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The strap is a single point of failure. Each mount should be attached to the seat brackets individually. Those brackets need to be braced and not just bolted th

The strap is a single point of failure. Each mount should be attached to the seat brackets individually. Those brackets need to be braced and not just bolted through plywood. Having patents on innovations is necessary, but if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all. https://patents.google.com/patent/US10967762B2/en?oq=10967762 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10967762B2/en?oq=1096776... This this TOS usual for a piece of regulated safety equipment? Terms of service The legalese. The KIOMA Car Seat is provided “as-is, where-is,” without representations, conditions or warranties of any kind, whether express or implied, including, but not limited to, warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. The recipient or buyer is solely responsible for determining the appropriateness of using the KIOMA Car Seat.

xeonmc 3y ago
[flagged]
- bbor 3y ago
  Don’t think that’s fair - unless they’re selling them out of a boat in international waters to avoid regulation
aquaphile 3y ago
Not sure what you are referring to about a strap being a single point of failure. Patents > We don't work for free, and we can't buy groceries by giving away years of R&D. Companies are welcome to license our safety innovations, and they know how to reach us. The invitation to do so is on our website. TOS > Kioma seats come with an industry standard 1 year warranty. The website TOS are different than the product warranty that comes with each seat. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll have the marketing team clarify that.
- gizmo 3y ago
  “We don’t give years of R&D away for free” is a pretty flippant response. You make money selling car seats, and if another company can produce better seats at a lower price then consumers win and lives are saved. Which is ostensibly exactly what you want to happen? Otherwise why even be in the car seat business?
  - bbor 3y ago
    Cmon be nice to the car seat people :). Let’s say it cost $10 to develop this groundbreaking car seat technology, and $1 to make a car seat, so the company charges $1.50 to make up their investment in 20 sales. If they gave away their patent, then another company (who didn’t have to pay that initial cost) could sell the same seats for $1. This is episode 1000 in our favorite series: why and how capitalism strangles innovation
    - gizmo 3y ago
      The flip side is that R&D is a lot easier and cheaper when you don’t have to worry about accidental infringement. But your last paragraph suggests we’re already in agreement. In any case, I’m fine with companies making the pragmatic choice to pursue patent protection. But being defensive and flippant about it isn’t a good look. It’s much better to argue for instance that you put yourself at a disadvantage if you’re the only business that doesn’t patent their innovations, and that a patent portfolio also has a defensive function.
      - brailsafe 3y ago
        I mean, you could just be more flippant in response and suggest that the best car seat is the one without a car in the first place
      - kodah 3y ago
        > The flip side is that R&D is a lot easier and cheaper when you don’t have to worry about accidental infringement. Not when you're a hardware company. You typically rely on external vendors and long feedback loops between iterations for development and have to pay people along the way and in-between. Your remark that someones is morally obligated to give their innovation away before R&D costs are paid for, or really at all outside of a licensing model, is so far left field it might have a seat with the cars.
fsckboy 3y ago
>if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all...provided “as-is, where-is,” without representations, conditions or warranties of any kind no, individuals should play by the sames rules of the collective as everybody else. There is nothing wrong with you advocating and/or successfully changing the rules of the patent system so all players must behave this way, but trying to shame a small entrepreneur into being boy scout is ihmo bad for all of us. I bristle at all the moralizing people do on the daily. I'm advocating for "think globally, act locally", just without puritanism or maoism.
tadfisher 3y ago
> The strap is a single point of failure. Each mount should be attached to the seat brackets individually. That's not how our Recaro seat works, nor our original baby seat, nor the booster for our older son. Each of them attaches to the seat anchors using a single strap with clips on either end, one on a length adjuster. This design looks pretty much the same; the plywood is just protection for the car upholstery, and doesn't act as a load-bearing element.
- aquaphile 3y ago
  Yes to this.
nso 3y ago
I wonder if there would be a market for in-built hard modular mount points for the back seats. Like, let's say I'm Tesla. I build in mount points for the back seats. And then I sell accessories for the mounts. Tesla branded baby seats. Child seats. Storage/shelf solutions. Dog cages. Pizza delivery rack. Who even knows how many things one could put back there
- nsteel 3y ago
  Like isofix? I think even Teslas have that. Or do I misunderstand?
  - aquaphile 3y ago
    Your Tesla manual may call it Latch (the US version of EU's Isofix). Same thing but different name.
    - jrmrea 3y ago
      Adding to the list of “same thing - different name”: in Canada it’s known as UAS (universal anchorage system)
- IndrekR 3y ago
  It is called Isofix and most modern cars are have those (mandatory in US and EU): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix
mhb 3y ago
if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all. One way would be for you to buy or license the tech and give it away. Is that something you're considering?
- aquaphile 3y ago
  We're happy to license out tech.
aquaphile 3y ago
Any seat belt in an automobile is a single point of failure by your logic. Seat belts are fantastic tech, though. Seat belt webbing is designed to take 11,120 Newtons (FMVSS 209). Textile science is pretty cool.

xeonmc 3y ago

[flagged]

bbor 3y ago
Don’t think that’s fair - unless they’re selling them out of a boat in international waters to avoid regulation

aquaphile 3y ago

Not sure what you are referring to about a strap being a single point of failure. Patents > We don't work for free, and we can't buy groceries by giving away years of R&D. Companies are welcome to license our safety innovations, and they know how to reach us. The invitation to do so is on our website. TOS > Kioma seats come with an industry standard 1 year warranty. The website TOS are different than the product warranty that comes with each seat. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll have the marketing team clarify that.

gizmo 3y ago
“We don’t give years of R&D away for free” is a pretty flippant response. You make money selling car seats, and if another company can produce better seats at a lower price then consumers win and lives are saved. Which is ostensibly exactly what you want to happen? Otherwise why even be in the car seat business?
- bbor 3y ago
  Cmon be nice to the car seat people :). Let’s say it cost $10 to develop this groundbreaking car seat technology, and $1 to make a car seat, so the company charges $1.50 to make up their investment in 20 sales. If they gave away their patent, then another company (who didn’t have to pay that initial cost) could sell the same seats for $1. This is episode 1000 in our favorite series: why and how capitalism strangles innovation
  - gizmo 3y ago
    The flip side is that R&D is a lot easier and cheaper when you don’t have to worry about accidental infringement. But your last paragraph suggests we’re already in agreement. In any case, I’m fine with companies making the pragmatic choice to pursue patent protection. But being defensive and flippant about it isn’t a good look. It’s much better to argue for instance that you put yourself at a disadvantage if you’re the only business that doesn’t patent their innovations, and that a patent portfolio also has a defensive function.
    - brailsafe 3y ago
      I mean, you could just be more flippant in response and suggest that the best car seat is the one without a car in the first place
    - kodah 3y ago
      > The flip side is that R&D is a lot easier and cheaper when you don’t have to worry about accidental infringement. Not when you're a hardware company. You typically rely on external vendors and long feedback loops between iterations for development and have to pay people along the way and in-between. Your remark that someones is morally obligated to give their innovation away before R&D costs are paid for, or really at all outside of a licensing model, is so far left field it might have a seat with the cars.

fsckboy 3y ago

>if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all...provided “as-is, where-is,” without representations, conditions or warranties of any kind no, individuals should play by the sames rules of the collective as everybody else. There is nothing wrong with you advocating and/or successfully changing the rules of the patent system so all players must behave this way, but trying to shame a small entrepreneur into being boy scout is ihmo bad for all of us. I bristle at all the moralizing people do on the daily. I'm advocating for "think globally, act locally", just without puritanism or maoism.

tadfisher 3y ago

> The strap is a single point of failure. Each mount should be attached to the seat brackets individually. That's not how our Recaro seat works, nor our original baby seat, nor the booster for our older son. Each of them attaches to the seat anchors using a single strap with clips on either end, one on a length adjuster. This design looks pretty much the same; the plywood is just protection for the car upholstery, and doesn't act as a load-bearing element.

aquaphile 3y ago
Yes to this.

nso 3y ago

I wonder if there would be a market for in-built hard modular mount points for the back seats. Like, let's say I'm Tesla. I build in mount points for the back seats. And then I sell accessories for the mounts. Tesla branded baby seats. Child seats. Storage/shelf solutions. Dog cages. Pizza delivery rack. Who even knows how many things one could put back there

nsteel 3y ago
Like isofix? I think even Teslas have that. Or do I misunderstand?
- aquaphile 3y ago
  Your Tesla manual may call it Latch (the US version of EU's Isofix). Same thing but different name.
  - jrmrea 3y ago
    Adding to the list of “same thing - different name”: in Canada it’s known as UAS (universal anchorage system)
IndrekR 3y ago
It is called Isofix and most modern cars are have those (mandatory in US and EU): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix

mhb 3y ago

if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all. One way would be for you to buy or license the tech and give it away. Is that something you're considering?

aquaphile 3y ago
We're happy to license out tech.

aquaphile 3y ago

Any seat belt in an automobile is a single point of failure by your logic. Seat belts are fantastic tech, though. Seat belt webbing is designed to take 11,120 Newtons (FMVSS 209). Textile science is pretty cool.