4 ms·

Several startups back, I worked for a pompous boss, ex-Goldman-VP, who told me that people who get masters are worse programmers, especially if it's from a bett

Several startups back, I worked for a pompous boss, ex-Goldman-VP, who told me that people who get masters are worse programmers, especially if it's from a better school than their bachelor's. You'll be surprised how many nutty biases people have out there.

totoglazer 3y ago
Isn’t this a pretty universally held opinion?
- sgillen 3y ago
  I haven’t seen this bias personally, what is the thought process behind it? If they were any good they would just have gotten a job or something?
  - totoglazer 3y ago
    Exactly. The cynical view: If you were any good you wouldn’t need the master’s degree. If you were good and wanted to learn more you’d do a PhD. But you didn’t learn what you were supposed to in undergrad, or could not get/do a job, or need a visa. So you paid a bunch of money to some school that wouldn’t let you into undergrad or a PhD, but will take your cash for a full fare professional masters degree mill. I’ve seen this in industry and in academia.
    - wink 3y ago
      See my other comment, would be fascinating to know if the general perception has changed in countries where the Bachelor's + Master's system has not be the norm forever, i.e. 10-15y ago I knew no one who only did a Bachelor's, then a few started doing that in Computer Science, but still kinda rare. Maybe it's different now. (Of course the degrees still being basically free compared to the US makes a huge difference if you're willing to stay another year or two..)
      - ajkjk 3y ago
        I think it's very much a US-centric thing.
    - tkiolp4 3y ago
      I guess this applies to places like the US. In Europe, a master’s degree costs the same as a BS (close to nothing).
Hydraulix989 3y ago
As strange as it is, I think there's validity to it. Master's degrees filter more on having the money to cover tuition than test scores, and it's easier to just buy your way into a good school than with undergraduate. I remember taking courses alongside Master's students who were anecdotally less impressive than my fellow undergraduates. This experience (along with my dwindling pocketbook) helped dissuade me from staying the extra year or so, rather than immediately starting work.
- dsgsdgsdsda 3y ago
  Strongly disagree. You can get a full masters from UT Austin with specialization in AI/ML for about $10k. Fully remote. https://cdso.utexas.edu/msai https://cdso.utexas.edu/msai . Compared to a typical bachelors which is what, about $50k?
  - Hydraulix989 3y ago
    Bachelors degrees from selective private schools now cost $50k/year. Rather than spending an extra year getting a state school masters, you can also gain a year of ML work experience for a net positive six figures first year out of school. Which is more valuable?
    - twelve40 3y ago
      I think it's 100% individual. I didn't feel like I learned enough, so I stayed in grad school. If you feel otherwise, you absolutely should follow you own path. I've interviewed and worked with hundreds, ranging from bootcamp to PhD, ivy league to city college, and i've seen so many - both - failures and successes, that reducing signals even to education in general, let alone some specific combo of it, without hearing out the person first, is a straight up bias.
- ido 3y ago
  In well-funded fields with lots of jobs (like CS) graduate students often don't have to pay tuition (or heavily subsidized tuition). Everyone I know that got a Masters/PhD in CS actually got paid for it (it was like a job at the university, albeit not as well paid as working in tech). Very different in the humanities.
tharkun__ 3y ago
And I've heard such people say the opposite. "Oh, Bachelor? You mean those guys that are certified failed university 'grads'?" As in, master's is what it's at. Anything below it and you might as well not have gone to university.

totoglazer 3y ago

Isn’t this a pretty universally held opinion?

sgillen 3y ago
I haven’t seen this bias personally, what is the thought process behind it? If they were any good they would just have gotten a job or something?
- totoglazer 3y ago
  Exactly. The cynical view: If you were any good you wouldn’t need the master’s degree. If you were good and wanted to learn more you’d do a PhD. But you didn’t learn what you were supposed to in undergrad, or could not get/do a job, or need a visa. So you paid a bunch of money to some school that wouldn’t let you into undergrad or a PhD, but will take your cash for a full fare professional masters degree mill. I’ve seen this in industry and in academia.
  - wink 3y ago
    See my other comment, would be fascinating to know if the general perception has changed in countries where the Bachelor's + Master's system has not be the norm forever, i.e. 10-15y ago I knew no one who only did a Bachelor's, then a few started doing that in Computer Science, but still kinda rare. Maybe it's different now. (Of course the degrees still being basically free compared to the US makes a huge difference if you're willing to stay another year or two..)
    - ajkjk 3y ago
      I think it's very much a US-centric thing.
  - tkiolp4 3y ago
    I guess this applies to places like the US. In Europe, a master’s degree costs the same as a BS (close to nothing).

Hydraulix989 3y ago

As strange as it is, I think there's validity to it. Master's degrees filter more on having the money to cover tuition than test scores, and it's easier to just buy your way into a good school than with undergraduate. I remember taking courses alongside Master's students who were anecdotally less impressive than my fellow undergraduates. This experience (along with my dwindling pocketbook) helped dissuade me from staying the extra year or so, rather than immediately starting work.

dsgsdgsdsda 3y ago
Strongly disagree. You can get a full masters from UT Austin with specialization in AI/ML for about $10k. Fully remote. https://cdso.utexas.edu/msai https://cdso.utexas.edu/msai . Compared to a typical bachelors which is what, about $50k?
- Hydraulix989 3y ago
  Bachelors degrees from selective private schools now cost $50k/year. Rather than spending an extra year getting a state school masters, you can also gain a year of ML work experience for a net positive six figures first year out of school. Which is more valuable?
  - twelve40 3y ago
    I think it's 100% individual. I didn't feel like I learned enough, so I stayed in grad school. If you feel otherwise, you absolutely should follow you own path. I've interviewed and worked with hundreds, ranging from bootcamp to PhD, ivy league to city college, and i've seen so many - both - failures and successes, that reducing signals even to education in general, let alone some specific combo of it, without hearing out the person first, is a straight up bias.
ido 3y ago
In well-funded fields with lots of jobs (like CS) graduate students often don't have to pay tuition (or heavily subsidized tuition). Everyone I know that got a Masters/PhD in CS actually got paid for it (it was like a job at the university, albeit not as well paid as working in tech). Very different in the humanities.

tharkun__ 3y ago

And I've heard such people say the opposite. "Oh, Bachelor? You mean those guys that are certified failed university 'grads'?" As in, master's is what it's at. Anything below it and you might as well not have gone to university.