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My wife's floristry business has been blocked from being able to access facebook advertising and permanently restricted in how she is able to interact with her

My wife's floristry business has been blocked from being able to access facebook advertising and permanently restricted in how she is able to interact with her customers in part because a bot flagged and suspended her for trading in trading exotic animals. The exotic animal she was accused of trading? Aphelandra Squarrosa - The zebra leaf plant. There's no way of getting this ban reversed, there's no way of invoking any human to perform a manual review on the ban. It is a permanent restriction that impacts her ability to communicate with her customer base.

rwmj 3y ago
Getting lawyers involved is one guaranteed way to talk to a human at Facebook. It won't be easy or cheap though, so I can understand why a business like a flower shop wouldn't want to do that.
- moneywoes 3y ago
  Is there a specific type of attorney?
  - rwmj 3y ago
    Depends on the country. In the UK I'd probably go to the Law Society website and search for a B2B lawyer under "Business -> Dispute Resolution" or "Media IT and intellectual property" (https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/ https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/). Having used lawyers like this at start up companies in the past they are not cheap. However in the first instance you'd probably just want them to send a letter on headed notepaper, which might be enough to get someone's attention at Facebook and get the matter resolved.
- Tempest1981 3y ago
  Is it possible to leverage another case filing, to reduce lawyer fees? Or some sort of Nola Press DIY process? Since it seems so common.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    Odds are you won't need to involve any judiciary institution, just lawyers. On that case, there's no case and no filling required. If your country has a working small-cases court system, there are good odds you can achieve the same result without any lawyer involvement at all. But if you are discovering this from a random internet comment, you are almost certainly better talking with a lawyer about it anyway.
- giardini 3y ago
  Take Facebook to small claims court. They can't bring a lawyer, it will cost them a small fortune and they'll lose.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  What exactly is the claim you would sue for?
  - rwmj 3y ago
    Finding that out is why I'd consult a lawyer.
ArnoVW 3y ago
if you're based in Europe, try framing it as a GDPR issue. Article 16 says that data processors have to rectify data that is inaccurate or incomplete within 1 month. If they don't do that, you can raise it to your national privacy ombudsman as an incident. This being Facebook, there is a chance that they'll act on it. Be sure to CC privacy@facebook.com and legal@facebook.com Only issue: not sure that the GDPR applies to companies. And it's a 'pro' account I guess?
- cccbbbaaa 3y ago
  Maybe article 22 (“automated individual decision-making, including profiling”) can be useful here, too. This will not work if the account is not nominative though.
- tooba 3y ago
  GDPR protects individuals 'natural persons' and not businesses 'legal persons' Recital 14 - The protection afforded by this Regulation should apply to natural persons, whatever their nationality or place of residence, in relation to the processing of their personal data. This Regulation does not cover the processing of personal data which concerns legal persons and in particular undertakings established as legal persons, including the name and the form of the legal person and the contact details of the legal person.
  - Archelaos 3y ago
    At least in German juristiction there is the viewpoint that a law should also be applicable to a legal person if it indirectly affects a natural person behind it (so-called "Durchgriffstheorie"). In other words, the GDPR applies when it comes to protecting the natural persons behind the legal person, including their economic existence.
tivert 3y ago
> There's no way of getting this ban reversed, there's no way of invoking any human to perform a manual review on the ban. It is a permanent restriction that impacts her ability to communicate with her customer base. You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil has better customer service than you do. Edit: add "the movie" to remove ambiguity.
- chinathrow 3y ago
  > You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in Brazil has better customer service than you do. Care to explain?
  - mattclarkdotnet 3y ago
    They mean the film “Brazil”
  - _spduchamp 3y ago
    It is a reference to the Terry Gilliam movie Brazil.
  - giardini 3y ago
    chinathrow said that tivert said "> You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in Brazil has better customer service than you do." But tivert didn't say that! tivert instead said "...the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil ..." chinathrow should read more carefully.
    - tivert 3y ago
      giardini said "But tivert didn't say that! tivert instead said '...the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil ...'" giardini said "> chinathrow should read more carefully." tivert said "I will direct you to other thing I added when I edited what I said: tivert said 'Edit: add "the movie" to remove ambiguity.'"
- ducharmdev 3y ago
tomohawk 3y ago
This is a political problem manifesting as a legal one. Call your US Senators and Representative. Explain the problem. Call your State Senators and Representative. Explain the problem. Contact the FTC and file a complaint.
anotheruser13 3y ago
Sorry to hear this. Floristry is pretty cut throat with all the shipped direct sites that undercut prices. (Used to work at FTD.com, which bought ProFlowers, a very large flowers-in-a box operation.}

rwmj 3y ago

Getting lawyers involved is one guaranteed way to talk to a human at Facebook. It won't be easy or cheap though, so I can understand why a business like a flower shop wouldn't want to do that.

moneywoes 3y ago
Is there a specific type of attorney?
- rwmj 3y ago
  Depends on the country. In the UK I'd probably go to the Law Society website and search for a B2B lawyer under "Business -> Dispute Resolution" or "Media IT and intellectual property" (https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/ https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/). Having used lawyers like this at start up companies in the past they are not cheap. However in the first instance you'd probably just want them to send a letter on headed notepaper, which might be enough to get someone's attention at Facebook and get the matter resolved.
Tempest1981 3y ago
Is it possible to leverage another case filing, to reduce lawyer fees? Or some sort of Nola Press DIY process? Since it seems so common.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Odds are you won't need to involve any judiciary institution, just lawyers. On that case, there's no case and no filling required. If your country has a working small-cases court system, there are good odds you can achieve the same result without any lawyer involvement at all. But if you are discovering this from a random internet comment, you are almost certainly better talking with a lawyer about it anyway.
giardini 3y ago
Take Facebook to small claims court. They can't bring a lawyer, it will cost them a small fortune and they'll lose.
paulddraper 3y ago
What exactly is the claim you would sue for?
- rwmj 3y ago
  Finding that out is why I'd consult a lawyer.

ArnoVW 3y ago

if you're based in Europe, try framing it as a GDPR issue. Article 16 says that data processors have to rectify data that is inaccurate or incomplete within 1 month. If they don't do that, you can raise it to your national privacy ombudsman as an incident. This being Facebook, there is a chance that they'll act on it. Be sure to CC privacy@facebook.com and legal@facebook.com Only issue: not sure that the GDPR applies to companies. And it's a 'pro' account I guess?

cccbbbaaa 3y ago
Maybe article 22 (“automated individual decision-making, including profiling”) can be useful here, too. This will not work if the account is not nominative though.
tooba 3y ago
GDPR protects individuals 'natural persons' and not businesses 'legal persons' Recital 14 - The protection afforded by this Regulation should apply to natural persons, whatever their nationality or place of residence, in relation to the processing of their personal data. This Regulation does not cover the processing of personal data which concerns legal persons and in particular undertakings established as legal persons, including the name and the form of the legal person and the contact details of the legal person.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  At least in German juristiction there is the viewpoint that a law should also be applicable to a legal person if it indirectly affects a natural person behind it (so-called "Durchgriffstheorie"). In other words, the GDPR applies when it comes to protecting the natural persons behind the legal person, including their economic existence.

tivert 3y ago

> There's no way of getting this ban reversed, there's no way of invoking any human to perform a manual review on the ban. It is a permanent restriction that impacts her ability to communicate with her customer base. You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil has better customer service than you do. Edit: add "the movie" to remove ambiguity.

chinathrow 3y ago
> You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in Brazil has better customer service than you do. Care to explain?
- mattclarkdotnet 3y ago
  They mean the film “Brazil”
- _spduchamp 3y ago
  It is a reference to the Terry Gilliam movie Brazil.
- giardini 3y ago
  chinathrow said that tivert said "> You know you're doing it wrong when the the Ministry of Information in Brazil has better customer service than you do." But tivert didn't say that! tivert instead said "...the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil ..." chinathrow should read more carefully.
  - tivert 3y ago
    giardini said "But tivert didn't say that! tivert instead said '...the Ministry of Information in the movie Brazil ...'" giardini said "> chinathrow should read more carefully." tivert said "I will direct you to other thing I added when I edited what I said: tivert said 'Edit: add "the movie" to remove ambiguity.'"
ducharmdev 3y ago

tomohawk 3y ago

This is a political problem manifesting as a legal one. Call your US Senators and Representative. Explain the problem. Call your State Senators and Representative. Explain the problem. Contact the FTC and file a complaint.

anotheruser13 3y ago

Sorry to hear this. Floristry is pretty cut throat with all the shipped direct sites that undercut prices. (Used to work at FTD.com, which bought ProFlowers, a very large flowers-in-a box operation.}