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BYD had an even better June: https://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2023/07/02/warren-buffett-backed-ev-maker-byds-sales-nearly-doubled-in-june/?sh=4b214e
by 7e 3y ago
BYD had an even better June: https://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2023/07/02/warren-buffett-backed-ev-maker-byds-sales-nearly-doubled-in-june/?sh=4b214e7d41bd https://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2023/07/02/warr.... It’s now on track to eclipse Tesla as the world’s biggest BEV manufacturer.
- bufferoverflow 3y agoDon't confuse production numbers with sales. China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, EVs in particular. That's why they have fields of rotting EVs that they can't sell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8 Notice how that Forbes article confuses sales with shipments. They aren't the same thing.
- resolutebat 3y agoChina has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoGenuinely surprised they haven’t shipped them for sale to Africa. It’s where a lot of old combustion vehicles from Europe end up. Maybe not worth the effort?
- resolutebat 3y ago23 million cars were sold in China last year, and that figure was lower than usual because of COVID. https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.htm... Meanwhile, the number in all of Africa combined was 790,100. https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sales-in-africa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/473598/passenger-car-sal... I'm sure they'll ship some off to Africa if they can't find any other options, but as you say they're competing against used clunkers from Europe, so the margins will be terrible.
- pjc50 3y agoYeah, Africa has two problems: lack of money, and high import tariffs (usually in response to the lack of foreign currency).
- red-iron-pine 3y agoand logistics -- outside of big coastal cities its a lot harder to move them inland in bulk.
- jbarham 3y agoAfrica doesn't have the grid capacity to support a shift to electric vehicles. Right now South Africa (i.e., the richest country in Africa) has daily rolling power cuts (aka "load shedding") because they don't generate enough electricity for current demand, let alone for widespread EVs. The major advantage of liquid fuel compared to electricity is that it's easier to transport and store, and harder to steal, which is why I don't think EVs will see significant take up in the third world.
- shlant 3y agoI think you may be confused about what you're responding to. As far as I understand, they are talking about ICE vehicles, not EVs: "China has a much larger problem with unsellable ICE vehicles which don't meet the new emission standards they're about to introduce."
- jbarham 3y agoThanks, my mistake! I did misread it as China having a surplus of EV cars instead of ICE cars. Either way Africa is a tough market. But I think my point about a stable electric grid as a prerequisite for EV take-up still stands.
- martin8412 3y agoThey can't generate enough electricity because of corruption. When you have people actively sabotaging power generation, there are bigger concerns than the transition to EVs. If you attempt to transition the country to renewables, then you'll be killed.
- esjeon 3y agoBYD literally sold more cars than Tesla in 2022. [1] [1]: https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehic...
- resolutebat 3y agoOnly if you include plug-in hybrids, which made up half their sales.
- endisneigh 3y agoWhy wouldn’t you include them?
- vardump 3y agoThey were talking about BEVs and plug-in hybrids aren't BEVs.
- hedora 3y agoAs I understand it, the BYD hybrids have an ICE engine as an afterthought, and the battery is the primary energy source. In contrast, most plug in hybrids in the US assume you’ll regularly turn the engine on in normal operation.
- papichulo4 3y agoDo you drive, or own a car?
- dominojab 3y ago[dead]
- endisneigh 3y agoWhen you think about it the distinction is meaningless.
- Symbiote 3y agoThose are city share cars, bought by startup companies that went bust. Just like the mountains of bikes for short term bike rental.
- Dalewyn 3y agoAs someone who's heard anti-Chinese propaganda noise for most of the past three decades, none of which ended up having any basis in reality because it's propaganda, yeah I'm filing that along with the rest.
- jpgvm 3y agoMy favourite one is the ghost cities. Sure some are still under-populated/didn't work out as well as planned but by and large the pre-building of cities/districts has worked out well.
- biosboiii 3y agoBro bro listen here, watch serpentzas newest video china will be bankrupt/starved/flooded in 2/3/5 days/months!!!!
- jgalt212 3y ago> China has a problem with overproduction in some areas, Like buildings in Ghost Cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...
- resolutebat 3y agoAlmost all of those sales are in China though. They're starting to enter Western markets and having some success, mostly by being the cheapest EVs around, but Tesla is still outselling them 4:1 in Australia despite steeper price tags.
- makeitdouble 3y agoInterestingly the majority of Tesla sales is also in China, US being second, EU being a distant third. Feels like at this point whoever takes the Chinese market gets the crown, and I suppose India will be next in this game.
- andy_ppp 3y agoIs Tesla's factory in china powered by coal like the car charging will be?
- parineum 3y agoGuess who's building nuclear power plants.
- andy_ppp 3y agoGuess who is also building more coal power plants!
- benj111 3y agoWould you like to show a calculation that shows a an ev 'powered by coal' is worse than petrol. How are you defining 'powered by coal', because China's energy mix isn't 100% coal either.
- andy_ppp 3y agoEven if the power stations were running on petrol it would be worse because of the inherently lossy nature of transferring power to the grid, across the grid, to the battery, from the battery, to motor(s) to the wheels. I'm not saying it's bad to move to electric vehicles just that it's not the wonderful win for global warming in China (or really anywhere else) right now and for the foreseeable future.
- sixQuarks 3y agoBYD sells a lot of cheap, golf cart like vehicles which get counted as sales
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIirc, they now also have a deal to supply Tesla with batteries at their Berlin's factory. They have also launched in Europe earlier this year, though I have not yet seen a BYD car on the road (UK).
- wallaBBB 3y agoQuite a few in the Netherlands
- mpol 3y agoFor reference, 462 BYD EVs have been sold in the Netherlands this year up to May. Last year were zero. Electric busses are driving around for years now (but not without issues). https://www.autoweek.nl/verkoopcijfers/2023/ https://www.autoweek.nl/verkoopcijfers/2023/
- alemanek 3y agoSure, but Teslas competition isn’t really BYD. The competition is EV vs ICE vehicles. BYDs product mix is more towards the low end although they do have a couple of models that compete head to head. There is plenty of room in the market for BYD and Tesla. For the next decade at least we won’t reach the saturation point for EVs. Remember it I will end up eating pretty much the entire ICE market barring some incredibly small niche segments. We are looking at 2035 or 2040 before EV players really start going head to head for the same slice of the pie instead of just growing the pie.
- SamuelAdams 3y agoCan confirm. My anecdotal (!) experience: recently went car shopping. The cheapest EV that I liked was the Mustang Mach E, about 56,000 USD and a 9-12 month wait time. I ended up going with a Mazda CX-5. Out the door price was around 36,000 USD and it was available that day. EV companies need to make cars that are affordable first. So far they only seem to target the luxury car market.
- mleo 3y agoI came across about 50 Mach E vehicles a couple of weeks back stored in unusual location, between a country club and upscale mall. Struck me as odd given the spot doesn’t generally get used for new vehicle storage and just the sheer number of them.
- aydyn 3y agoModel 3 can be had for under 30,000 in most places?
- SamuelAdams 3y agoReally? It starts at 52,000 USD for a new 2023 model, that’s not including taxes and other fees. Where are these mystical “under 30k” offers? Is it for a new or used model? My prices are all new, 2023 models.
- 3y ago