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This level of dependence on certain tools is neither rare nor unprecedented. Your run-of-the-mill business drone will be trained on Word/Excel/Outlook and be h

This level of dependence on certain tools is neither rare nor unprecedented. Your run-of-the-mill business drone will be trained on Word/Excel/Outlook and be hard to impossible to retrain on anything else (either because of actual stupidity or resistance to change). This already starts at school where "Informatik" is often just learning where to click in Microsoft products. Similarly, tradespeople often specialize in certain tools and products. Your average car repair guy will often be forced to specialize in one brand of car. Your home appliance guy will preferrably sell and repair one brand of washing machine, dryer, dishwasher.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Your average car repair guy will often be forced to specialize in one brand of car. Not because of skill issues, but maybe forced because they work for a dealership that sells a particular make exclusively or, less often, a specialty shop; most “car repair guys” outside of those environments have to be generalists. > Your home appliance guy will preferrably sell and repair one brand of washing machine, dryer, dishwasher. IME, the sales are done by shops that carry many brands, and delivery, installation, repair donw by firms that often have relations with the retailers and handle whatever you get from them, including multiple unita of different brands that come together with the same team. They may also have relations with the manufacturers, but those don’t seem usually to be exclusive.
- ori_prior 3y ago
  > Not because of skill issues, but maybe forced because they work for a dealership that sells a particular make exclusively or, less often, a specialty shop; most “car repair guys” outside of those environments have to be generalists. Yes, I'd expect any car guy to be able to change your tires. Or change your oil. But even resetting the oil-change alarm or tire-pressure sensor can be a hurdle here: Manufacturers also use skill issues to their advantage to bind tradespeople. Modern cars do need manufacturer-specific diagnostic devices that used to be unobtainable for independent shops. Since that practice has been largely forbidden by the authorities, now the software, cabling, and diagnostic output are made intentionally hard to understand without having taken the corresponding lessons that the manufacturer provides for a modest fee.
  - TheCapn 3y ago
    Perhaps you're using a broad/generic example to try and make the point but I'll say this: If a seasoned mechanic is unable to figure out how to reset the Maintenance Reminder or look up how to sync Tire Pressure sensors, run away. In the same way that one can use knowledge of one programming language as a means to leapfrog into other languages, other skilled trades are similar. Perhaps there's something that could be said about an ICE mechanic trying to dabble on Electric but that's not the point you're making. So yeah. I know you're trying to make a point about lock in, but when I think of people I want to hire for tasks who might say "Oh, sorry, you have a Volkswagen and I only know how to work on GMC" I wouldn't take my GMC to them either. It shows a fundamental lack of skill in that they don't understand the broader concepts and their universal applications. If I, a programmer, can figure out my Volkswagen, my GMC, my Mazda, my Nissan, certainly a mechanic can. If my appliance repair specialist can only do Whirlpool when I ask for help on a Bosch that's red flags. One might specialize. Sure. But to refuse? Weird. But I fear I might be getting lost in the weeds here because its all about the approach. "Sorry, too busy to take on work on things that aren't my specialty": yep, understood. "Sorry, I don't know <model> I only know <other model>" bad.
    - ozim 3y ago
      Try to get a French car in Poland, most shops are used to deal with VW, Audi. It is not impossible but if you try to go to a random shop you found on Google and fix your Citroen or Renault you might be surprised.
      - wisty 3y ago
        It could just be a parts issue. A lot of mechanics will work on pretty much any car, if they have the parts, but if it's not a popular model then they don't want it sitting in their shop for a week while they order parts. I guess some mechanics will prefer to work with a smaller number of models, because they're much faster if they're familiar with the model, but new models come out every year, and they need to learn how to fix those. If a mechanic can learn to fix the newest VW, they can learn to fix the newest Renault, it just might not be worth their time if they have enough work to do.
jhartwig 3y ago
'actual stupidity'... gotta love the general disdain of the 'run of the mill business drone'... It's funny my wife is a run of the mill business drone. She thinks IT is a bunch of assholes. I would say she is probably right. Way to keep things going.
- majesticglue 3y ago
  and IT "assholes" think the run of the mill business drones are "assholes" as well. Their inability to be effective at their jobs tend to make IT lives worse because they can't understand what IT workers do but IT workers can understand what the basic run of the mill business drones do...and their work tends to be a bunch of pointless meetings. Yeah, I work at a corporate office and have made it a mission to see what kind of work they do, and majority of the time...it's pointless meetings and meetings that involve pointing to IT workers and saying "do this". I check many of their daily schedules, and see what kind of stuff they talk about in meetings...just wow. Am I an "asshole"? Sure you can call me that, but I can call them useless in turn because I wonder how many more qualified people out there who can replace these workers.
  - boondoggle16 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - di456 3y ago
      Sadly, citing off topic ChatGTP woes and reducing Americans to a broad generalization is not a sign of intelligence either.
      - Shorel 3y ago
        Statistically speaking, assuming a normal distribution of intelligence, there is a specific percent where this generalization will start to apply. Now, I don't know what is this percent, but let's give it a name: the ChatGPT percentile cut line. My intuition says this line sits to the left of the median, so in a sense you are right, meaning that fewer than 50% of people have a measurable intelligence lower than this line. However, it can also be higher than 5%, and this means many millions of people can be easily replaced by an automation tool, without any bad consequence.
kenjackson 3y ago
There’s actually a far better reason they don’t retrain. There aren’t better tools. Or the tools are basically carbon copies (Google Docs and Sheets). Show me a product that provides so much more value for my team than Excel that it would be worth a retrain.
- inetknght 3y ago
  > There aren’t better tools. Or the tools are basically carbon copies LibreOffice, free open source software. Just as good as Excel and... free.
  - leksak 3y ago
    Yeah, but for retraining to be worth it then in the future your people have to be better or more productive than they would be with Excel and it'll also impact every new hire you make that needs to do the same retraining. Just as good is not good enough. That the tool is free is rarely a strong enough reason especially if there are licenses around already.
  - teamonkey 3y ago
    LibreOffice is a perfectly functional spreadsheet for basic spreadsheet tasks. It is, however, not in the same league as Excel for more advanced spreadsheet tasks. Sometimes as a user you just want to be able to use the software that works better, you know?
    - gitaarik 3y ago
      Yeah, that is the trade-off; if you keep using the proietary software that you're familiar with, you don't have to relearn, but you'll be more dependent on 1 company. But if you spend some time up-front into learning a free software alternative, you won't be dependent on a single company. But yeah, for some things there are not yet complete free software alternatives, but the gap is really getting small these days. I think for most common use cases for most people, LibreOffice is more than enough. If you need more advanced features that are only available in the propietary variant, try to find ways to not be dependent on that feature, or find an alternative way to do it with free software. If you are creative, there are usually many ways how you can do your work using free software. But yeah it does take some dedication to this idea. But what you get back is probably, on the long run, gonna be of more benefit to you for the future than if you would invest it in learning the propietary software. Unless you really have a special love for the propietary software company, and you are sure you want to grow more and more into their ecosystem and have no need to have any personal freedom over the software you use.
Pxtl 3y ago
I'm old enough to remember when every young self-taught sysadmin was getting their MCSE or A+ certs.
PhasmaFelis 3y ago
> Your run-of-the-mill business drone will be trained on Word/Excel/Outlook and be hard to impossible to retrain on anything else (either because of actual stupidity or resistance to change). Change purely for the sake of change is bad and people are right to resist it. The vast majority of businesses have no compelling reason to switch off Microsoft Office. Would the world be a better place if there were more feasible options? Maybe. But that's not the concern of either a random business or its employees.
BizarroLand 3y ago
Home appliance repair is not a specialized job. Maybe you have some sort of memory about the Maytag repair man, but that is just branding, just like DeBeers with their diamond monopoly. Home appliance repair is knowing the general layout of each major appliance, a bit of specialized knowledge on how to dismantle them without braking them, and which modules are responsible for which function, and finally knowing how to source the replacement parts and knowing which common items are best kept on hand for convenience. Very few people are doing board level repair for appliances, especially when the replacemeent boards are typically very inexpensive for any modern machine (save for main boards and for induction plates in induction stoves, which are typically so expensive that it is smarter to replace the entire appliance rather than repair the broken module).

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Your average car repair guy will often be forced to specialize in one brand of car. Not because of skill issues, but maybe forced because they work for a dealership that sells a particular make exclusively or, less often, a specialty shop; most “car repair guys” outside of those environments have to be generalists. > Your home appliance guy will preferrably sell and repair one brand of washing machine, dryer, dishwasher. IME, the sales are done by shops that carry many brands, and delivery, installation, repair donw by firms that often have relations with the retailers and handle whatever you get from them, including multiple unita of different brands that come together with the same team. They may also have relations with the manufacturers, but those don’t seem usually to be exclusive.

ori_prior 3y ago
> Not because of skill issues, but maybe forced because they work for a dealership that sells a particular make exclusively or, less often, a specialty shop; most “car repair guys” outside of those environments have to be generalists. Yes, I'd expect any car guy to be able to change your tires. Or change your oil. But even resetting the oil-change alarm or tire-pressure sensor can be a hurdle here: Manufacturers also use skill issues to their advantage to bind tradespeople. Modern cars do need manufacturer-specific diagnostic devices that used to be unobtainable for independent shops. Since that practice has been largely forbidden by the authorities, now the software, cabling, and diagnostic output are made intentionally hard to understand without having taken the corresponding lessons that the manufacturer provides for a modest fee.
- TheCapn 3y ago
  Perhaps you're using a broad/generic example to try and make the point but I'll say this: If a seasoned mechanic is unable to figure out how to reset the Maintenance Reminder or look up how to sync Tire Pressure sensors, run away. In the same way that one can use knowledge of one programming language as a means to leapfrog into other languages, other skilled trades are similar. Perhaps there's something that could be said about an ICE mechanic trying to dabble on Electric but that's not the point you're making. So yeah. I know you're trying to make a point about lock in, but when I think of people I want to hire for tasks who might say "Oh, sorry, you have a Volkswagen and I only know how to work on GMC" I wouldn't take my GMC to them either. It shows a fundamental lack of skill in that they don't understand the broader concepts and their universal applications. If I, a programmer, can figure out my Volkswagen, my GMC, my Mazda, my Nissan, certainly a mechanic can. If my appliance repair specialist can only do Whirlpool when I ask for help on a Bosch that's red flags. One might specialize. Sure. But to refuse? Weird. But I fear I might be getting lost in the weeds here because its all about the approach. "Sorry, too busy to take on work on things that aren't my specialty": yep, understood. "Sorry, I don't know <model> I only know <other model>" bad.
  - ozim 3y ago
    Try to get a French car in Poland, most shops are used to deal with VW, Audi. It is not impossible but if you try to go to a random shop you found on Google and fix your Citroen or Renault you might be surprised.
    - wisty 3y ago
      It could just be a parts issue. A lot of mechanics will work on pretty much any car, if they have the parts, but if it's not a popular model then they don't want it sitting in their shop for a week while they order parts. I guess some mechanics will prefer to work with a smaller number of models, because they're much faster if they're familiar with the model, but new models come out every year, and they need to learn how to fix those. If a mechanic can learn to fix the newest VW, they can learn to fix the newest Renault, it just might not be worth their time if they have enough work to do.

jhartwig 3y ago

'actual stupidity'... gotta love the general disdain of the 'run of the mill business drone'... It's funny my wife is a run of the mill business drone. She thinks IT is a bunch of assholes. I would say she is probably right. Way to keep things going.

majesticglue 3y ago
and IT "assholes" think the run of the mill business drones are "assholes" as well. Their inability to be effective at their jobs tend to make IT lives worse because they can't understand what IT workers do but IT workers can understand what the basic run of the mill business drones do...and their work tends to be a bunch of pointless meetings. Yeah, I work at a corporate office and have made it a mission to see what kind of work they do, and majority of the time...it's pointless meetings and meetings that involve pointing to IT workers and saying "do this". I check many of their daily schedules, and see what kind of stuff they talk about in meetings...just wow. Am I an "asshole"? Sure you can call me that, but I can call them useless in turn because I wonder how many more qualified people out there who can replace these workers.
- boondoggle16 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - di456 3y ago
    Sadly, citing off topic ChatGTP woes and reducing Americans to a broad generalization is not a sign of intelligence either.
    - Shorel 3y ago
      Statistically speaking, assuming a normal distribution of intelligence, there is a specific percent where this generalization will start to apply. Now, I don't know what is this percent, but let's give it a name: the ChatGPT percentile cut line. My intuition says this line sits to the left of the median, so in a sense you are right, meaning that fewer than 50% of people have a measurable intelligence lower than this line. However, it can also be higher than 5%, and this means many millions of people can be easily replaced by an automation tool, without any bad consequence.

kenjackson 3y ago

There’s actually a far better reason they don’t retrain. There aren’t better tools. Or the tools are basically carbon copies (Google Docs and Sheets). Show me a product that provides so much more value for my team than Excel that it would be worth a retrain.

inetknght 3y ago
> There aren’t better tools. Or the tools are basically carbon copies LibreOffice, free open source software. Just as good as Excel and... free.
- leksak 3y ago
  Yeah, but for retraining to be worth it then in the future your people have to be better or more productive than they would be with Excel and it'll also impact every new hire you make that needs to do the same retraining. Just as good is not good enough. That the tool is free is rarely a strong enough reason especially if there are licenses around already.
- teamonkey 3y ago
  LibreOffice is a perfectly functional spreadsheet for basic spreadsheet tasks. It is, however, not in the same league as Excel for more advanced spreadsheet tasks. Sometimes as a user you just want to be able to use the software that works better, you know?
  - gitaarik 3y ago
    Yeah, that is the trade-off; if you keep using the proietary software that you're familiar with, you don't have to relearn, but you'll be more dependent on 1 company. But if you spend some time up-front into learning a free software alternative, you won't be dependent on a single company. But yeah, for some things there are not yet complete free software alternatives, but the gap is really getting small these days. I think for most common use cases for most people, LibreOffice is more than enough. If you need more advanced features that are only available in the propietary variant, try to find ways to not be dependent on that feature, or find an alternative way to do it with free software. If you are creative, there are usually many ways how you can do your work using free software. But yeah it does take some dedication to this idea. But what you get back is probably, on the long run, gonna be of more benefit to you for the future than if you would invest it in learning the propietary software. Unless you really have a special love for the propietary software company, and you are sure you want to grow more and more into their ecosystem and have no need to have any personal freedom over the software you use.

Pxtl 3y ago

I'm old enough to remember when every young self-taught sysadmin was getting their MCSE or A+ certs.

PhasmaFelis 3y ago

> Your run-of-the-mill business drone will be trained on Word/Excel/Outlook and be hard to impossible to retrain on anything else (either because of actual stupidity or resistance to change). Change purely for the sake of change is bad and people are right to resist it. The vast majority of businesses have no compelling reason to switch off Microsoft Office. Would the world be a better place if there were more feasible options? Maybe. But that's not the concern of either a random business or its employees.

BizarroLand 3y ago

Home appliance repair is not a specialized job. Maybe you have some sort of memory about the Maytag repair man, but that is just branding, just like DeBeers with their diamond monopoly. Home appliance repair is knowing the general layout of each major appliance, a bit of specialized knowledge on how to dismantle them without braking them, and which modules are responsible for which function, and finally knowing how to source the replacement parts and knowing which common items are best kept on hand for convenience. Very few people are doing board level repair for appliances, especially when the replacemeent boards are typically very inexpensive for any modern machine (save for main boards and for induction plates in induction stoves, which are typically so expensive that it is smarter to replace the entire appliance rather than repair the broken module).