5 ms·

This panic over Pinterest is ridiculous. Why wouldn't photographers want their images shared with credit attributed to them? Isn't that the whole point, especia

This panic over Pinterest is ridiculous. Why wouldn't photographers want their images shared with credit attributed to them? Isn't that the whole point, especially if they make them public in the first place?

gaius 15y ago
It's a common fallacy amongst amateur photographers that professionals will be grateful for the exposure, as it will bring them more work. However, professionals themselves disagree: http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/news/Morel-Wins-Pre-Trial-1388.shtml http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/news/Morel-Wins-Pre-Trial-1388....
- Dylan16807 15y ago
  There is a big difference between using someone's photo without their permission in the work you are creating versus publicly bookmarking their photo. And you can do either of those methods via deep-linking or copying. Even if use A doesn't copy it's still wrong. But I don't think many people will argue that use B is wrong if it doesn't copy.
petegrif 15y ago
They don't necessarily make them 'public' in the sense you suggest. They may make them available for viewing on a site (distribution channel) that they have approved for whatever commercial reasons they see fit. They have chosen the channel and do rights to control that channel because they may well believe that the channel affects the value of the product.
OneBytePerGreen 15y ago
The attribution is not next to the image. A pinterest user would have to click on the picture to be taken to flickr and see the author/username. But how many people will do that if the photo is right there, full size, for viewing/downloading/repinning right on the pinterest page? Most photographers who publish on flickr have a keen interest in their stats: how often their pictures have been viewed etc. With pinterest, the flickr stats do not reflect reality anymore. Thousands of users could enjoy and share the image on pinterest without the author ever knowing about it. No image on the web is safe from copying, but I find it strange that pinterest makes a copy of the image and chooses to show it without clear, evident author attribution (including the "All Rights Reserved" notice, if applicable) when Flickr allows hotlinking and provides an easy api to pull the author and license information.
- bgilroy26 15y ago
  I think that if Pinterest would put a concerted effort in to automated attribution that would be highly commendable. It should be noted that while it's the right thing to do, and that it would be in Pinterest's best interest in the long run, no one has held Reddit or Metafilter or any similar site to such a standard. Artist attribution on Reddit has always been enforced by the community with less-than-stellar results. What's interesting about this situation from a social point of view is looking at the differences between a Pinterest pin and an Imgur upload.
  - OneBytePerGreen 15y ago
    Giving attribution to imgur would be pointless as it is not a site known for original works. My guess is, the percentage of original images uploaded to imgur by the author is a small percentage. What makes the connection between pinterest and flickr so interesting to me is that (if I remember correctly) A THIRD of pinterest images come from flickr, and pinterest thrives on using flickr's awesome repository of images against the law and the spirit under which most of the images were uploaded. I believe I know why they are not hotlinking... if they did, they would immediately get a sh!!load of complaints from flickr authors about their images being used that way. (As anyone can attest who ever hotlinked flickr images on their sites, even WITH author attribution.) If I were flickr, I would implement a feature "Your image has been pinned on pinterest!" with a notice that the views on pinterest will not register in the flickr stats, and allow the author to send a take-down notice to pinterest by pushing a button.
    - bgilroy26 15y ago
      I meant that people upload pictures to Pinterest and they upload pictures to Imgur, but no one would ever worry about the images they uploaded to Imgur, because it's so anonymous. I think Pinterest has managed to attract a different crowd from Reddit/4chan. For Pinterest users, it isn't so important to know that at any moment you can retreat behind a cloak of anonymity, whereas Redditors and 4chan users regard it as a fundamental human right. I'm glad you commented though, I agree with what you're saying and I had no idea about flicker users having a history of people pulling their stuff. That definitely changes the game.
wpietri 15y ago
Try replacing the words "photographer" and "images" with "programmer" and "software". Or "writer" and "article".

gaius 15y ago

It's a common fallacy amongst amateur photographers that professionals will be grateful for the exposure, as it will bring them more work. However, professionals themselves disagree: http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/news/Morel-Wins-Pre-Trial-1388.shtml http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/news/Morel-Wins-Pre-Trial-1388....

Dylan16807 15y ago
There is a big difference between using someone's photo without their permission in the work you are creating versus publicly bookmarking their photo. And you can do either of those methods via deep-linking or copying. Even if use A doesn't copy it's still wrong. But I don't think many people will argue that use B is wrong if it doesn't copy.

petegrif 15y ago

They don't necessarily make them 'public' in the sense you suggest. They may make them available for viewing on a site (distribution channel) that they have approved for whatever commercial reasons they see fit. They have chosen the channel and do rights to control that channel because they may well believe that the channel affects the value of the product.

OneBytePerGreen 15y ago

The attribution is not next to the image. A pinterest user would have to click on the picture to be taken to flickr and see the author/username. But how many people will do that if the photo is right there, full size, for viewing/downloading/repinning right on the pinterest page? Most photographers who publish on flickr have a keen interest in their stats: how often their pictures have been viewed etc. With pinterest, the flickr stats do not reflect reality anymore. Thousands of users could enjoy and share the image on pinterest without the author ever knowing about it. No image on the web is safe from copying, but I find it strange that pinterest makes a copy of the image and chooses to show it without clear, evident author attribution (including the "All Rights Reserved" notice, if applicable) when Flickr allows hotlinking and provides an easy api to pull the author and license information.

bgilroy26 15y ago
I think that if Pinterest would put a concerted effort in to automated attribution that would be highly commendable. It should be noted that while it's the right thing to do, and that it would be in Pinterest's best interest in the long run, no one has held Reddit or Metafilter or any similar site to such a standard. Artist attribution on Reddit has always been enforced by the community with less-than-stellar results. What's interesting about this situation from a social point of view is looking at the differences between a Pinterest pin and an Imgur upload.
- OneBytePerGreen 15y ago
  Giving attribution to imgur would be pointless as it is not a site known for original works. My guess is, the percentage of original images uploaded to imgur by the author is a small percentage. What makes the connection between pinterest and flickr so interesting to me is that (if I remember correctly) A THIRD of pinterest images come from flickr, and pinterest thrives on using flickr's awesome repository of images against the law and the spirit under which most of the images were uploaded. I believe I know why they are not hotlinking... if they did, they would immediately get a sh!!load of complaints from flickr authors about their images being used that way. (As anyone can attest who ever hotlinked flickr images on their sites, even WITH author attribution.) If I were flickr, I would implement a feature "Your image has been pinned on pinterest!" with a notice that the views on pinterest will not register in the flickr stats, and allow the author to send a take-down notice to pinterest by pushing a button.
  - bgilroy26 15y ago
    I meant that people upload pictures to Pinterest and they upload pictures to Imgur, but no one would ever worry about the images they uploaded to Imgur, because it's so anonymous. I think Pinterest has managed to attract a different crowd from Reddit/4chan. For Pinterest users, it isn't so important to know that at any moment you can retreat behind a cloak of anonymity, whereas Redditors and 4chan users regard it as a fundamental human right. I'm glad you commented though, I agree with what you're saying and I had no idea about flicker users having a history of people pulling their stuff. That definitely changes the game.

wpietri 15y ago

Try replacing the words "photographer" and "images" with "programmer" and "software". Or "writer" and "article".