7 ms·

Bigger question how will safe messaging apps exit the market? Will people need a number for a privacy friendly foreign nation to continue access?

tjpnz 3y ago
The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.
- psychphysic 3y ago
  It'll be a matter of installing the app "from unknown source" then?
  - zirgs 3y ago
    Can't do that on iOS.
    - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
      Technically you can, but the hoop jumping isn’t ideal.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      If only iOS devices had web browsers…
    - lrvick 3y ago
      No one using authoritarian computing platforms will fare well at resisting authoritarians.
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    Which, unfortunately, is a rather risky situation considering for instance all the rogue ChatGPT-branded extensions and apps people downloaded without a second thought to their legitimacy. We have been conditioned to view branding as the certificate of legitimacy, and that simply is not true for the Internet where branding can be copied and pasted in seconds.
    - psychphysic 3y ago
      I doubt they still do it but for whatever reason for a while WhatsApp loads to offer it's APK on its website. Bet it saw very few installs wonder if we'll go full circle.
    - noduerme 3y ago
      The risk can be reduced with open source code, verified by the community. Usually when the "branding" gets too authoritarian, people reach for the FOSS version that seems the most trusted.
  - lrvick 3y ago
    Or get signed and trusted apps from a community run alternative "app store" like F-Droid, Arch, or Debian.
- arsome 3y ago
  For something like this you must start blocking at the network level, simply allowing the traffic would make these trivial to bypass via even something as simple as a web browser.
- lrvick 3y ago
  Stop using centralized software distribution systems. F-Droid, Debian etc are run by international communities, support Tor, and cannot be censored as long as we maintain access to the internet.
noduerme 3y ago
This is what the micro-nations were on about, people trying to dredge sand up off reefs and take over drilling platforms since the early 1980s to establish "data havens". The long term trend is that no nation will ultimately resist backdoors on encrypted platforms, because militarily they cannot resist the pressure (internally or externally). The micronation thing is silly, as is relying on a shrinking number of countries which claim they won't enforce these laws. We need satellite-based servers. If I were Musk and had that chain up in the sky, I'd open a simple E2EE Whatsapp for anyone who could ping them directly. At this point, anyone who wants private comms is going to need to go to space for them.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  > If I were Musk and had that chain up in the sky, If you were Musk, and if Musk were some sort of superhero fighter for communications freedom. If Musk wants private communication for himself and his friends, I'm sure he can manage it.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    I shouldn't have said "If I were Musk". That's so douchey. I feel like my 90 year old uncle. I should've said, "If I owned a global chain of communications satellites, I would..." But then again, would I? I'm not so sure. I ditched and walked away from a really brilliant E2EE platform I had built before I launched it in 2012, whose purpose was to touch off and gamify democratic revolutions in totalitarian states, precisely because I had a dream about it being used by nazis in the west to carry out mass organized violence. I woke up and realized it probably would be used for that, and I shut down the whole project. As a matter of fact, I have a 14 page long handwritten note I wrote addressed to Elon Musk warning him not to do things like that when he tries to de-moderate Twitter, which (since I don't know him, and he wouldn't care) I never sent. So yeah, even if I were him, I probably wouldn't do what I just said. But it was a really douchey way that I put it. Sorry.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes because Musk cares about “freedom of speech” as long as it is something he agrees with .
lrvick 3y ago
Federated message systems like Matrix already exist and are unaffected even if legislation like this passes.

tjpnz 3y ago

The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.

psychphysic 3y ago
It'll be a matter of installing the app "from unknown source" then?
- zirgs 3y ago
  Can't do that on iOS.
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    Technically you can, but the hoop jumping isn’t ideal.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    If only iOS devices had web browsers…
  - lrvick 3y ago
    No one using authoritarian computing platforms will fare well at resisting authoritarians.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Which, unfortunately, is a rather risky situation considering for instance all the rogue ChatGPT-branded extensions and apps people downloaded without a second thought to their legitimacy. We have been conditioned to view branding as the certificate of legitimacy, and that simply is not true for the Internet where branding can be copied and pasted in seconds.
  - psychphysic 3y ago
    I doubt they still do it but for whatever reason for a while WhatsApp loads to offer it's APK on its website. Bet it saw very few installs wonder if we'll go full circle.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    The risk can be reduced with open source code, verified by the community. Usually when the "branding" gets too authoritarian, people reach for the FOSS version that seems the most trusted.
- lrvick 3y ago
  Or get signed and trusted apps from a community run alternative "app store" like F-Droid, Arch, or Debian.
arsome 3y ago
For something like this you must start blocking at the network level, simply allowing the traffic would make these trivial to bypass via even something as simple as a web browser.
lrvick 3y ago
Stop using centralized software distribution systems. F-Droid, Debian etc are run by international communities, support Tor, and cannot be censored as long as we maintain access to the internet.

noduerme 3y ago

This is what the micro-nations were on about, people trying to dredge sand up off reefs and take over drilling platforms since the early 1980s to establish "data havens". The long term trend is that no nation will ultimately resist backdoors on encrypted platforms, because militarily they cannot resist the pressure (internally or externally). The micronation thing is silly, as is relying on a shrinking number of countries which claim they won't enforce these laws. We need satellite-based servers. If I were Musk and had that chain up in the sky, I'd open a simple E2EE Whatsapp for anyone who could ping them directly. At this point, anyone who wants private comms is going to need to go to space for them.

pessimizer 3y ago
> If I were Musk and had that chain up in the sky, If you were Musk, and if Musk were some sort of superhero fighter for communications freedom. If Musk wants private communication for himself and his friends, I'm sure he can manage it.
- noduerme 3y ago
  I shouldn't have said "If I were Musk". That's so douchey. I feel like my 90 year old uncle. I should've said, "If I owned a global chain of communications satellites, I would..." But then again, would I? I'm not so sure. I ditched and walked away from a really brilliant E2EE platform I had built before I launched it in 2012, whose purpose was to touch off and gamify democratic revolutions in totalitarian states, precisely because I had a dream about it being used by nazis in the west to carry out mass organized violence. I woke up and realized it probably would be used for that, and I shut down the whole project. As a matter of fact, I have a 14 page long handwritten note I wrote addressed to Elon Musk warning him not to do things like that when he tries to de-moderate Twitter, which (since I don't know him, and he wouldn't care) I never sent. So yeah, even if I were him, I probably wouldn't do what I just said. But it was a really douchey way that I put it. Sorry.
scarface_74 3y ago
Yes because Musk cares about “freedom of speech” as long as it is something he agrees with .

lrvick 3y ago

Federated message systems like Matrix already exist and are unaffected even if legislation like this passes.