and having these paper cuts almost weekly, I was at one point fed up. I first switched to CodeIgniter, which I found more pleasant, but still not even comparable to the comfort that cherry-picking components gets you (yes, you can by using composer, but most people I have spoken to discouraged that in favour of Laravel's built-in fun).
  - supriyo-biswas 3y ago
    I agree Laravel is a bit too much magic, but I’ve found Eloquent to be a top notch ORM. It hasn’t really failed me in any way, so I’d be interested to hear what you specifically disliked about it.
  - mablopoule 3y ago
    While I enjoyed my (small) foray into the world of Laravel, I'm happy to see something other than unabashed praise for Laravel here on HN. A technical decision should be done by weighting it's pros and cons, not just by looking at the pros. Agree on the 'Sorting classes by types', it's something I've always found surprising too, and love the car-collection metaphor.
bjablonski 3y ago
I'd start with double-checking permission for using Laravel logo :)
DeathArrow 3y ago
It's there a "default" web framework for Go which most of people use?
- imafish 3y ago
  My intuition is that Golang people dislike frameworks.
  - DeathArrow 3y ago
    So they roll their own stuff each time they do a web app?
    - maccard 3y ago
      A lot of go apps bolt together libraries yeah.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      From what I've seen yes. So in practice every go app is a custom & unique framework. Same problem as react. This was also the norm in php until laravel got popular a few years ago. IMO it's a rough way to make a web page but people keep doing it so it must have some advantages.
    - rmilejczz 3y ago
      It’s not that we roll all our own stuff it’s just that most of us avoid opinionated frameworks. Example I’d wager most go backends are using gorm or sqlx because rolling your own orm would be insane for most
    - jamil7 3y ago
      Not a go dev but I have dabbled. I get the impression that the sweet spot for go is not in building standard crud web apps but for specialised network services and tooling. For those reasons big heavy frameworks don’t seem popular.
    - Philip-J-Fry 3y ago
yevpats 3y ago
Yeah, Go is not a great language for frameworks as it usually works until it absolutely doesn't and then you have to rip that out.
- rob74 3y ago
  That's not a problem with Go, it's a problem with frameworks: they give you some abstractions, e.g. the Laravel query builder, but they don't cover all the use cases, so you quickly find yourself using "raw" queries anyway. There are some well-established web frameworks for Go (e.g. https://github.com/gin-gonic/gin https://github.com/gin-gonic/gin), but they are controversial too, as most Go developers seem to prefer libraries (that your code calls) instead of frameworks (that call your code and impose their structure upon it). So I don't think just cramming a framework from a completely different language into Go will fly...
ckdot2 3y ago
Please, no. While you can write really clean code in modern PHP, Laravel is a collection of anti-pattern. PHP has a bad reputation because in the past it was hard to implement clean code because of inconsistencies and lacking language features. PHPs reputation should improve, but Laravel is working against it. Please don't bring Laravel to Go.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- alexharrisnyc 3y ago
  Can you give a concrete example of what you mean by “Laravel is a collection of anti-pattern?” I would really love to understand what you are referring to.
  - mpldr 3y ago
    There was a reddit link posted under another thread, which had a very extensive list.
danielovichdk 3y ago
Goravel. Sounds like Azog or Borgs brother in the Hobbit movies. You can almost hear one of these dudes say it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUa_1FY8rA&pp=ygUPVGhlIGhvYmJpdCBhem9n https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUa_1FY8rA&pp=ygUPVGhlIGhvYmJ... Goooravell...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mystersir 3y ago
This framework reminds me of Bud[1], which is also inspired by Laravel. [1] https://github.com/livebud/bud https://github.com/livebud/bud

38 points by sawirricardo 3y ago

Laravel, the framework that made me quit PHP. Not sure the concept of "one framework doing everything" will resonate well with the wider Go community. I will keep an eye on it though.

lamoureux 3y ago
[dead]
arcanemachiner 3y ago
> Laravel, the framework that made me quit PHP. I would be interested to hear more.
- ABNW 3y ago
  Also interested in hearing more - first person i've heard say they do not like Laravel...
  - mgkimsal 3y ago
    Poke around a bit more; you'll find plenty of people don't care for it.
    - spiderfarmer 3y ago
      Overly pedantic programmers always have trouble conforming to a framework where compromises are made in ways they can't get behind. For every one of these, there a thousands of programmers who are very successful with the same framework.
- boredpudding 3y ago
  Not OP. While I didn't quite PHP. I just don't work with Laravel. A lot of good points are written down here: https://old.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/131t2k1/laravel_considered_harmful/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/131t2k1/laravel_consid... In short, it just doesn't use good programming principles. It's not just easy to write code with bad principles, it's everywhere in the tutorials. There's of course Laravel apps out there that do have good programming principles. It's very much possible to write good code with Laravel. It's just less common.
  - solraph 3y ago
    Also not OP, but the linked reddit post sums up one of the major reasons I had to get out of PHP several years ago. Everything is/was moving to Laravel in PHP land. I got tired of dealing with highly coupled, non-unit testable code that seemed to go out of it's way to ignore SOLID principles. God help us if it this project becomes the normal way of writing http go servers applications. Maybe at that point it's time to become an embedded rust programmer or a monk.
    - sshine 3y ago
      When I studied computer science, I promised myself to never touch PHP again. But PHP has more to give than just as a birthing ground for teenage programmers. When I many years later accepted a PHP job as a senior developer, PHP provided a consistent experience of "bad practice everywhere", a fractal of cringe I couldn't ironically reproduce. Working with this for a year taught me a lot about how to deal with critical legacy software beyond repair and being responsible with what you've got. I think there is no better way to get your hands consistently dirty than with PHP. Coincidence: I do embedded Rust, and my wife is a buddhist monk. ;-)
      - cardanome 3y ago
        Many of my programming jobs in PHP had me working with people that were super anal about "good coding practices". Especially the Symfony guys seem to try to be the new ultra-corporate Java. So I don't think it a issue with the language but more that you didn't find your people. (Personally, I actual like working with legacy crap. It's easy money and reminds me of the past when things were simpler.) I feel most of the PHP community is pretty mature these days. More pragmatic than Rust, sure but that is a good point in my book. Though I am glad you found your enlightenment.
sawirricardo 3y ago
care to elaborate? interested to hear more about your use case back then
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  Overly pedantic programmers always have trouble conforming to a framework where compromises are made in ways they can't get behind. For every one of these, there a thousands of programmers who are very successful with the same framework.
mpldr 3y ago
Since this has generated quite some interest, the reasons I dislike Laravel are: - so. many. godobjects. - I dislike ORMs. I could not put my finger on it, while using PHP frameworks, because they were omni-present; but after using Python, Go, and C#, I found it to be easier for me to just avoid the overhead of an ORM. - Terrible structure. Sorting classes by type is something I have experienced to be generally less helpful than sorting by "topic" (not a native speaker, so this might not be the correct word for it. I recently heard it compared to collecting cars, then disassembling them and sorting by tires, steering wheels, seats, and so on) - Too much magic™. I understand that many like this about it, but I found it harder to understand what exactly the program is doing. It's not a lot, but after literally years of PHP and having these paper cuts almost weekly, I was at one point fed up. I first switched to CodeIgniter, which I found more pleasant, but still not even comparable to the comfort that cherry-picking components gets you (yes, you can by using composer, but most people I have spoken to discouraged that in favour of Laravel's built-in fun).
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  I agree Laravel is a bit too much magic, but I’ve found Eloquent to be a top notch ORM. It hasn’t really failed me in any way, so I’d be interested to hear what you specifically disliked about it.
- mablopoule 3y ago
  While I enjoyed my (small) foray into the world of Laravel, I'm happy to see something other than unabashed praise for Laravel here on HN. A technical decision should be done by weighting it's pros and cons, not just by looking at the pros. Agree on the 'Sorting classes by types', it's something I've always found surprising too, and love the car-collection metaphor.

bjablonski 3y ago

I'd start with double-checking permission for using Laravel logo :)

DeathArrow 3y ago

It's there a "default" web framework for Go which most of people use?

imafish 3y ago
My intuition is that Golang people dislike frameworks.
- DeathArrow 3y ago
  So they roll their own stuff each time they do a web app?
  - maccard 3y ago
    A lot of go apps bolt together libraries yeah.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    From what I've seen yes. So in practice every go app is a custom & unique framework. Same problem as react. This was also the norm in php until laravel got popular a few years ago. IMO it's a rough way to make a web page but people keep doing it so it must have some advantages.
  - rmilejczz 3y ago
    It’s not that we roll all our own stuff it’s just that most of us avoid opinionated frameworks. Example I’d wager most go backends are using gorm or sqlx because rolling your own orm would be insane for most
  - jamil7 3y ago
    Not a go dev but I have dabbled. I get the impression that the sweet spot for go is not in building standard crud web apps but for specialised network services and tooling. For those reasons big heavy frameworks don’t seem popular.
  - Philip-J-Fry 3y ago

yevpats 3y ago

Yeah, Go is not a great language for frameworks as it usually works until it absolutely doesn't and then you have to rip that out.

rob74 3y ago
That's not a problem with Go, it's a problem with frameworks: they give you some abstractions, e.g. the Laravel query builder, but they don't cover all the use cases, so you quickly find yourself using "raw" queries anyway. There are some well-established web frameworks for Go (e.g. https://github.com/gin-gonic/gin https://github.com/gin-gonic/gin), but they are controversial too, as most Go developers seem to prefer libraries (that your code calls) instead of frameworks (that call your code and impose their structure upon it). So I don't think just cramming a framework from a completely different language into Go will fly...

ckdot2 3y ago

Please, no. While you can write really clean code in modern PHP, Laravel is a collection of anti-pattern. PHP has a bad reputation because in the past it was hard to implement clean code because of inconsistencies and lacking language features. PHPs reputation should improve, but Laravel is working against it. Please don't bring Laravel to Go.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
alexharrisnyc 3y ago
Can you give a concrete example of what you mean by “Laravel is a collection of anti-pattern?” I would really love to understand what you are referring to.
- mpldr 3y ago
  There was a reddit link posted under another thread, which had a very extensive list.

danielovichdk 3y ago

Goravel. Sounds like Azog or Borgs brother in the Hobbit movies. You can almost hear one of these dudes say it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUa_1FY8rA&pp=ygUPVGhlIGhvYmJpdCBhem9n https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=njUa_1FY8rA&pp=ygUPVGhlIGhvYmJ... Goooravell...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mystersir 3y ago

This framework reminds me of Bud[1], which is also inspired by Laravel. [1] https://github.com/livebud/bud https://github.com/livebud/bud