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Vietnam bans 'Barbie' movie over South China Sea map
- moose_man 3y ago[flagged]
- causi 3y agoThey push whatever narrative makes them the most money. At least when someone has a bad set of principals they have principals. Hollywood would simultaneously release an Anne Frank drama in one country and a holocaust denial "documentary" in another if it was profitable.
- moose_man 3y agoThe old Lenin line, capitalists will sell you the rope to hang them with. I would argue that this mainly applies to Western capitalism.
- vxNsr 3y agoCommunism will force you to take the rope to hang yourself with, and also force you to say you’re not hanging your self while you’re tying the noose around your neck.
- rcarr 3y agoI don’t see why, if they’re so desperate for Chinese money, the studio couldn’t just make two cuts of the movie with different maps, one for China and one for the rest of the world. Are China really going to ban the Chinese version just because the other one exists? And vice versa with Vietnam? Being that scared/desperate to not upset China is super weak.
- ceejayoz 3y ago> Are China really going to ban the Chinese version just because the other one exists? They sometimes edit themselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_censorship_in_China#List_of_edited_films https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_censorship_in_China#List_... My favorite are the ones where they make sure there's a "happy ending" where the authorities win, often with a title card like the Simpsons's "Note: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet" joke. > In 2022, Fight Club was released in China with an altered ending: a text screen explaining that the authorities triumphed after figuring out Project Mayhem's plan, and that Tyler Durden was committed to a psychiactric institution. This prompted backlash and the film's original ending was subsequently restored. > The Chinese release of Lord of War cuts the final 30 minutes from the film and replaces it with a text screen summary stating that Yuri Orlov confessed to all crimes and was sentenced to life in prison. Why permit two versions when you can flex your muscles and force everyone to see the version you want, though?
- Karellen 3y agoBut also, interestingly: > The Narrator finds redemption at the end of the film by rejecting Tyler Durden's dialectic, a path that diverged from the novel's ending in which the Narrator is placed in a mental institution. > An online release in China from Tencent censored the bomb blasts at the end and replaced the ending with a message that Project Mayhem was thwarted, with Tyler Durden being arrested by law enforcement and placed in an insane asylum until 2012, adapting the ending of the original Fight Club novel. [...] The novel's author Chuck Palahniuk believed the censored version partially restored the books ending. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Club
- Eric_WVGG 3y ago… or, leave the map out of the movie… if the barbie movie turns out to pivot on geopolitics I'll eat a one inch hot pink pair of pumps…
- justrealist 3y ago> Are China really going to ban the Chinese version just because the other one exists Yes, without a second thought. China isn't trying to convince people inside China that the South China Sea is their sovereign territory. They're trying to push the belief on the rest of the world.
- atlasunshrugged 3y agoYes, China will absolutely ban them because the other version exists. The point for China isn't just to manipulate their citizens, but control what the world sees as well... they have a billion+ person market and they know how to wield it to get what they want from corporations desperate to show good quarterly profits.
- throwaway47393 3y ago[flagged]
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago[flagged]
- spamizbad 3y agoWhy? Hollywood has been making tons of cultural concessions to placate the American market.
- ctvo 3y agoOf course there are films that celebrate a made up, white washed version of America's history, like say, Mel Gibson's The Patriot, but America was never censored and not released movies critical of its own history. It's not about placating the American market for financial success, it's that the government won't allow the movie to be released unless they add these elements in it, and Hollywood bows to this. For your what-aboutism to work, you're going to need to find a movie that the US government interfered with, to fit its agenda, otherwise it would prevent the release of, and Hollywood going along with it.
- spamizbad 3y ago>. Of course there are films that celebrate a made up, white washed version of America's history, like say, Mel Gibson's The Patriot, but America was never censored and not released movies critical of its own history Not quite: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hire-why-hollywood-is-the-us-militarys-best-wingman https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/may/26/top-gun-for-hir... The US military had them delete the US bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki from the 2014 release of Godzilla - something pretty essential to the "lore".
- moose_man 3y agoThat's because they asked for jet fighters and US military hardware to be in their movie. They were asking the government to participate significantly in the production.
- ctvo 3y agoI'm missing the not quite part here? The studios wanted to utilize fighter jets and other military grade hardware for their movie, I assume to make it more realistic, and in return they help market the US military as more kind, professional, whatever organization. There's nothing stopping the filmmaker from creating those items as props, using CGI, ... and releasing their movie, completely ignoring the demands of the Defense Department. China, unlike the US, has a quota on the number of foreign films it allows to be imported into the country, and to be selected for one of these coveted spots, Hollywood and film makers change the content of the their movies to fit the narrative of the Chinese government. Try marking Taiwan as an independent country and see where that gets you, for example. Alternatively, try releasing a movie sympathetic to the Taliban, or being critical of America in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. No one will stop you. The two countries are not equally problematic here.
- sethammons 3y agoWhat does that have to do with the article?
- stronglikedan 3y agoLiterally everything. I'll save the explainer, since there's plenty of comments already doing that here.
- namu-313 3y agoWhy is it even necessary to show a political map in this movie? I haven't seen it, but I doubt that territorial claims by China are part of the story...
- justrealist 3y agoBecause China demands gestures like this to give films access to the Chinese market, and Hollywood in turn grovels.
- Angostura 3y agoI can think of quite a few popular films, distributed in China which don't feature any maps.
- ninjin 3y agoI think self-censorship is fairly well documented when it comes to Hollywood and the PRC at this point, but do you have something to back up that demanding “gestures” such as this are commonplace? If so, it is news to me at least and I would like to read more about it.
- atlasunshrugged 3y agoThere was a great book, Red Carpet: Hollywood, China, and the Global Battle for Cultural Supremacy, that had both examples and which talked about how the idea that Hollywood is kowtowing to Beijing is coming to an end... not so much because of Hollywood, but because China has been working hard to build up their film industry to a point that they have regular domestic features and don't have to depend on foreign films. So while some studios still likely self-censor in an effort to get China distribution, as that avenue is increasingly closed off regardless of the film content, that self-censorship may go away.
- dirtyid 3y agoThere isn't, especially not for something that stirs up regional drama like SCS maps. PRC censors rather there be no politics at all.
- hrkfmud50k 3y agowhy is this detail even in the movie? seems like an easy conflict to avoid by omission
- thebigjewbowski 3y agoI just logged in to post the same thing — seems odd.
- wahnfrieden 3y agoit's paid propaganda (paid meaning tax credits and gatekept access to financing, distribution). hollywood movies exist for shareholder profit, making money for changes like this easily accepted and even incentivized. see also the changes they routinely make to meet complex rules around including enough british actors for lucrative british tax credits, and extrapolate more globally. the defense against this in this thread can be summarized as "it doesn't matter" or "it's not that much" while it is what's happening
- crooked-v 3y agoI can think of far fewer films that include detailed political world maps than exclude them, though.
- tomjakubowski 3y agoI don't mean to contradict you, your comment just made a good opening to post the world map from the movie. The map is really (really…) not detailed, and honestly I find it hard to identify the problem border in it off the coast of "Asia". Somebody on Twitter pointed out the sea border around Greenland is controversial as well, something about fishing rights. https://images2.imgbox.com/81/a9/mSlNXz7I_o.jpeg https://images2.imgbox.com/81/a9/mSlNXz7I_o.jpeg
- rambojohnson 3y agosure, but that's just one example...
- jmclnx 3y ago>shows China's unilaterally claimed territory in the South China Sea I do not blame them, and I hope more countries in that region follows through. China has no claim beyond what is said in international treaties. But as we all know, US will do anything for the Chinese Market and short term profits, even allow a kind of "corporate espionage" for plants the have inside China.
- colechristensen 3y agoThe word is now "appeasement".
- jxramos 3y agoWhen is India going to get into the name claim game and claim the entirety of the Indian Ocean to itself and collect tolls on all seafarers in its territory. That’ll one up from a mere sea.
- Fricken 3y agoHere's the map we're talking about: https://imgur.com/V8YTjzJ https://imgur.com/V8YTjzJ
- swid 3y agoIt makes this story even more interesting to me that the line would even appear on a map that is drawn like that - it looks like a toddler drew it. Crazy.
- 4ggr0 3y agoI can barely even recognize where Europe is supposed to be. I get why Vietnam is mad but it's kinda funny to see that the map in question is extremely abstract. The whole world should ban this movie because it seems like no territory on it is correct. You really have to know that it's about the small dotted line next to China. So I do get it, it can be seen as very sneaky propaganda.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ginko 3y agoThat's only eight dashes, though.
- dirtyid 3y agoOnly 8 dashes, I wonder if ASEAN will ban the movie for not existing.
- Rels 3y agoThanks. I don't understand why it wasn't in the article in the first place. Crazy that they added such a specific detail to a map that looks like ... that. I agree with Vietnam that it has to be a deliberate move towards being nice to China.
- josephcsible 3y agoFor them to add that line to a map with an otherwise extremely low level of detail and realism seems like it must have been intentional. I have just as little sympathy for the studio as I would if they had snuck in a swastika.
- partiallypro 3y agoThere's no way the map was placed by accident, some studio exec had to have specifically requested it. There's no way it has anything to do with the story.
- ceejayoz 3y agoA globe on a desk behind one of the characters? One of those fun animated maps showing a plane flying to indicate a venue change? https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/36850/showing-journey-on-the-map https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/36850/showing-jou... It doesn't have to be a key plot point for them to make a fuss of it.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoThis is a chalk drawing prop made specifically for the movie.
- ceejayoz 3y agoI see someone else in the thread posted an image. It's abstract and doesn't even have the nine lines. https://imgur.com/V8YTjzJ https://imgur.com/V8YTjzJ
- rambojohnson 3y agodid you bother checking what it was before coming up with two examples? it's quite blatantly placed...
- ceejayoz 3y agoI went looking, without luck; not all that surprising given it's not released yet. Someone has since provided a photo. Now that I've seen it, I'm not sure what the fuss is all about (on either side of the issue).
- mensetmanusman 3y agoBarbie as the latest pawn in a geopolitical standoff resulting in nuclear war and the end of humanity is actually quite funny.
- x3874 3y ago[dead]
- beeforpork 3y agoHow is the border shown in the movie? Is a screenshot available? How is the map embedded into the 'story'?
- hackeraccount 3y agoI'm trying to figure out who's crazier here. China, Vietnam or Hollywood/producers of this movie. I go back and forth in my head. I guess if you put a gun to my head I'd say I have the most sympathy for Vietnam but it's a really marginal thing.
- impissedoff1 3y agoThe real reason is the government doesn't want western garbage movies influencing it's citizens. They censor a lot of the internet and block all tabloid news sites as well as a lot of..let's say polarized news sites. Also everyone in Vietnam hates the Chinese as the Viet govt keeps giving them special administrative regions for business
- joker_minmax 3y agoOppenheimer will win the opening weekend war in Vietnam at least.