3 ms·

Even if everything was just written in java we’d be better off than the current system of embedding chrome into a python instance and then running a webserver i

Even if everything was just written in java we’d be better off than the current system of embedding chrome into a python instance and then running a webserver in javascript to render a document.

pkolaczk 3y ago
I don't think replacing one bad idea with another bad idea is a good idea ;) I'm also not sure if Java would be less bad in that case. At least JS has years of research that went into making it start fast, not only run fast after warmup.
- selimco 3y ago
  Modern Java has Coordinated Restore at Checkpoint (CRaC) as well as ways to compile it to native binaries that can start very fast (GraalVM & Substrate VM). The former has the benefit of a JIT as well!
  - therealdrag0 3y ago
    Have you used any of these? I’m looking for ways to speed up start time of JVM, but almost options I’ve seen so far are “experimental” and not sure best route to take. For example was sad to see ahead of time compile being removed from JDK.
- pulse7 3y ago
  Is this "years of research" the reason why most Electron apps still start slower than - for example - IntelliJ IDEA, which is written in Java and Swing?
- dahfizz 3y ago
  Just imagine if those years of research went into a good language instead. Instead of expending a huge amount of effort making an inherently slow language perform reasonably, we could have taken a reasonable language like Rust and made it so good it would legitimately push computing forward. And then all you web devs could still compile rust to wasm. wasm is already faster than JS anyway. JS was a mistake.
adamrezich 3y ago
at $DAYJOB we're in the (slow) process of replacing a tool written in Java with its successor tool, which is a web app. the Java tool works great and has reasonably snappy performance. the web app is terribly slow (at least 0.75 jiras), frequently hangs, and is often unusable for simple tasks. it's been miserable enough to make me miss the Java Era.
- winrid 3y ago
  I will start measuring things in jiras, thanks :) Also I bet the reason is more of architecture in your web app. It's harder to make it as fast, for sure, but it shouldn't hang or be unusable.
  - adamrezich 3y ago
    I wish we could do anything about it, but it's a third-party SaaS (like everything else these days...)
hedora 3y ago
If that were true, then eclipse would be faster than VS Code, right?

Even if everything was just written in java we’d be better off than the current system of embedding chrome into a python instance and then running a webserver in javascript to render a document.

pkolaczk 3y ago

I don't think replacing one bad idea with another bad idea is a good idea ;) I'm also not sure if Java would be less bad in that case. At least JS has years of research that went into making it start fast, not only run fast after warmup.

selimco 3y ago
Modern Java has Coordinated Restore at Checkpoint (CRaC) as well as ways to compile it to native binaries that can start very fast (GraalVM & Substrate VM). The former has the benefit of a JIT as well!
- therealdrag0 3y ago
  Have you used any of these? I’m looking for ways to speed up start time of JVM, but almost options I’ve seen so far are “experimental” and not sure best route to take. For example was sad to see ahead of time compile being removed from JDK.
pulse7 3y ago
Is this "years of research" the reason why most Electron apps still start slower than - for example - IntelliJ IDEA, which is written in Java and Swing?
dahfizz 3y ago
Just imagine if those years of research went into a good language instead. Instead of expending a huge amount of effort making an inherently slow language perform reasonably, we could have taken a reasonable language like Rust and made it so good it would legitimately push computing forward. And then all you web devs could still compile rust to wasm. wasm is already faster than JS anyway. JS was a mistake.

adamrezich 3y ago

at $DAYJOB we're in the (slow) process of replacing a tool written in Java with its successor tool, which is a web app. the Java tool works great and has reasonably snappy performance. the web app is terribly slow (at least 0.75 jiras), frequently hangs, and is often unusable for simple tasks. it's been miserable enough to make me miss the Java Era.

winrid 3y ago
I will start measuring things in jiras, thanks :) Also I bet the reason is more of architecture in your web app. It's harder to make it as fast, for sure, but it shouldn't hang or be unusable.
- adamrezich 3y ago
  I wish we could do anything about it, but it's a third-party SaaS (like everything else these days...)

hedora 3y ago

If that were true, then eclipse would be faster than VS Code, right?