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> they're definitely not corrupt. Mate, every regulator in Ireland is corrupt. Every single one. GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. Túsla - corrupt. Ask Mc

> they're definitely not corrupt. Mate, every regulator in Ireland is corrupt. Every single one. GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all?

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Ok so I had to get out my laptop here, as there's a bunch of details. > GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. I'm pretty sure you mean the Gardai Siochana, rather than a (relatively recent) regulator of theres. The Guards actually bugged their offices, which is both super corrupt and not talked about enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal > Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. They believed the Guards, who I definitely agree are in fact, corrupt. Fun fact, my cousin has been fighting said corruption for like twenty years, with the result that he'll almost certainly never be promoted. > Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. I 100% agree that the CB were diabolically bad during the boom, but I'm not sure that they were corrupt. They basically took the same approach as the UK, which is both sadly normal and stupid, but I don't see evidence of corruption here, can you be more specific? > The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. I have no evidence either for or against this proposition, so I will say no more. > Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. I too hate sitka spruce everywhere, but not sure how this links to corruption, can you clarify? > The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. The construction industry is indeed a mafia (I worked in it for a number of years), but I'm not sure how that relates to regulators in ireland being corrupt? > Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. 10's of millions? 1.25 million surely? Don't get me wrong, I agree it was incredibly tone deaf and stupid (seriously, if Turbridy/any of the rest of them think they can get more money elsewhere then they should do that). That one is particularly bad, given that the CFO didn't know anything about an account, but RTE are not a regulator, so it doesn't have much to do with your current point. > FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. They've been in government together or separately since the foundation of the State, at what point do the people (i.e. us) who voted for them become responsible (note to non-Irish readers: we have a PR system and lots of other parties, we just keep voting for the incompetents). The two of them have also presided over an economic miracle in that I grew up in a very poor country and we're now much, much richer. You could argue that that's not down to them, but then why are you blaming them for the bad parts? > We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. 44k actually :( https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ > So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all? Because nobody in ireland that is politically powerful profits from a weak DPC. Generally, our corruption is related to either farmers, lawyers or builders making out like bandits (and the Guards, who are just terrible and have been for far too long). Nobody in the upper echelons of Irish society gives a toss about data protection or tech in general. It's just garden variety lack of resources and incompetence, I'm afraid. The DPC has been begging for more money and resources for a long time, which does not seem like the actions of a corrupt regulator. There's essentially no revolving door (I looked to see if the DPC would hire me as an experienced data scientist with a background in policy and they just want lawyers unfortunately). > who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years Look, again I'm not saying the DPC have done an amazing job here, but fundamentally the DPC keep making judgements and FB keep challenging them in court. While I may not like the amount of time this takes, I do like living in a system where regulators don't ignore the courts and hand down unchallengable judgements (and I reckon you do too, in general if not in this specific case). Also, the EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this (though a much larger proportion of the monetisable population).
- mandmandam 3y ago
  Re GSOC: Being as quiet and toothless as they have been towards the Gardai strongly implies corruption. What have they done regarding the Templemore scandal, or the Penalty Points scandal, or the breath test scandal, the dodgy evictions with balaclaved anonymous unlicensed Northern thugs, or how Shell protesters were treated, or even the surveillance of their own office which you yourself brought up? What use are they at all? Every week on the ireland subreddit there's a huge thread, where people complain about how utterly useless the GS are - ignoring serious crimes, ignoring theft when there's video proof. The buck for that stops at GSOC. GSOC aren't just not doing anything about all this, they're not even opening their mouths! Re the CB: What did the CB do after 2008? Next to nothing. What did they do after Sugarman was proven right - congratulate him? Apologize? Give him a job? Nope, nope nope - they did nothing. Sugarman has been blacklisted all over the globe. Have you seen your bank fees recently? Ever noticed how they always rise across every Irish bank at the same time, or how the CB is fine with that? Re Túsla - You seem unaware of that bs "copy and paste error" story, which we were expected to swallow (even after the GS tried to frame McCabe with Fr. Molloy's hard drives). That story went right up to multiple Garda Commissioners and the Minister for Justice, who was incredibly found not guilty in a Tribunal then sent to the EU (!). Re the CRU - You can't get evidence, because they're unaccountable. By EU law, they're mandated to publish figures and accounts of the fines they hand out - but they don't. I asked them directly for those figures on multiple occasions, and was completely ignored. Re Coillte - I for one find the forest and woodlands regulatory destroying our land and soil, selling it off for cheap wood, corrupt; as do many groups who try to protect our biodiversity. If you think there aren't brown envelopes involved, and it's just incompetence, I've a lovely wooden bridge to sell you. Re CRH - you don't see how a massive industry acting like a mafia doesn't point to corrupt regulation? Dunno what to tell you on that one so. Re RTE - yes, it's tens of millions. It wasn't just Tubridy you know. They were giving quiet kickbacks of at least 50 million euro to ad agencies as well. And they've a long, long history of ignoring corruption in Ireland, unless there was someone left wing involved. For example, there's been eight attempts by PrimeTime to do a story on CRH - each time, a higher up has scuppered it last minute. Re blaming FF and FG's victims - us - When the judiciary, the gardai, and the media are all bought and all corrupt, I myself find it hard to put too much blame on the people who have been robbed, lied to, gaslit, pressured, and put upon for decades; just trying to scrabble enough together to own their house and pay their bills, which has gotten so much harder in the past couple decades. Re the DPC - You think no one in power benefits from a weak DPC? You might want to see how close of a link there is between big Tech and FFG leadership. The history of quiet unlogged meetings, the shared, unadvertised conferences, the statements of support, etc. You think any politician wants FB's algorithm going against them? > The EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this I may be wrong about this, but I'd imagine it's not only EU people who have their data moving through FB's Irish centers. The legal complexities and implications are over my head on that one, but can we at least agree that ~10% of the world is still a lot of people?

disgruntledphd2 3y ago

Ok so I had to get out my laptop here, as there's a bunch of details. > GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. I'm pretty sure you mean the Gardai Siochana, rather than a (relatively recent) regulator of theres. The Guards actually bugged their offices, which is both super corrupt and not talked about enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal > Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. They believed the Guards, who I definitely agree are in fact, corrupt. Fun fact, my cousin has been fighting said corruption for like twenty years, with the result that he'll almost certainly never be promoted. > Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. I 100% agree that the CB were diabolically bad during the boom, but I'm not sure that they were corrupt. They basically took the same approach as the UK, which is both sadly normal and stupid, but I don't see evidence of corruption here, can you be more specific? > The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. I have no evidence either for or against this proposition, so I will say no more. > Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. I too hate sitka spruce everywhere, but not sure how this links to corruption, can you clarify? > The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. The construction industry is indeed a mafia (I worked in it for a number of years), but I'm not sure how that relates to regulators in ireland being corrupt? > Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. 10's of millions? 1.25 million surely? Don't get me wrong, I agree it was incredibly tone deaf and stupid (seriously, if Turbridy/any of the rest of them think they can get more money elsewhere then they should do that). That one is particularly bad, given that the CFO didn't know anything about an account, but RTE are not a regulator, so it doesn't have much to do with your current point. > FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. They've been in government together or separately since the foundation of the State, at what point do the people (i.e. us) who voted for them become responsible (note to non-Irish readers: we have a PR system and lots of other parties, we just keep voting for the incompetents). The two of them have also presided over an economic miracle in that I grew up in a very poor country and we're now much, much richer. You could argue that that's not down to them, but then why are you blaming them for the bad parts? > We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. 44k actually :( https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ > So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all? Because nobody in ireland that is politically powerful profits from a weak DPC. Generally, our corruption is related to either farmers, lawyers or builders making out like bandits (and the Guards, who are just terrible and have been for far too long). Nobody in the upper echelons of Irish society gives a toss about data protection or tech in general. It's just garden variety lack of resources and incompetence, I'm afraid. The DPC has been begging for more money and resources for a long time, which does not seem like the actions of a corrupt regulator. There's essentially no revolving door (I looked to see if the DPC would hire me as an experienced data scientist with a background in policy and they just want lawyers unfortunately). > who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years Look, again I'm not saying the DPC have done an amazing job here, but fundamentally the DPC keep making judgements and FB keep challenging them in court. While I may not like the amount of time this takes, I do like living in a system where regulators don't ignore the courts and hand down unchallengable judgements (and I reckon you do too, in general if not in this specific case). Also, the EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this (though a much larger proportion of the monetisable population).

mandmandam 3y ago
Re GSOC: Being as quiet and toothless as they have been towards the Gardai strongly implies corruption. What have they done regarding the Templemore scandal, or the Penalty Points scandal, or the breath test scandal, the dodgy evictions with balaclaved anonymous unlicensed Northern thugs, or how Shell protesters were treated, or even the surveillance of their own office which you yourself brought up? What use are they at all? Every week on the ireland subreddit there's a huge thread, where people complain about how utterly useless the GS are - ignoring serious crimes, ignoring theft when there's video proof. The buck for that stops at GSOC. GSOC aren't just not doing anything about all this, they're not even opening their mouths! Re the CB: What did the CB do after 2008? Next to nothing. What did they do after Sugarman was proven right - congratulate him? Apologize? Give him a job? Nope, nope nope - they did nothing. Sugarman has been blacklisted all over the globe. Have you seen your bank fees recently? Ever noticed how they always rise across every Irish bank at the same time, or how the CB is fine with that? Re Túsla - You seem unaware of that bs "copy and paste error" story, which we were expected to swallow (even after the GS tried to frame McCabe with Fr. Molloy's hard drives). That story went right up to multiple Garda Commissioners and the Minister for Justice, who was incredibly found not guilty in a Tribunal then sent to the EU (!). Re the CRU - You can't get evidence, because they're unaccountable. By EU law, they're mandated to publish figures and accounts of the fines they hand out - but they don't. I asked them directly for those figures on multiple occasions, and was completely ignored. Re Coillte - I for one find the forest and woodlands regulatory destroying our land and soil, selling it off for cheap wood, corrupt; as do many groups who try to protect our biodiversity. If you think there aren't brown envelopes involved, and it's just incompetence, I've a lovely wooden bridge to sell you. Re CRH - you don't see how a massive industry acting like a mafia doesn't point to corrupt regulation? Dunno what to tell you on that one so. Re RTE - yes, it's tens of millions. It wasn't just Tubridy you know. They were giving quiet kickbacks of at least 50 million euro to ad agencies as well. And they've a long, long history of ignoring corruption in Ireland, unless there was someone left wing involved. For example, there's been eight attempts by PrimeTime to do a story on CRH - each time, a higher up has scuppered it last minute. Re blaming FF and FG's victims - us - When the judiciary, the gardai, and the media are all bought and all corrupt, I myself find it hard to put too much blame on the people who have been robbed, lied to, gaslit, pressured, and put upon for decades; just trying to scrabble enough together to own their house and pay their bills, which has gotten so much harder in the past couple decades. Re the DPC - You think no one in power benefits from a weak DPC? You might want to see how close of a link there is between big Tech and FFG leadership. The history of quiet unlogged meetings, the shared, unadvertised conferences, the statements of support, etc. You think any politician wants FB's algorithm going against them? > The EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this I may be wrong about this, but I'd imagine it's not only EU people who have their data moving through FB's Irish centers. The legal complexities and implications are over my head on that one, but can we at least agree that ~10% of the world is still a lot of people?