5 ms·

> I’d appreciate if you don’t ask for my opinions about things. I feel this. Nice looking web page also.

swyx 3y ago
look i'm as much of a bret victor fanboi as the next guy, but that one felt a little like "whoa ok you're too cool for school now huh"
- indigochill 3y ago
  I vaguely recall a meme somewhere about how ridiculous it is to ask, say, a sports or movie star their opinion on politics or something else that isn't their field just because they're famous. Heck, even within one's field, Bret may have neat ideas about interfaces for programming and attained a sort of celebrity status for some of us, but that doesn't mean he can confidently answer random questions from strangers. He's a researcher, not a guru.
  - the-printer 3y ago
    That last part stands out to me, him being a researcher, that is. I wonder if there is any detriment to the idea of researchers or other “knowledge workers” who use social media at the risk of exposing new developments or ideas to people who may be uninformed or unqualified in regard to whatever the individual is exposing publicly. Could/does this affect what they share or how they/others perceive their work that is shared?
    - gsatic 3y ago
      Sure does. Faraday stopped his EM experiments, not cuz of ignorant ppl, but "great" mathematicians of the day were mocking him for his lack of math skills. Without those experiments, no one would have ever dreamt up electromagnetism. And on the flip side, "qualified" ppl who couldnt grok the math of Maxwell or Heaviside, would dismiss the math as just too complex. This type of stuff happens all the time. Social media amplifies it. But you just have to find good ppl and ignore the herd to make progress. And dont mistake capturing Attention on Social Media or HN for progress.
      - sitkack 3y ago
        Discoveries are always preceded by a long string of "No" and why would you do this? Use good science, but run weird experiments!
  - sph 3y ago
    > I vaguely recall a meme somewhere about how ridiculous it is to ask, say, a sports or movie star their opinion on politics or something else that isn't their field just because they're famous. Jürgen Klopp when asked about this opinion on COVID? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ4bKnpxbYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ4bKnpxbYc — great answer in a time where every-fucking-body had to share their opinion on it, and still do.
    - wpietri 3y ago
      That's so great. Thank you for sharing it.
    - Towaway69 3y ago
      Those are the whites white teeth I have ever seen, incredible. Also the message was great, the combination rarely happens!
- the-printer 3y ago
  I think it conveys a sense of dedication to his work that is at odds with the ever-looming desire to pontificate than it does aloofness toward others. I’m not familiar with him or his work beyond the cursory glance at his Wikipedia page that I made after recognizing the homepage from marginalia.nu binges, but I associated the statement with a certain level of exhaustion, or disinclination rather, from the desire to publicly comment on whatever bleeding edge or attention-grabbing topic a man of his profession and experience may encounter. I have no clue what this guy does with certainty, it sounds sort of Alan Kay-like? But based off this post it sounds like there’s a lot of ground he intends to cover with whatever he’s got going on that requires a lot of thought. Thought that he is reluctant to share at a toot’s notice.
  - pmoriarty 3y ago
    If you're not familiar with him, you could watch his "Inventing on Principle" talk [1] from 11 years ago. Starting at around the 12 minute mark should get you right to the good stuff (though it's all worth watching and thinking about). This is the talk that made him famous. Unfortunately, the demo he showed in that talk never really turned in to a product or movement that revolutionized programming as at the time many of us hoped it might. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII
    - syntheweave 3y ago
      A pitfall of "Inventing on Principle", one which I believe Victor himself later noted, is that the talk is really a modest statement on what bringing some philosophy into your work could do, but it has an overwhelmingly engaging demo. Everyone tried to copy the demo in a kind of "wave of the future next gen programming" hype cycle instead of taking home the concept and trying to put that into work they were already doing. And, having been one of those impressed with the demo, now I look back on it thinking "this business of software is cargo-culting the whole way down, isn't it."
      - brandall10 3y ago
        Light Table was the only real attempt I'm aware of. Any other notables?
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  Tech is extremely boring on social media because there are many more opinions than those truly dedicated to the craft. You can argue that it shouldn’t be zero sum. But time and attention both are, and you can’t focus fully if you’re trying to “grow an audience.”
- justin66 3y ago
  Formulating an opinion worth sharing takes work.
dmazin 3y ago
I just made the mistake of reading a few recent DHH blog posts, and I really appreciate the difference between these two people. Both have a large following, but one sits down and does his work, while the other owns a company and seems physically unable to stop opining.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  The crown of thought leadership is heavy and full of thorns.
- randito 3y ago
  In defense of DHH, a lot of the things he blogs about are completed and successful (to him) company open-source projects. He's sharing what they have done. It's not all bad. A lot of views are contrary and he presents his views strongly, so it's kind of off-putting.
bjornasm 3y ago
I feel that as well. I'm at the point where I am knee deep in my PhD work, and I see that my commitment to that work makes me want to remove myself from other stuff. I just don't want to use any of my energy on anything else, and especially dealing with people in anything but an uncomplicated manner is the last thing I want to do. I am sure it must be doubly so if there is an audience to whatever you say and end up regret. I have often envied how (I romanticize) it was before social media and hyper-connectivity, where you might be able to just fade out a little bit to focus on a project. Its a bit hard to get that long term focus when people expect you to be available and able to reply within the hour. Just saying "no" drains enough as it is. I don't have the backbone to put out that message though.
- OmarShehata 3y ago
  I've echoed this sentiment from time to time and someone recently asked me "Why don't you just disconnect and apologize later?" Might not work for you, but I found this surprisingly liberating: allowing myself to just drop the ball, not respond, or just say "Sorry I can't" with no justification, so I can focus my energy where I need it
adbachman 3y ago
That line was my favorite. It's challenging to be a public figure, present yourself on contemporary social media, and not be pressured (implicitly or explicitly) to speak up on everything. Though I don't read this as being about political or social issues. How else would you have someone politely say, "I'd like to be left alone to do my work, but I'd also like to share with you what I'm working on."
- piuantiderp 3y ago
  What do you mean? "Though I don't read this as being about political or social issues."
  - SamBam 3y ago
    People are more likely to ask Bret about computing issues.
  - adbachman 3y ago
    ha, yeah, that reads as an argument fragment. I didn't express my whole thought. It's the sort of statement that might get someone called out as being somewhere negative on some political spectrum, but I read it here as academic. Dude probably gets absolutely spammed with, "can you read my paper | review my project | comment on this article?" requests.

swyx 3y ago

look i'm as much of a bret victor fanboi as the next guy, but that one felt a little like "whoa ok you're too cool for school now huh"

indigochill 3y ago
I vaguely recall a meme somewhere about how ridiculous it is to ask, say, a sports or movie star their opinion on politics or something else that isn't their field just because they're famous. Heck, even within one's field, Bret may have neat ideas about interfaces for programming and attained a sort of celebrity status for some of us, but that doesn't mean he can confidently answer random questions from strangers. He's a researcher, not a guru.
- the-printer 3y ago
  That last part stands out to me, him being a researcher, that is. I wonder if there is any detriment to the idea of researchers or other “knowledge workers” who use social media at the risk of exposing new developments or ideas to people who may be uninformed or unqualified in regard to whatever the individual is exposing publicly. Could/does this affect what they share or how they/others perceive their work that is shared?
  - gsatic 3y ago
    Sure does. Faraday stopped his EM experiments, not cuz of ignorant ppl, but "great" mathematicians of the day were mocking him for his lack of math skills. Without those experiments, no one would have ever dreamt up electromagnetism. And on the flip side, "qualified" ppl who couldnt grok the math of Maxwell or Heaviside, would dismiss the math as just too complex. This type of stuff happens all the time. Social media amplifies it. But you just have to find good ppl and ignore the herd to make progress. And dont mistake capturing Attention on Social Media or HN for progress.
    - sitkack 3y ago
      Discoveries are always preceded by a long string of "No" and why would you do this? Use good science, but run weird experiments!
- sph 3y ago
  > I vaguely recall a meme somewhere about how ridiculous it is to ask, say, a sports or movie star their opinion on politics or something else that isn't their field just because they're famous. Jürgen Klopp when asked about this opinion on COVID? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ4bKnpxbYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ4bKnpxbYc — great answer in a time where every-fucking-body had to share their opinion on it, and still do.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    That's so great. Thank you for sharing it.
  - Towaway69 3y ago
    Those are the whites white teeth I have ever seen, incredible. Also the message was great, the combination rarely happens!
the-printer 3y ago
I think it conveys a sense of dedication to his work that is at odds with the ever-looming desire to pontificate than it does aloofness toward others. I’m not familiar with him or his work beyond the cursory glance at his Wikipedia page that I made after recognizing the homepage from marginalia.nu binges, but I associated the statement with a certain level of exhaustion, or disinclination rather, from the desire to publicly comment on whatever bleeding edge or attention-grabbing topic a man of his profession and experience may encounter. I have no clue what this guy does with certainty, it sounds sort of Alan Kay-like? But based off this post it sounds like there’s a lot of ground he intends to cover with whatever he’s got going on that requires a lot of thought. Thought that he is reluctant to share at a toot’s notice.
- pmoriarty 3y ago
  If you're not familiar with him, you could watch his "Inventing on Principle" talk [1] from 11 years ago. Starting at around the 12 minute mark should get you right to the good stuff (though it's all worth watching and thinking about). This is the talk that made him famous. Unfortunately, the demo he showed in that talk never really turned in to a product or movement that revolutionized programming as at the time many of us hoped it might. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII
  - syntheweave 3y ago
    A pitfall of "Inventing on Principle", one which I believe Victor himself later noted, is that the talk is really a modest statement on what bringing some philosophy into your work could do, but it has an overwhelmingly engaging demo. Everyone tried to copy the demo in a kind of "wave of the future next gen programming" hype cycle instead of taking home the concept and trying to put that into work they were already doing. And, having been one of those impressed with the demo, now I look back on it thinking "this business of software is cargo-culting the whole way down, isn't it."
    - brandall10 3y ago
      Light Table was the only real attempt I'm aware of. Any other notables?
mattgreenrocks 3y ago
Tech is extremely boring on social media because there are many more opinions than those truly dedicated to the craft. You can argue that it shouldn’t be zero sum. But time and attention both are, and you can’t focus fully if you’re trying to “grow an audience.”
justin66 3y ago
Formulating an opinion worth sharing takes work.

dmazin 3y ago

I just made the mistake of reading a few recent DHH blog posts, and I really appreciate the difference between these two people. Both have a large following, but one sits down and does his work, while the other owns a company and seems physically unable to stop opining.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago
The crown of thought leadership is heavy and full of thorns.
randito 3y ago
In defense of DHH, a lot of the things he blogs about are completed and successful (to him) company open-source projects. He's sharing what they have done. It's not all bad. A lot of views are contrary and he presents his views strongly, so it's kind of off-putting.

bjornasm 3y ago

I feel that as well. I'm at the point where I am knee deep in my PhD work, and I see that my commitment to that work makes me want to remove myself from other stuff. I just don't want to use any of my energy on anything else, and especially dealing with people in anything but an uncomplicated manner is the last thing I want to do. I am sure it must be doubly so if there is an audience to whatever you say and end up regret. I have often envied how (I romanticize) it was before social media and hyper-connectivity, where you might be able to just fade out a little bit to focus on a project. Its a bit hard to get that long term focus when people expect you to be available and able to reply within the hour. Just saying "no" drains enough as it is. I don't have the backbone to put out that message though.

OmarShehata 3y ago
I've echoed this sentiment from time to time and someone recently asked me "Why don't you just disconnect and apologize later?" Might not work for you, but I found this surprisingly liberating: allowing myself to just drop the ball, not respond, or just say "Sorry I can't" with no justification, so I can focus my energy where I need it

adbachman 3y ago

That line was my favorite. It's challenging to be a public figure, present yourself on contemporary social media, and not be pressured (implicitly or explicitly) to speak up on everything. Though I don't read this as being about political or social issues. How else would you have someone politely say, "I'd like to be left alone to do my work, but I'd also like to share with you what I'm working on."

piuantiderp 3y ago
What do you mean? "Though I don't read this as being about political or social issues."
- SamBam 3y ago
  People are more likely to ask Bret about computing issues.
- adbachman 3y ago
  ha, yeah, that reads as an argument fragment. I didn't express my whole thought. It's the sort of statement that might get someone called out as being somewhere negative on some political spectrum, but I read it here as academic. Dude probably gets absolutely spammed with, "can you read my paper | review my project | comment on this article?" requests.