2 ms·

> But you can favor people for other reasons, which may result in more people of a certain race. That doesnt violate the Civil Rights Act. I don't know where y

> But you can favor people for other reasons, which may result in more people of a certain race. That doesnt violate the Civil Rights Act. I don't know where you got that idea from but it's not true. There's plenty of precedent that using a proxy for a protected class to discriminate violates the CRA. If elite institutions have favored people based on a protected class in the past, then preferring their children is likely to perpetuate that same discrimination in many cases (religion, race, ethnicity) that are inherited or inculcated. Obviously not for others (gender, sexual orientation, veteran status) that aren't inherited. I saw that you were supportive of ending affirmative action. This is basically the same thing.

nonethewiser 3y ago
> I don't know where you got that idea from but it's not true. There's plenty of precedent that using a proxy for a protected class to discriminate violates the CRA. You’re assuming unequal outcomes means there is something being used as a proxy for race. In a merit based system you would take the best students and judge by grades and test scores. This would have unequal outcomes.
- triceratops 3y ago
  You don't have to measure outcomes at all. Harvard has had discriminatory admissions criteria in the past. Many axes of discrimination are inherited. Ergo preferring children of Harvard alumni causes that same discrimination, but with a new name ("legacy admission").
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    > You don't have to measure outcomes at all. I think I compete agree with this. > Harvard has had discriminatory admissions criteria in the past. Many axes of discrimination are inherited. Ergo preferring children of Harvard alumni causes that same discrimination, but with a new name ("legacy admission"). But are you saying legacy admission are unfair or illegal? “Discriminatory” admissions practices are not necessarily illegal (by gender) nor even bad (by grades).
    - triceratops 3y ago
      They're definitely unfair. The courts will decide if they're illegal. IMO they should be, because they're one step removed from already-illegal discrimination: based on race, religion, ethnicity, and country of origin.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
See also, the origin of "grandfather clause": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause#Southern_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause#Southern_Un...

nonethewiser 3y ago

> I don't know where you got that idea from but it's not true. There's plenty of precedent that using a proxy for a protected class to discriminate violates the CRA. You’re assuming unequal outcomes means there is something being used as a proxy for race. In a merit based system you would take the best students and judge by grades and test scores. This would have unequal outcomes.

triceratops 3y ago
You don't have to measure outcomes at all. Harvard has had discriminatory admissions criteria in the past. Many axes of discrimination are inherited. Ergo preferring children of Harvard alumni causes that same discrimination, but with a new name ("legacy admission").
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > You don't have to measure outcomes at all. I think I compete agree with this. > Harvard has had discriminatory admissions criteria in the past. Many axes of discrimination are inherited. Ergo preferring children of Harvard alumni causes that same discrimination, but with a new name ("legacy admission"). But are you saying legacy admission are unfair or illegal? “Discriminatory” admissions practices are not necessarily illegal (by gender) nor even bad (by grades).
  - triceratops 3y ago
    They're definitely unfair. The courts will decide if they're illegal. IMO they should be, because they're one step removed from already-illegal discrimination: based on race, religion, ethnicity, and country of origin.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

See also, the origin of "grandfather clause": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause#Southern_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause#Southern_Un...