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GPT-4 is great at infuriating telemarketing scammers
- mellosouls 3y agoDiscussed the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36549299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36549299
- nubinetwork 3y agoAlso https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36551320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36551320 And a couple days before that... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36523774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36523774
- EGreg 3y agoAnyone remember Lenny? The state of the art 10 years ago is hilarious: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&q=lenny+videos+scammers&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiupuHG8PT_AhX1kWoFHeBwBVYQ7xYoAHoECAYQAQ&biw=375&bih=629&dpr=3 https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&q=lenny...
- zapdrive 3y agoLenny was highly successful in both wasting the time and annoying the scammers. But the latest AI bots are a totally different ballgame. Lenny just randomly repeated pre recorded snippets. AI bots can engage the scammer much better.
- 0cVlTeIATBs 3y agoIIRC "random" isn't quite right, there was logic to find the moment the telemarketer stopped speaking for the next response to play.
- flohofwoe 3y agoThe logical conclusion is AI bots exclusively talking to AI bots to complete the circle. It would be funny if it wasn't for all the wasted computing cycles that could be burned for something actually useful instead.
- chaxor 3y agoIf they move it to optical compute then we won't have to keep talking so much about the CO2 and compute cycles. I imagine they're having conversations to do just that pretty often now, and hopefully with some action towards getting it done.
- pjc50 3y ago? Optical computing still consumes energy, you can't beat thermodynamics like that. (there is some theoretical research into "reversible computing", but it's not really practical. A side effect is that destroying information is not reversible: so instead of having a two-input one output gate, you have to have 2 inputs 2 outputs and keep the "spare" around to make it reversible.)
- wruza 3y agoThat’s how the whole “life” thing works. I don’t think there’s a viable escape route from that, until we invent at-scale negotiation protocols better than arms and market.
- EGreg 3y agoIs there something like this but for email scammers / nigerian ones? I remember Captain Picard etc. but I want to do it at scale
- dismalpedigree 3y agoI was thinking about this the other day. Make an app which coordinates so the sender mailbox gets flooded, or links clicked in a safe container, etc Could essentially DDoS the scammers by sending realistic seeming replies from all their spam email.
- gattilorenz 3y agoThere used to be something like this, I think I saw it on HN a few years back: https://www.ddb.co.nz/work/rescam/# https://www.ddb.co.nz/work/rescam/#
- thedougd 3y agoBrought back a memory of the Jolly Roger’s cookbook, a phone freaking guide published on BBSes.
- mcv 3y agoI think we've found our killer app for AI. I've got to say the call in the video is not very convincing, but the idea is pretty cool. Let's have AI and scammers talk to each other and waste each other's time while we do more interesting stuff.
- avidphantasm 3y agoGrowing up, a fried’s dad used to tell telemarketers the following: “could you call back another time, I’m about to fornicate with my wife…”
- boopmaster 3y agoas a telemarketer some 25 years ago, perchance I talked to your friend's dad. Although, he had said that he had just downed a handful of viagra and I was running the clock out on that so he really, really had to get off... the phone. Telemarketing was one of my first jobs between high school and college. I hated the job and I was fired because I couldn't sell anything to anyone. Area jobs were very slim and I didn't have much experience, and it paid considerably better than mcdonalds - I apologize to World+Dog for being that obnoxious nuisance. I landed a job in IT shortly therafter and never looked back.
- aidenn0 3y agoIf I were a telemarketer, I'd object to the improper use of "fornicate" which implies the sex is extra-marital.
- JohnFen 3y agoIt does? That implication never occurred to me at all. I think it implies nothing about the nature of the relationship at all. It's just a way to avoid saying "fuck".
- aidenn0 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornication Though I should point out that some dictionaries will list the "just another word for sex" definition either as a colloquialism or a secondary definition. Note that e.g. M-W does not list this secondary definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fornication https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fornication
- jens-c 3y agoHow long until these telemarketers start using the same technology? Then we'll have all these AIs talking to each other, a huge waste of resources...
- oneTbrain23 3y agoBasically bitcoin trajectory burning fuel to do useless hard math just so that you can't compete. I see same thing happening with AI chat which will pitch AI against AI until one party can't keep up all while burning fuel doing useless math.
- Quarrelsome 3y agoI think in the short term its cheaper for these scam call centres to use "local" English speakers (in practice many of the employees are fresh-faced out-of-towners looking for their first job) than it is to dev and maintain an entire GPT pipeline. It will require a level of completely different organisation and sophistication than what is currently in place. Right now outside of running the dialler and internal off-the-shelf packages to manage their workforce these orgs are not particularly tech literate as evidenced by the YouTube channels that expose them.
- unsignedint 3y agoFor "legitimate" (the kind that's not a scam, just annoying) they are regulated that it wouldn't be legal in many jurisdictions. (at least in B2C context -- maybe it a bit lax in B2B, considering Google's already using some form of bot to confirm business hours for Google Maps listing.) Scammers in other hand already employ illegal robocalling tactic, and I can see some may opt to use systems like that if the price is right.
- DeathArrow 3y agoWhat happens when telemarketers start using GPT to power their own calls?
- dspillett 3y agoCan't be far away. I'm sure some of the junk e-mail that has got through my filters recently is AI generated.
- Tade0 3y agoI set up a demo Wordpress site with a weak password and eventually found some new entries - most of which stylistically match AI generated content. In the old days I would just get some garbage with max one sentence decorated with multiple exclamation marks. Here I got 500-word essays.
- Tepix 3y agoThe bot is a bit disappointing, it doesn't really interact with the caller.
- Quarrelsome 3y agothere's a bit where it says: "I just won a talent contest, do you think your insurance product would help cover a party that I'd like to throw for me" which is pretty decent.
- psychlops 3y agoIt's also repetitive.
- im3w1l 3y agoI get it, you want to fuck with telemarketers. But "Heaven Banning" [0] is a terrible terrible thing, and I don't like where this is going. [0] https://archive.is/hPoAo https://archive.is/hPoAo
- luma 3y agoAre you really advocating for the plight of these poor scammers?
- im3w1l 3y agoI think it's worth taking a stand early on, before the tactic is inevitably expanded to include more groups of people.
- Verdex 3y agoPersonally, I take bigger issue with the people who hire the telemarketer. While I can imagine a person revelling in their telemarketing position, somehow I suspect most people working are just trying to get enough money to not starve before next months paycheck. Regardless of the reality, I get the sentiment. Hey we built this system that can trap humans in an infinite social loop requiring either superhuman willpower or outright sociopathy to escape. But don't worry, we only use it on the bad people.
- Riverheart 3y agoPart of the justification I’ve heard for wasting the scammers time is to limit the number of people they can interact with in a day. If wasting a scammer’s time prevents another innocent person from scammed then there’s a net benefit. It’s unfortunate that some people need to do bad things to make a living but it’s an explanation of bad behavior, not a justification for it. Mind you, I’m also sympathetic to the ways in which this practice could be abused.
- npteljes 3y ago>infinite social loop requiring either superhuman willpower or outright sociopathy to escape Or, you can just hang up if you have your suspicions. I don't see this kind of banning particularly useful. If it gets sufficiently popular, telemarketers will just work around it in their scripts.
- sylware 3y agoI wonder when "AI" will be able to "see" a web page and interacte with it, only using the "mouse" and "keyboard". Then, click farms may disappear.
- windexh8er 3y agoAll subscriptions are billed on an annual basis, but you may cancel a subscription at any time. If you cancel within the first 30 days of signup, you will not yet have been charged, and the pending charge to occur at the end of the trial will be cancelled. In other words, the first 30 days after signup are considered a free trial period and there is no charge for the free trial period. Once your paid subscription period begins, if you cancel within the first 14 days of this period, you will receive a full refund. Neither full or partial refunds will be provided after 14 days from the date of payment. To cancel your subscription, click on the “Cancel Subscription” link on the “My Numbers” page of the Pirate Porthole. Please allow 30 days for your refund to be processed. Pretty sure the CFPB says this is not an OK practice. Maybe it's a scam in itself? Stir up hype, acquire your 80% of subs in the first 45 days. Pull the plug. No refund.
- skue 3y agoDefinitely not a fly-by-night scam. It’s been around for almost a decade: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/fashion/a-robot-that-has-fun-at-telemarketers-expense.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/fashion/a-robot-that-has-...
- sidcool 3y agoAny idea how the software works technically?
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- xnx 3y agoI love it. We need more scammer/marketer/salesperson LLM tarpits.
- Zach_the_Lizard 3y agoI think as this technology gets cheaper and better, another, more insidious application is using it to overwhelm support channels. Fake or false alarm 911 calls are a problem today. Imagine someone "attacking" the 911 system by spamming it with fake calls. Or calling up / spamming/ etc. help lines for e.g. returning defective merchandise, clogging up support agents and costing money. Spamming your local coffee shop because one morning you felt they were rude. Leaving 1 star reviews everywhere, but over time, so it's harder to detect. Placing tons of orders and cancelling them before being charged, hopefully leading to wasted effort. We may need a CloudFlare for everything, also powered by the same technology
- Self-Perfection 3y agoEvery interaction that may be abused and spammed should either require payment or require strict identification of a user that it is this particular human being with permission to perform this action. In this case any spam attack can be countervailed either by rising a price for interaction or by withdrawing permissions.
- Zach_the_Lizard 3y agoSometimes that's not possible or leads to less ideal tradeoffs (at least in the short run) For example, I made a doctor's appointment recently. To do so, I called, told them my name, and a few other details that are mostly in the realm of public information. No one in the office had met me. They had no ID. That would come later in some other forms to be filled out before the visit. If they require ID upfront, that friction will cause some appointments to not be made. You can't find your ID while on the phone. Grandma has an expired driver's license. On the other hand, requiring it upfront reduces fraud. Eventually we will probably have AI powered agents that perform these tasks for us, have the relevant documents handy in memory, and ultimately reduce fraud when scheduling an appointment. But then we need defense against fake appointments being a way to commit identify fraud. Before such agents are widely available, there will be growing pains
- Self-Perfection 3y ago
- kazinator 3y agoIt is not GPT-anything. The Register has been laughably duped here, just like the telemarketers. The "robots" do not listen to the scammer at all. Basically the algorithm just waits for pauses from the other side and plays random audio. Often just "uh huh", and "keep talking", and "can you repeat that, I wasn't paying attention" and things like that, plus random chatter. The core of it is probably some 50 line script. The responses don't use anything from the telemarketer's utterances; it's dumber than Eliza. Yet it captivates them, keeping them talking!