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I don't think this is incorrect? The DPA is incompetent or corrupt because it allowed such a scheme to be profitable. > This was a business decision to buy as

I don't think this is incorrect? The DPA is incompetent or corrupt because it allowed such a scheme to be profitable. > This was a business decision to buy as much time as possible A competent and non-corrupt DPA would've enforced a fine greater than the potential/estimated revenue explicitly to discourage gambles like this and seize any revenue acquired unlawfully.

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Huh? Facebook made the business decision, they got sued and the court case has finally concluded that this was (as basically everone already knew) not compliant. The maximum fine is capped at 5% of global revenue, so this was always gonna end up being profitable for Facebook, unfortunately. I personally agree that the Irish DPA should be doing a lot better, but they're definitely not corrupt.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  > they're definitely not corrupt. Mate, every regulator in Ireland is corrupt. Every single one. GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all?
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    Ok so I had to get out my laptop here, as there's a bunch of details. > GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. I'm pretty sure you mean the Gardai Siochana, rather than a (relatively recent) regulator of theres. The Guards actually bugged their offices, which is both super corrupt and not talked about enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal > Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. They believed the Guards, who I definitely agree are in fact, corrupt. Fun fact, my cousin has been fighting said corruption for like twenty years, with the result that he'll almost certainly never be promoted. > Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. I 100% agree that the CB were diabolically bad during the boom, but I'm not sure that they were corrupt. They basically took the same approach as the UK, which is both sadly normal and stupid, but I don't see evidence of corruption here, can you be more specific? > The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. I have no evidence either for or against this proposition, so I will say no more. > Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. I too hate sitka spruce everywhere, but not sure how this links to corruption, can you clarify? > The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. The construction industry is indeed a mafia (I worked in it for a number of years), but I'm not sure how that relates to regulators in ireland being corrupt? > Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. 10's of millions? 1.25 million surely? Don't get me wrong, I agree it was incredibly tone deaf and stupid (seriously, if Turbridy/any of the rest of them think they can get more money elsewhere then they should do that). That one is particularly bad, given that the CFO didn't know anything about an account, but RTE are not a regulator, so it doesn't have much to do with your current point. > FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. They've been in government together or separately since the foundation of the State, at what point do the people (i.e. us) who voted for them become responsible (note to non-Irish readers: we have a PR system and lots of other parties, we just keep voting for the incompetents). The two of them have also presided over an economic miracle in that I grew up in a very poor country and we're now much, much richer. You could argue that that's not down to them, but then why are you blaming them for the bad parts? > We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. 44k actually :( https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ > So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all? Because nobody in ireland that is politically powerful profits from a weak DPC. Generally, our corruption is related to either farmers, lawyers or builders making out like bandits (and the Guards, who are just terrible and have been for far too long). Nobody in the upper echelons of Irish society gives a toss about data protection or tech in general. It's just garden variety lack of resources and incompetence, I'm afraid. The DPC has been begging for more money and resources for a long time, which does not seem like the actions of a corrupt regulator. There's essentially no revolving door (I looked to see if the DPC would hire me as an experienced data scientist with a background in policy and they just want lawyers unfortunately). > who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years Look, again I'm not saying the DPC have done an amazing job here, but fundamentally the DPC keep making judgements and FB keep challenging them in court. While I may not like the amount of time this takes, I do like living in a system where regulators don't ignore the courts and hand down unchallengable judgements (and I reckon you do too, in general if not in this specific case). Also, the EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this (though a much larger proportion of the monetisable population).
multjoy 3y ago
A DPA can only work within the legislative framework it is given.
- johannes1234321 3y ago
  Which is the framework played by the GDPR and other European regulation. The DPA are meant to be independent from government in their decision.

disgruntledphd2 3y ago

Huh? Facebook made the business decision, they got sued and the court case has finally concluded that this was (as basically everone already knew) not compliant. The maximum fine is capped at 5% of global revenue, so this was always gonna end up being profitable for Facebook, unfortunately. I personally agree that the Irish DPA should be doing a lot better, but they're definitely not corrupt.

mandmandam 3y ago
> they're definitely not corrupt. Mate, every regulator in Ireland is corrupt. Every single one. GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all?
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  Ok so I had to get out my laptop here, as there's a bunch of details. > GSOC - corrupt. Ask Maurice McCabe. I'm pretty sure you mean the Gardai Siochana, rather than a (relatively recent) regulator of theres. The Guards actually bugged their offices, which is both super corrupt and not talked about enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_whistleblower_scandal > Túsla - corrupt. Ask McCabe, again. They believed the Guards, who I definitely agree are in fact, corrupt. Fun fact, my cousin has been fighting said corruption for like twenty years, with the result that he'll almost certainly never be promoted. > Central Bank - corrupt. Ask Jonathan Sugarman. I 100% agree that the CB were diabolically bad during the boom, but I'm not sure that they were corrupt. They basically took the same approach as the UK, which is both sadly normal and stupid, but I don't see evidence of corruption here, can you be more specific? > The CRU - corrupt. Have never handed down a fine over three figures, afaict. They are literally paid by the utility companies. Ask anyone you know who has ever filed a complaint against them. My lawyer wouldn't go near them when his leccy company screwed him over - no point, he said. I have no evidence either for or against this proposition, so I will say no more. > Coillte - corrupt. Look at all the sitka spruce drenched in Round-Up that they plant. I too hate sitka spruce everywhere, but not sure how this links to corruption, can you clarify? > The construction industry is a mafia; look into CRH sometime. The construction industry is indeed a mafia (I worked in it for a number of years), but I'm not sure how that relates to regulators in ireland being corrupt? > Look at what's happening to RTE now that they were caught giving tens of millions away under the table - one or two people will be scapegoated, lose their job, and escape jailtime. 10's of millions? 1.25 million surely? Don't get me wrong, I agree it was incredibly tone deaf and stupid (seriously, if Turbridy/any of the rest of them think they can get more money elsewhere then they should do that). That one is particularly bad, given that the CFO didn't know anything about an account, but RTE are not a regulator, so it doesn't have much to do with your current point. > FF and FG have their fingers in every pie. They have the country rotted out from the core. They've been in government together or separately since the foundation of the State, at what point do the people (i.e. us) who voted for them become responsible (note to non-Irish readers: we have a PR system and lots of other parties, we just keep voting for the incompetents). The two of them have also presided over an economic miracle in that I grew up in a very poor country and we're now much, much richer. You could argue that that's not down to them, but then why are you blaming them for the bad parts? > We're in debt over 40,000 euro per person. 44k actually :( https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-03-07/75/ > So why on Earth would you assume the DPC, who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years, are any better at all? Because nobody in ireland that is politically powerful profits from a weak DPC. Generally, our corruption is related to either farmers, lawyers or builders making out like bandits (and the Guards, who are just terrible and have been for far too long). Nobody in the upper echelons of Irish society gives a toss about data protection or tech in general. It's just garden variety lack of resources and incompetence, I'm afraid. The DPC has been begging for more money and resources for a long time, which does not seem like the actions of a corrupt regulator. There's essentially no revolving door (I looked to see if the DPC would hire me as an experienced data scientist with a background in policy and they just want lawyers unfortunately). > who has been letting FB run roughshod over half the planet's data for years Look, again I'm not saying the DPC have done an amazing job here, but fundamentally the DPC keep making judgements and FB keep challenging them in court. While I may not like the amount of time this takes, I do like living in a system where regulators don't ignore the courts and hand down unchallengable judgements (and I reckon you do too, in general if not in this specific case). Also, the EU has about 450mn people, so it's approximately 12% of the planet at most that's been affected by this (though a much larger proportion of the monetisable population).

multjoy 3y ago

A DPA can only work within the legislative framework it is given.

johannes1234321 3y ago
Which is the framework played by the GDPR and other European regulation. The DPA are meant to be independent from government in their decision.