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Don't confuse production numbers with sales. China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, EVs in particular. That's why they have fields of rotting E

Don't confuse production numbers with sales. China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, EVs in particular. That's why they have fields of rotting EVs that they can't sell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8 Notice how that Forbes article confuses sales with shipments. They aren't the same thing.

resolutebat 3y ago
China has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Genuinely surprised they haven’t shipped them for sale to Africa. It’s where a lot of old combustion vehicles from Europe end up. Maybe not worth the effort?
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    23 million cars were sold in China last year, and that figure was lower than usual because of COVID. https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.htm... Meanwhile, the number in all of Africa combined was 790,100. https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sales-in-africa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sal... I'm sure they'll ship some off to Africa if they can't find any other options, but as you say they're competing against used clunkers from Europe, so the margins will be terrible.
    - pjc50 3y ago
      Yeah, Africa has two problems: lack of money, and high import tariffs (usually in response to the lack of foreign currency).
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        and logistics -- outside of big coastal cities its a lot harder to move them inland in bulk.
  - jbarham 3y ago
    Africa doesn't have the grid capacity to support a shift to electric vehicles. Right now South Africa (i.e., the richest country in Africa) has daily rolling power cuts (aka "load shedding") because they don't generate enough electricity for current demand, let alone for widespread EVs. The major advantage of liquid fuel compared to electricity is that it's easier to transport and store, and harder to steal, which is why I don't think EVs will see significant take up in the third world.
    - shlant 3y ago
      I think you may be confused about what you're responding to. As far as I understand, they are talking about ICE vehicles, not EVs: "China has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce."
      - jbarham 3y ago
        Thanks, my mistake! I did misread it as China having a surplus of EV cars instead of ICE cars. Either way Africa is a tough market. But I think my point about a stable electric grid as a prerequisite for EV take-up still stands.
    - martin8412 3y ago
      They can't generate enough electricity because of corruption. When you have people actively sabotaging power generation, there are bigger concerns than the transition to EVs. If you attempt to transition the country to renewables, then you'll be killed.
esjeon 3y ago
BYD literally sold more cars than Tesla in 2022. [1] [1]: https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehic...
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Only if you include plug-in hybrids, which made up half their sales.
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    Why wouldn’t you include them?
    - vardump 3y ago
      They were talking about BEVs and plug-in hybrids aren't BEVs.
      - hedora 3y ago
        As I understand it, the BYD hybrids have an ICE engine as an afterthought, and the battery is the primary energy source. In contrast, most plug in hybrids in the US assume you’ll regularly turn the engine on in normal operation.
        papichulo4 3y ago
        Do you drive, or own a car?
        dominojab 3y ago
        [dead]
      - endisneigh 3y ago
        When you think about it the distinction is meaningless.
Symbiote 3y ago
Those are city share cars, bought by startup companies that went bust. Just like the mountains of bikes for short term bike rental.
Dalewyn 3y ago
As someone who's heard anti-Chinese propaganda noise for most of the past three decades, none of which ended up having any basis in reality because it's propaganda, yeah I'm filing that along with the rest.
- jpgvm 3y ago
  My favourite one is the ghost cities. Sure some are still under-populated/didn't work out as well as planned but by and large the pre-building of cities/districts has worked out well.
- biosboiii 3y ago
  Bro bro listen here, watch serpentzas newest video china will be bankrupt/starved/flooded in 2/3/5 days/months!!!!
jgalt212 3y ago
> China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, Like buildings in Ghost Cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...

resolutebat 3y ago

China has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Genuinely surprised they haven’t shipped them for sale to Africa. It’s where a lot of old combustion vehicles from Europe end up. Maybe not worth the effort?
- resolutebat 3y ago
  23 million cars were sold in China last year, and that figure was lower than usual because of COVID. https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.htm... Meanwhile, the number in all of Africa combined was 790,100. https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sales-in-africa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sal... I'm sure they'll ship some off to Africa if they can't find any other options, but as you say they're competing against used clunkers from Europe, so the margins will be terrible.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    Yeah, Africa has two problems: lack of money, and high import tariffs (usually in response to the lack of foreign currency).
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      and logistics -- outside of big coastal cities its a lot harder to move them inland in bulk.
- jbarham 3y ago
  Africa doesn't have the grid capacity to support a shift to electric vehicles. Right now South Africa (i.e., the richest country in Africa) has daily rolling power cuts (aka "load shedding") because they don't generate enough electricity for current demand, let alone for widespread EVs. The major advantage of liquid fuel compared to electricity is that it's easier to transport and store, and harder to steal, which is why I don't think EVs will see significant take up in the third world.
  - shlant 3y ago
    I think you may be confused about what you're responding to. As far as I understand, they are talking about ICE vehicles, not EVs: "China has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce."
    - jbarham 3y ago
      Thanks, my mistake! I did misread it as China having a surplus of EV cars instead of ICE cars. Either way Africa is a tough market. But I think my point about a stable electric grid as a prerequisite for EV take-up still stands.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    They can't generate enough electricity because of corruption. When you have people actively sabotaging power generation, there are bigger concerns than the transition to EVs. If you attempt to transition the country to renewables, then you'll be killed.

esjeon 3y ago

BYD literally sold more cars than Tesla in 2022. [1] [1]: https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehic...

resolutebat 3y ago
Only if you include plug-in hybrids, which made up half their sales.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  Why wouldn’t you include them?
  - vardump 3y ago
    They were talking about BEVs and plug-in hybrids aren't BEVs.
    - hedora 3y ago
      As I understand it, the BYD hybrids have an ICE engine as an afterthought, and the battery is the primary energy source. In contrast, most plug in hybrids in the US assume you’ll regularly turn the engine on in normal operation.
      - papichulo4 3y ago
        Do you drive, or own a car?
        dominojab 3y ago
        [dead]
    - endisneigh 3y ago
      When you think about it the distinction is meaningless.

Symbiote 3y ago

Those are city share cars, bought by startup companies that went bust. Just like the mountains of bikes for short term bike rental.

Dalewyn 3y ago

As someone who's heard anti-Chinese propaganda noise for most of the past three decades, none of which ended up having any basis in reality because it's propaganda, yeah I'm filing that along with the rest.

jpgvm 3y ago
My favourite one is the ghost cities. Sure some are still under-populated/didn't work out as well as planned but by and large the pre-building of cities/districts has worked out well.
biosboiii 3y ago
Bro bro listen here, watch serpentzas newest video china will be bankrupt/starved/flooded in 2/3/5 days/months!!!!

jgalt212 3y ago

> China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, Like buildings in Ghost Cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...