5 ms·

Dunno man, not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. Being able to set my daughter down on a blanket in the grass under a tree while we bbq and

Dunno man, not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. Being able to set my daughter down on a blanket in the grass under a tree while we bbq and make dinner is worth more than aesthetic flourish, although the garden is a constant source of pleasure from March when the crocuses bloom to October when the Dahlia’s finally succumb to the frost.

ddlutz 3y ago
For real, having shared walls is such a detriment to mental health having to hear conversations, music, tv, people taking stairs, it's never quiet. Having your own private yard to have bbqs, play with dogs, etc also sounds amazing.
- avastmick 3y ago
  Isn’t this a building quality concern rather than a concern of building location and style? I live in a townhouse with shared walls on both sides and we never hear our neighbours. I’ve asked them if they hear us (we have teenagers) and one said never, the other said sometimes an occasional thud (teenagers wrestling). Similarly we have a private outdoor space or deck and a shared open area. Both are great and well designed. I think it can be done well. I know too that often it is not.
  - greiskul 3y ago
    Yeah, I live in an apartment building. When I met my neighbor for the first time, she apologized for the noise her kid made. The walls here are of such a good quality, that I didn't even know she had a kid. Can't hear a thing.
- Two4 3y ago
  I concur with the other reply to your comment - Americans (I assume you're American) have a love affair with drywalling and timber framing that astounds me. It seems like it's a recipe for poor soundproofing and massive fire hazard.
- dalke 3y ago
  That's a construction issue. If you're used to the stick-built homes and ballon framing, then the article quote from Vanwyck is right: “The majority of North Americans haven’t experienced high-quality housing, and so they also don’t know what they’re missing and what they can ask for.” In the apartment house I live in Sweden, I hear less of my neighbors than when I lived in a detached house in the US. The walls and floors here are SOLID! I had to get a impact drill so I could install curtains, the concrete is that tough. Some apartment complexes have a private courtyard garden where you can bbq and play with the kids (and play with the dogs, though you'll need to go elsewhere to let them pee and poop), and have the upkeep paid by your rent. Ours doesn't, but our nearest park is across the street and the nearest big playground 5 blocks away, see https://www.google.com/maps/@58.2841034,12.2930193,3a,75y,232.56h,78.24t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPmzeKAtTbo4S3hXG_zOIOzgD7AnLpJ6NkRl5hk!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPmzeKAtTbo4S3hXG_zOIOzgD7AnLpJ6NkRl5hk%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-3.3274095-ya250.76013-ro-4.125688-fo100!7i5376!8i2688?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@58.2841034,12.2930193,3a,75y,23... . And we have several large shared rooms in the basement where the kids can play on wet dreary days, or hold a birthday party or, in my case, work during the COVID restriction years. Now, I hate mowing and gardening, which is why I also paid someone to do it for me in the US. For those who like it, I can totally see how having a yard would support that hobby.
- unmole 3y ago
  > For real, having shared walls is such a detriment to mental health The fact that you can hear your neighbors through the wall is a sign of terrible design and construction choices. Hell, most sane apartment layouts minimise if not eliminate shared walls entirely.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. Build proper walls! It get that average Joe in the anglosphere is clueless when it comes to aparments, bike lanes and other uncommon issues, but why are planners illiterate too? Even when they invest the top dollar, they still can't get it right. I lived in an apartment in Czech republic and never heard my neighbours, never had a noise complaint. Moved to UK, and in a terraced house I could hear my neighboir's baby crying. Had neighbours call police over parry noise in a detached house (!). Wtf. I was shocked to discover that in UK separations between apartments are just made of drywall - thats a security risk! In Czech republic the apartment building has a yard, a lawn, a space for a barbeque and a playground for kids. This is not rocket science. Apartment in UK has a concrete courtyard that looks like a prison, and a tiny lawn in the front with a big sign "no ball games" and "do not step on the grass". Ex-communist countries actually know how to build apartments that work, any shorcoming are due to lack of money. If you pay top dollar, you get nice and livable apartments. In Anglosphere, apartments suck no matter how much you pay, either the planners can't read or learning from counties with the most experience is beneath them.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Walls in still communist country like China are built out of concrete and use lower skilled labor (as a jobs program for migrant workers), so are incredibly overbuilt. They are at a thickness that would fly in developed countries, so more material is wasted, and you get fewer stories than more advanced techniques (limited to about 30 stories). You don’t hear your neighbors, but the building is likely to look like a brutalist tear down in 20-30 years without lots of extra maintenance. You are still paying $1 million for a two bedroom apartment in Beijing even though that brand new building is probably coming down in 30 years or less. Not sure if buildings are like that in the Czech Republic, although the Chinese learned these techniques from the soviets so it wouldn’t surprise me.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > that brand new building is probably coming down in 30 years or less. Why do you think so? That's extremely short, even the worst quality soviet blocks last more. Europe has some apartment blocks that are 200 years old.
praxulus 3y ago
I moved into a house with a yard last year and since the spring it has been nothing but a source of extra chores. Even my dog doesn't care much for it, he's happier going for a walk around the neighborhood. Different people have different tastes and preferences. Of the ~30,000 municipalities in the country, we have exactly one that resembles the high density walkable/transit-oriented city described above. Do you really think that ratio accurately reflects Americans' preferences?
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Exactly One? There's at least most of NYC, Boston, & Chicago.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
vkou 3y ago
> Dunno man, not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. And listening to their leafblowers/lawnmowers/other yard tools blasting a thousand decibels of noise on the weekends is?
- applied_heat 3y ago
  People generally don’t make a lot of noise very early or very late so I don’t find it any more disruptive than the train I can hear tooting it’s horn as it crosses town. A lot of the mowers etc are turning over to electric so the cacaphony of weekend 2 strikes is fading away
peterpost2 3y ago
A decent appartment building will allow you to do all of that as well.

ddlutz 3y ago

For real, having shared walls is such a detriment to mental health having to hear conversations, music, tv, people taking stairs, it's never quiet. Having your own private yard to have bbqs, play with dogs, etc also sounds amazing.

avastmick 3y ago
Isn’t this a building quality concern rather than a concern of building location and style? I live in a townhouse with shared walls on both sides and we never hear our neighbours. I’ve asked them if they hear us (we have teenagers) and one said never, the other said sometimes an occasional thud (teenagers wrestling). Similarly we have a private outdoor space or deck and a shared open area. Both are great and well designed. I think it can be done well. I know too that often it is not.
- greiskul 3y ago
  Yeah, I live in an apartment building. When I met my neighbor for the first time, she apologized for the noise her kid made. The walls here are of such a good quality, that I didn't even know she had a kid. Can't hear a thing.
Two4 3y ago
I concur with the other reply to your comment - Americans (I assume you're American) have a love affair with drywalling and timber framing that astounds me. It seems like it's a recipe for poor soundproofing and massive fire hazard.
dalke 3y ago
That's a construction issue. If you're used to the stick-built homes and ballon framing, then the article quote from Vanwyck is right: “The majority of North Americans haven’t experienced high-quality housing, and so they also don’t know what they’re missing and what they can ask for.” In the apartment house I live in Sweden, I hear less of my neighbors than when I lived in a detached house in the US. The walls and floors here are SOLID! I had to get a impact drill so I could install curtains, the concrete is that tough. Some apartment complexes have a private courtyard garden where you can bbq and play with the kids (and play with the dogs, though you'll need to go elsewhere to let them pee and poop), and have the upkeep paid by your rent. Ours doesn't, but our nearest park is across the street and the nearest big playground 5 blocks away, see https://www.google.com/maps/@58.2841034,12.2930193,3a,75y,232.56h,78.24t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPmzeKAtTbo4S3hXG_zOIOzgD7AnLpJ6NkRl5hk!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPmzeKAtTbo4S3hXG_zOIOzgD7AnLpJ6NkRl5hk%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-3.3274095-ya250.76013-ro-4.125688-fo100!7i5376!8i2688?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@58.2841034,12.2930193,3a,75y,23... . And we have several large shared rooms in the basement where the kids can play on wet dreary days, or hold a birthday party or, in my case, work during the COVID restriction years. Now, I hate mowing and gardening, which is why I also paid someone to do it for me in the US. For those who like it, I can totally see how having a yard would support that hobby.
unmole 3y ago
> For real, having shared walls is such a detriment to mental health The fact that you can hear your neighbors through the wall is a sign of terrible design and construction choices. Hell, most sane apartment layouts minimise if not eliminate shared walls entirely.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. Build proper walls! It get that average Joe in the anglosphere is clueless when it comes to aparments, bike lanes and other uncommon issues, but why are planners illiterate too? Even when they invest the top dollar, they still can't get it right. I lived in an apartment in Czech republic and never heard my neighbours, never had a noise complaint. Moved to UK, and in a terraced house I could hear my neighboir's baby crying. Had neighbours call police over parry noise in a detached house (!). Wtf. I was shocked to discover that in UK separations between apartments are just made of drywall - thats a security risk! In Czech republic the apartment building has a yard, a lawn, a space for a barbeque and a playground for kids. This is not rocket science. Apartment in UK has a concrete courtyard that looks like a prison, and a tiny lawn in the front with a big sign "no ball games" and "do not step on the grass". Ex-communist countries actually know how to build apartments that work, any shorcoming are due to lack of money. If you pay top dollar, you get nice and livable apartments. In Anglosphere, apartments suck no matter how much you pay, either the planners can't read or learning from counties with the most experience is beneath them.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Walls in still communist country like China are built out of concrete and use lower skilled labor (as a jobs program for migrant workers), so are incredibly overbuilt. They are at a thickness that would fly in developed countries, so more material is wasted, and you get fewer stories than more advanced techniques (limited to about 30 stories). You don’t hear your neighbors, but the building is likely to look like a brutalist tear down in 20-30 years without lots of extra maintenance. You are still paying $1 million for a two bedroom apartment in Beijing even though that brand new building is probably coming down in 30 years or less. Not sure if buildings are like that in the Czech Republic, although the Chinese learned these techniques from the soviets so it wouldn’t surprise me.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > that brand new building is probably coming down in 30 years or less. Why do you think so? That's extremely short, even the worst quality soviet blocks last more. Europe has some apartment blocks that are 200 years old.

praxulus 3y ago

I moved into a house with a yard last year and since the spring it has been nothing but a source of extra chores. Even my dog doesn't care much for it, he's happier going for a walk around the neighborhood. Different people have different tastes and preferences. Of the ~30,000 municipalities in the country, we have exactly one that resembles the high density walkable/transit-oriented city described above. Do you really think that ratio accurately reflects Americans' preferences?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Exactly One? There's at least most of NYC, Boston, & Chicago.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

vkou 3y ago

> Dunno man, not hearing my neighbors conversations is quite pleasant. And listening to their leafblowers/lawnmowers/other yard tools blasting a thousand decibels of noise on the weekends is?

applied_heat 3y ago
People generally don’t make a lot of noise very early or very late so I don’t find it any more disruptive than the train I can hear tooting it’s horn as it crosses town. A lot of the mowers etc are turning over to electric so the cacaphony of weekend 2 strikes is fading away

peterpost2 3y ago

A decent appartment building will allow you to do all of that as well.